No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

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Well, even when this has told again and again.

If there was an agenda (production targets FD would wanted to reach on all cost), then they should only have included this points as the will made features. For the offline mode, they stated aswell it will be made and answered this to many customers. Becasue of this, the offline mode should have been included in this agenda aswell. When it wasn't important for them, what we actually had to witness, it should have only been written as an might be feature or completly cut from the feature list.
But having the vision and writing features who aren't in the vision and would only made, if it literaly falls into place is absolutly wrong.

I aswell have written an mail for a parcial refund, if the game wouldn't include an offline mode after all, even not in the future. If they develop one, even as an priced addon, i wouldn't want an refund, because for my case, i would get it with my lifetime. But it wouldn't be okay for peoples not having one. So if such peoples want a full refund, even when they have beta they should get one.
Actually a very bad situation, because we don't know if there would be one. If i get the refund and after an year the offline mode would show up then, i would be most likely not very happy about the refund. But if i don't get an refund and the mode wouldn't ever get developed, i would feel betrayed.

Of course i would still hope, that FD would change their mind. Because a offline game and an online game are real large differences and not some minor differences. Beeing able to pause, save do what i want with the gameworld, possible mod the gameworld and be able to test around in it, without interference with an online world and doesn't have affected other player or beeing affected by other player are large differences for me. One of the reason i was looking for an offline mode.
I am actually have an internet, who is most time stable and working fine (even when there are some days from time to time, where it makes problem from time to time). But there are how mentioned peoples with bad intenet and even no internet and they pledged for it, to get a game they can play offline. We don't know exactly how large the number is. Many think its a minority, but we should take into account that peoples who don't want to be part of an internet community and want to play offline, or only can play offline wouldn't be in a forum like this with a way higher probability, as peoples wo enjoy and bought Elite only for the online mode. So if we have way more votes for "its okay how it is" as "we want the offline mode back", then it doesn't automaticly means, that there are more peoples out there who are okay with it, as peoples wanting an offline mode.

It was similar for me aswell. I am not native english and aswell i am more the introverted guy. For some time, i was so shy even regarding forums, that i never posted there and only read, even when it was an german (my motherlanguage) forum. A english forum, where i have to write, like in this forum would be a complete no go for me.
I remember, that i have read in the first forum for month, until i finally got so much courage together to finally write there. Ok, i became a part of the community then very fast. For the english forum, it was way more difficult. Got into a community where german speaking and peoples with other languages where together and tried to avoid the other languages and peoples how much as possible because i feared to write in this languages. But after i got some times directly into english speaking peoples and some of them even tried to become friends with me lead, that i slowly lost my fear about english languages and that finally lead aswell to the point, where i joined even english forums like this.

This story is not to entertain peoples, but it should show the situation some peoples are in. Yes it aswell shows, that aswell introverted peoples can become part of an online community. But many peoples who actually prefer offline and are introvertated and shy would make a large bow around this forum. And i am in doubt, that such peoples would be happy with an single player online mode, where their actions will interference with the online world. How written, you are still a part of it, even when you don't see other player. You have your own instance, but you are still part of the online world. And thats another problem. And such peoples aren't here in the forum. (No, i am not anymore one of this peoples :p)

Another problem is, peoples with bad internet can't post very often here, if they only have one by friends or have to drive long ways to get online, they can't write every few minutes.

The conclusion is, that many peoples hoping for an offline mode or don't want to take part in the online mode, wouldn't be here in the forum after all.
 
This was just posted on KS & www.gamespot.com

"So the Gamma gets released and guess what - the servers crash ! Game unplayable ! So much for reliability eh Braben ! Prime example of why we wanted the offline game you promised you would release when you took our money. But what do you care, you've got your retirement plan in place now eh. Ian Bell was spot on about your character !"

Somehow "I told you so" just doesn't quite say it.

Have off-line mode for exactly type this of problem would have been great... peeps can transfer there and play.
 
