No Ship Interiors: - Oops!

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

What really scares me is the idea that we'll get one of those crafting mechanisms, or those point and click games.

Pick up your gun--it's in the locker--find the key---lock is rusted---find the oil---open the locker---part of gun is missing---find the rest---find workbench---you need spare parts---assemble---find ammo---eat--sleep--find your gun---

 

[Riverside]

What really scares me is the idea that we'll get one of those crafting mechanisms, or those point and click games.

Pick up your gun--it's in the locker--find the key---lock is rusted---find the oil---open the locker---part of gun is missing---find the rest---find workbench---you need spare parts---assemble---find ammo---eat--sleep--find your gun---

Have you tried the Guardian base unlocks?

 

[Leper Messiah]

What really scares me is the idea that we'll get one of those crafting mechanisms, or those point and click games.

Pick up your gun--it's in the locker--find the key---lock is rusted---find the oil---open the locker---part of gun is missing---find the rest---find workbench---you need spare parts---assemble---find ammo---eat--sleep--find your gun---

Yeah that wouldn't be good, although I do want common sense puzzling stuff, explore...find a log with info (password/pin), find another log with info/directions on where a cache is hidden, find cache, enter code, get goodies. Gettng that vibe from System Shock 1 at the mo.....no floating map markers telling me exactlhy where I need to go.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Have you tried the Guardian base unlocks?

You mean the puzzles to unlock the Guardian blueprints? If so, yes

Yeah that wouldn't be good, although I do want common sense puzzling stuff, explore...find a log with info (password/pin), find another log with info/directions on where a cache is hidden, find cache, enter code, get goodies. Gettng that vibe from System Shock 1 at the mo.....no floating map markers telling me exactlhy where I need to go.

That would be cool as part of a story thing, find a crashed ship, story begins, but not to get basics, a gun.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Thing is - in books and films & tv something happens once - you say wow, that was cool - and then it moves on. Things happen more often in games ...

Really? Shootouts with storm troopers happened only once?

I am less convinced that your ship breaking will be fun after the 100th time. And the time it is most likely to break is in combat - and that might be fun - or deadly. (Though in some ways it might allow ships to be rebalanced to make smaller ships competitive - if you have to run to the other end of your Corvette to fix the engines then the smaller downtime of an Eagle might be attractive. Unsure.).

Requires loads of new game work (NPC crew etc), and again I'm not sure if the 100th time will be as fun. Much as when people talk about boarding other ships, I'm not sure they're thinking about the hoard of gankers that will try to board them if they try to get to Founders.


Most of your argument is "Would it be fun after 100 times?". But cant you say that about everything? Many people don't like docking after the 100th time, or hyperspace jumping, or shooting at rocks, or pretty much anything the game offers. Having people invade your ship and having to defend it is a gameloop as least as engaging as most of those currently in-game. Whether you personally would enjoy it or not is something else of course.

To me, personally, walking around your ship in Mass Effect didn't get boring. In fact, it was the primary reason you felt like you actually were commander of a large space ship. Especially without VR flying a Corvette is hardly different from flying a Cobra MK IV. Walking through the corridors, seeing crewmembers walking around and such would make me believe a Corvette is not just a Cobra with different stats.

Agree on this - mostly I'm not convinced that things inside your own ship will be other than a time-sink, but the gameplay on other ships is endless and I'd really like it - if we get to wander our own ships as a side-effect then that's fine.

At the end of the day, aren't games in general a time-sink?

 

[Riverside]

You mean the puzzles to unlock the Guardian blueprints? If so, yes

And what did you think of those puzzles? I enjoyed figuring them out, although I thought the final 'drop the thing on the spot' mechanism was a bit obscure. Only did them 3-4 times though, and never solved the Ram Tah one or opened a Thargoid door.

If there are puzzles they will be at that sort of level of complexity I'd expect.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

And what did you think of those puzzles? I enjoyed figuring them out, although I thought the final 'drop the thing on the spot' mechanism was a bit obscure. Only did them 3-4 times though, and never solved the Ram Tah one or opened a Thargoid door.

If there are puzzles they will be at that sort of level of complexity I'd expect.

They were ok, I had to use help. I think I did solve the Ram Tah one, cant remember.

I agree, I guess, as I said above, I don't mind a complex puzzle (even if I need help though obviously I’d rather not) but not just for basic stuff. A gun. A spacesuit.