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When I first learnt that offline was dropped, I wasn't that bothered, I didn't think it was such a big deal. I could understand why some backers felt betrayed - I wasn't one of them - but I could understand it. That's not what my post is about.
The thing is, for some sad reason, when I woke up this morning I was thinking about this subject and it struck me why - in my case - having no offline mode will detract from my experience of the game. Of course, this is very subjective and I imagine that I am in the minority here.
Like many of us, I played the game from its release and enjoyed many hours learning to fly, fight & trade. I never forgot the game - it remained a firm favourite and, during the last 15 years or so, every now and then I would Yahoo or Google "Elite relaunch" or similar until, one day, I came across the Kickstarter and became a backer.
To me, this has always been much more than a space flight & fight sim - it's an adventure. It's escapism.
These days, unfortunately, I don't have the time to play that I did in the 80s. But I still want to escape - when I can - into Elite Dangerous. Realistically, this will probably be once a week, for an hour or so at a time.
The problem - in fact I would go as far as to say, the flaw - with an online only version of Elite, for regular but once-a-week players such as myself, is that the Universe will continue to evolve while I'm away. That's not what I want. I want to play this Sunday for an hour or so. In my imaginary Elite world I want it to be 15h00 on the 23rd Novembrulia 3300 AD. I want to be able to play for an hour and come back the next weekend where, in my imaginary universe, I can pick up at 16h00 where I left off.
But that won't happen. The cargo that I bought may have devalued during my week away; maybe the peaceful station that I docked in has become a warzone.
Now, some may argue that this is realistic - all this can happen in a week. And they're correct - in the real world it can. But for me, the essence of Elite was the pure escapism, a place to build my own adventure; an escape from the "always on, always connected" life. Without an offline mode, some of that magical essence of the original, 80s version has been lost in my eyes.
Notwithstanding the above, FD have built an amazing thing - a truly beautiful place to be and what I am sure will be a fascinating, involving & fun experience. I'm looking forward to my little one hour sessions and hoping the Universe won't change too much around me while I'm away.
See you out there.
 
I have no problem believing that.

But wouldn't you say that this whole "archived server" thing could double as an "offline server" function? A game where the universe doesn't change? So if that's a feature to be added going forward, could it not be repurposed for those of us who prefer a "static" world?

Because releasing the archive is a fallback if things go completely belly up and the official server has to be shut down. It would wreck any control over hacking, and expose all hidden secrets and underlying mechanics right away.

Surely you aren't asking them to just turn over the keys to the Galaxy to satisfy the demand for a single player version? If you are, it will not happen.
 
Just posted on KS & www.gamespot.com

"So the Gamma gets released and guess what - the servers crash ! Game unplayable ! So much for reliability eh Braben ! Prime example of why we wanted the offline game you promised you would release when you took our money. But what do you care, you've got your retirement plan in place now eh. Ian Bell was spot on about your character !"

Somehow "I told you so" just doesn't quite say it.

Have off-line mode for exactly type this of problem would have been great... peeps can transfer there and play.

Playing fine here.....No issues so far ??
 
Having said that, is this thread still open for debate? Correct me if I'm wrong (it is entirely possible that I may have misinterpreted) but from what you said, it sounds like we're not allowed to disagree any more. I appreciate the fact that moderators have been working extra shifts to keep this under control for the past week, but to adopt a "positive things only" policy sounds like a diplomatic attempt to kill the thread.

To be clear: discussing the actions of Frontier Development is understandable and acceptable - whether you believe they lied to get your money or they shot for the stars and only reached the moon. It's part of their job to take criticism, and they don't need any of us defending their honour.

Negative comments about other community members that happen to disagree with you are not acceptable. These things always feel justified when we believe we're in the right, but things always read worse in a text box than in your brain, so now is the time for us all to spell out the love we all have for each other (which I'm encouraged to see starting). Here's one from me...

Frontier's behaviour has hurt a lot of people, and the ongoing discussion has often been about people on all sides expressing their shock, sorrow, and pain. I (and all the mods) absorb that pain in a surprisingly visceral way when we have to step into a conversation, which can come across as being heartless or attempting to stifle one position or other. Please accept my apologies if our actions have caused you further sorrow - we sometimes have to break an arbitrary point in a vicious circle, which can mask the utmost empathy we have for your position.

Huge thanks to those that have already sought to heal the wounds between parts of the community. Those that have yet to reach out to fellow forumites they disagree with still have a little time, but those that can't bring themselves to it should click Thread Tools > Unsubscribe from this Thread before we really have to get strict about removing off-topic posts.
 
No issues at all? *Nice* I chose not to play it as I have requested a refund but I'm glad to hear that not everyone is crashing. Have you experienced any "stutter approach stations in fsd" yet? I am curious how you were able to connect to the server whey other people where not... that is interesting!

Playing fine here.....No issues so far ??
 
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Because releasing the archive is a fallback if things go completely belly up and the official server has to be shut down"

leaving aside the technical questions that arise or whether it still fulfils the definition of an offline single player game, the fundamental flaw with that proposal is that, if things go "completely belly up and the official server has to be shut down! then david braben, michael brookes, or anybody else at FDEV for that matter, may well not be in a (legal/financial etc etc) position to implement that plan! therefore it's a completely unsatisfactory response to the failure/lack of will/vision decision (take your pick as to which we each seem to have our own) to deliver the promised single player offline version of the game.
 
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Just posted on KS & www.gamespot.com

"So the Gamma gets released and guess what - the servers crash ! Game unplayable ! So much for reliability eh Braben ! Prime example of why we wanted the offline game you promised you would release when you took our money. But what do you care, you've got your retirement plan in place now eh. Ian Bell was spot on about your character !"

Somehow "I told you so" just doesn't quite say it.

Have off-line mode for exactly type this of problem would have been great... peeps can transfer there and play.

Thing is, in the current climate I would give 50/50 or worse odds on DDOS sabotage :/

Also servers can get overwhelmed distributing copies for off-line games as well. Some hickups at launch is not just an MMO problem.

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leaving aside the technical questions that arise or whether it still fulfils the definition of an offline single player game, the fundamental flaw with that proposal is that, if things go "completely belly up and the official server has to be shut down! then david braben, michael brookes, or anybody else at FDEV for that matter, may well not be in a (legal/financial etc etc) position to implement that! therefore it's a completely unsatisfactory response to the failure/lack of will to deliver the promised single player offline version of the game.

FD has been around for 20 years, and released 22 games last I checked. With Belly Up I didn't mean a sudden meteor strike or unforseen bankruptcy, but it turning out that the cash flow equation on ED just doesn't work. The company is not going to fold suddenly.
 
No issues at all? *Nice* I chose not to play it as I have requested a refund but I'm glad to hear that not everyone is crashing. Have you experienced any "stutter approach stations in fsd" yet? I am curious how you were able to connect to the server whey other people where not... that is interesting!

I have had some very slight stutters but so far no total disconnections..... That's not to say anyone else hasn't..
So far all is great ... I am playing in window mode so I can jump between game and forum ...The forums a bit slower than usual though ..
 
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But how many of those 22 games where 100% on-line ? :) ... just kidding . They are probably being DDOS as well, but this is just another reason to have off-line, even though I prefer the on-line option.
 
I have had some very slight stutters but so far no total disconnections..... That's not to say anyone else hasn't..
So far all is great ... I am playing in window mode so I can jump between game and forum ...The forums a bit slower than usual though ..

Nice... kill some pirates for us and keep your shield charged! :)

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But how many of those 22 games where 100% on-line ? :) ... just kidding . They are probably being DDOS as well, but this is just another reason to have off-line, even though I prefer the on-line option.