 

[Factabulous]

Really? Shootouts with storm troopers happened only once?

The same shootout happens once in the series - which is why you see escalation in later films. Ok, they killed 2 death stars, but in different ways. I know there will be some who say "Well, fdev should just write infinite scenarios" - don't be that guy

At the end of the day, aren't games in general a time-sink?

Hmm yeah - my wording was non-excellent I mean that when you want to do X and the game makes you do Y it's not often well received. Time-sinks you chose to do are one thing - time sinks that the game adds are often less well received.

How many times an hour do you want to have to go and get the repair kit because of a micro-meteorite strike? Once? ten times? Different people will have different limits. Most stuff in ED is opt-in (i.e. you can choose to visit a USS, take a mission etc - not much is forced on you*). It's a difficult balance - if you make people do something every 5 minutes then you can't do AFK Hutton runs, but if you make it once a day then people will get caught out (and presumably die).

Anyway - I was just pointing out Films & Books are not the same as Games - I look forward to your feedback after the 100th Stormtrooper Raid of the day looking for those damn droids

* Edit: The two interactions that are forced on you that come to mind are 1) interdictions and 2) mining pirates - both of which create constant complaint threads.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Thing is, as they haven't actually released any ships yet - the size of each of those slots hasn't been determined at all. They can just scale them based on the new situation.
Once they DO make ship interiors though - yeah, that's when they can no longer change ship modules (if they make all module SLOTS accessible, which it's possible they don't)

The minimum size of a slot is 2 cargo cannisters - we know how big those are.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Nothing personal, just taking this post as an example of a widely spread sentiment. In response I can only say I do not understand this question, not even remotely. Even if you personally couldn't think of anything, surely at some point in your life you must have watched a sci-fi movie or series, or read a sci-fi novel, in which something interesting happened inside a spaceship? I struggle to come up with a single spaceship-centered series or book where everything happens outside the spaceship.

Something may get damaged while flying, and you have to abandon the controls in a scramble to fix it in time. Maybe that alien species you were transporting in the hold broke loose. Maybe someone infiltrated your spaceship, maybe a crew member turns out to be a traitor. And that is just on your spaceship. What about finding spooky derelict ships in deep space? What happened to the crew? Is there still a danger? Maybe some alien lifeform, maybe something toxic? What about infiltrating a carrier with a stealth SLF?

For heck's sake; you can make an entire game about nothing but stuff happening inside spaceships. Whether FD will do any of it is a whole different question but we should really have moved beyond the question of 'what can happen inside a spaceship' quite literally half a century ago.

Well, my question was somewhat tongue-in-cheek - sure I can come up with fantastic ideas of stuff that could be added. There are two problems however:

1) many of those can only really be realised on the large ships; you need a certain amount of space
2) is Frontier capable to a) come up with fun gameplay loops that b) remain interesting and engaging after the initial playthrough

If I take NMS as an example where you can already walk about in your ship (well, not actually your ship, but your freighter) - despite the wider freedom that NMS allows compared to Elite, you're limited to press forward on your controller and left/right down the same old corridor to get to the bridge, where you ultimately just end up in Fleet Carrier-esque interfaces (sending your fleet on expeditions etc.) or a replicated version of base building in a large, empty room. Yawn.

Based on the gameplay loops we already have in Elite, and unless Frontier really push the envelope with Odyssey (I'd be delighted if they are) I just can't see something like boarding an enemy ship, with shoot outs on-board etc. happen. Look at Fleet Carriers - they don't even have a bridge view!

I also think (but again, happy to be proven wrong, and maybe the addition of space legs now opens up the currently limited shoot/scan/scoop interaction options) that mechanics that are added to make things that are already in the game more complicated might not be everyone's cup of tea either - right now I just click a button to refuel/repair my ship, if the game now asks me to hold X to repair the flux compensator and 5 other components that are on opposite sections of my Cutter and require a lot of dashing around the place (would be easier on the Sidey I imagine), and manually pick up and drag the fuel pipe towards the ship after embarking, not sure I'd want to do that after the 20th time.

It's a bit like the whole FSS discussion really - you can absolutely deepen gameplay and Elite is still full of placeholders, but it has to be fun, especially something that you'll end up doing regularly in the game. While I think the FSS is a step into the right direction, it does become quite a drag after a number of systems and you just go through the motions of resolving a system, as opposed to enjoying engaging with it.

And maybe that's what Frontier concluded also which is why they're most likely not going to be in the game, at least not until they delivered other parts that they deem more important to add at this point in time. Who knows.

 

[Leper Messiah]

That would be cool as part of a story thing, find a crashed ship, story begins, but not to get basics, a gun.

very true, then again I can't see FD doing much of a "story" seeng as it's more of an "action" MMO rather than an RPG MMO with stories and quests like in ESO.

 

[Drelthar]

Something may get damaged while flying, and you have to abandon the controls in a scramble to fix it in time. Maybe that alien species you were transporting in the hold broke loose. Maybe someone infiltrated your spaceship, maybe a crew member turns out to be a traitor. And that is just on your spaceship.

The trouble with these scenarios is - the current game doesn't have these events (it can't, you can't leave your seat)
Adding these event's is indeed possible.

However, as they have chosen to make modular, optional expansion packs....

Well, it starts to fall apart - you can't add this kind of awesome stuff, because only the people with the expansion pack have this happen - meaning the people with the expansion pack, get COOL stuff (that makes their lives harder!!.... hmm..)

This is the problem with the (in my opinion) hideous plan of making expansion packs optional in a game world/server where everyone can be in the same world, with different "stuff"

You can't design things to fit together - everything has to be designed in isolation.

Bad.

What about finding spooky derelict ships in deep space? What happened to the crew? Is there still a danger? Maybe some alien lifeform, maybe something toxic? What about infiltrating a carrier with a stealth SLF?

These could be done - people without the expansion just can;t enter these areas - but it doesn't link back into the "main" game - so it's ok, kinda like planet surfaces.

 

[Drelthar]

The minimum size of a slot is 2 cargo cannisters - we know how big those are.

If that is a problem to fit with current ship sizes, then yeah, that's a potential problem - unless you introduce some kind of special compacting technology hand wavium.

Anyone worked out if you can fit all the cargo containers into the volume of (some... not sure which...) ships?

 

[CMDR Davanix]

New video from Yamiks: -

[Link removed due to content breaking numerous forum rules]

Cat out of bag?

Oh look they removed the video link for "breaking numerous forum rules" didnt know a link breaks rules of a streamer that streams and knows your game more than you do Fdev

 

[thistle]

Oh look they removed the video link for "breaking numerous forum rules" didnt know a link breaks rules of a streamer that streams and knows your game more than you do Fdev

I thought it was a link to a Yamiks video?

(boom tish.)

 

[CMDR Davanix]

I thought it was a link to a Yamiks video?

(boom tish.)

It was...just a link to a video about their game and they dont like opinions of people who give them free advertisements or peopel who frankly say the truth of what isnt coming 6 years inot a 10 year development lackluster that is missing 80% of the things they said they where putting into....Instead they promote their other games and releases on the Elite social hubs misleading and not communicating about the game topic they where established for...but you know...thats fdev at this stage..

 

[Gortron]

The only little bit of joy I get from this whole debacle is Yamiks couldn't care less about VR being ditched and now his favourite thing (FPS) isn't going to include spaceship interiors. Too funny really when you think about it. VR people are having the way they play removed and the people that aren't interested in VR aren't getting what they thought they were.

 

[CMDR Davanix]

The only little bit of joy I get from this whole debacle is Yamiks couldn't care less about VR being ditched and now his favourite thing (FPS) isn't going to include spaceship interiors. Too funny really when you think about it. VR people are having the way they play removed and the people that aren't interested in VR aren't getting what they thought they were.

To be honest i dont think anybodys getting anything but a walking srv with a handheld comp scanner and a pretty skybox, the way their peer to peer and current Arena gameplay is i cant see much pvp coming out of it either, I mean nobody knows really however thats the issue communication is getting worse

 

[Virgile]

They could still annouce nice things :locations, how we interact with Npc's, New types of missions ....etc

 

[Gortron]

To be honest i dont think anybodys getting anything but a walking srv with a handheld comp scanner and a pretty skybox, the way their peer to peer and current Arena gameplay is i cant see much pvp coming out of it either, I mean nobody knows really however thats the issue communication is getting worse

I agree. That's what I've never understood about 'Space legs'. It is just going to be a slower way of moving around a planet. There will probably be some new POIs that are basically the same thing as normal but you can only interact with (scan or shoot at) on foot. People are speculating about 'caves' and all sorts of exciting things. No, it will be POI's where you move slower