It sad that they waited that long before sneaking in that there will not be an "offline mode" also it is sad the way they handled or more correctly didn't handle the refunds.

I still would have loved to see an off-mode added... no ADS, no calling home, just me the space, 50 or so missions, trade, pirates... etc!

You never know ... if the game was that great i am sure i would have tried the multiplayer mode. Who knows this could have been the game that got me from single player to world of online-multiplayer... *shocking* i know.
 
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When I first learnt that offline was dropped, I wasn't that bothered, I didn't think it was such a big deal. I could understand why some backers felt betrayed - I wasn't one of them - but I could understand it. That's not what my post is about.
The thing is, for some sad reason, when I woke up this morning I was thinking about this subject and it struck me why - in my case - having no offline mode will detract from my experience of the game. Of course, this is very subjective and I imagine that I am in the minority here.
Like many of us, I played the game from its release and enjoyed many hours learning to fly, fight & trade. I never forgot the game - it remained a firm favourite and, during the last 15 years or so, every now and then I would Yahoo or Google "Elite relaunch" or similar until, one day, I came across the Kickstarter and became a backer.
To me, this has always been much more than a space flight & fight sim - it's an adventure. It's escapism.
These days, unfortunately, I don't have the time to play that I did in the 80s. But I still want to escape - when I can - into Elite Dangerous. Realistically, this will probably be once a week, for an hour or so at a time.
The problem - in fact I would go as far as to say, the flaw - with an online only version of Elite, for regular but once-a-week players such as myself, is that the Universe will continue to evolve while I'm away. That's not what I want. I want to play this Sunday for an hour or so. In my imaginary Elite world I want it to be 15h00 on the 23rd Novembrulia 3300 AD. I want to be able to play for an hour and come back the next weekend where, in my imaginary universe, I can pick up at 16h00 where I left off.
But that won't happen. The cargo that I bought may have devalued during my week away; maybe the peaceful station that I docked in has become a warzone.
Now, some may argue that this is realistic - all this can happen in a week. And they're correct - in the real world it can. But for me, the essence of Elite was the pure escapism, a place to build my own adventure; an escape from the "always on, always connected" life. Without an offline mode, some of that magical essence of the original, 80s version has been lost in my eyes.
Notwithstanding the above, FD have built an amazing thing - a truly beautiful place to be and what I am sure will be a fascinating, involving & fun experience. I'm looking forward to my little one hour sessions and hoping the Universe won't change too much around me while I'm away.
See you out there.

One of the many negatives with an online Elite has suddenly dawned on you. Hopefully the rest of the many negatives will soon follow suit. The greatest of which is this: one day, sooner or later and yes, probably later, you'll load your game and it won't work because for reasons a, b and/or c, FD no longer hosts any servers (Despite their claim that they'll "release" the server code if that should happen---a very flimsy promise made in the heat of a controversy by proven liars).

So the game you dreamed of for 15 years will be gone forever, all because a bean counter somewhere decided that it's not financially viable to keep you playing. Let that reality sink in for a moment.
 

Vlodec

Banned
When I first learnt that offline was dropped, I wasn't that bothered, I didn't think it was such a big deal. I could understand why some backers felt betrayed - I wasn't one of them - but I could understand it. That's not what my post is about.
The thing is, for some sad reason, when I woke up this morning I was thinking about this subject and it struck me why - in my case - having no offline mode will detract from my experience of the game. Of course, this is very subjective and I imagine that I am in the minority here.
Like many of us, I played the game from its release and enjoyed many hours learning to fly, fight & trade. I never forgot the game - it remained a firm favourite and, during the last 15 years or so, every now and then I would Yahoo or Google "Elite relaunch" or similar until, one day, I came across the Kickstarter and became a backer.
To me, this has always been much more than a space flight & fight sim - it's an adventure. It's escapism.
These days, unfortunately, I don't have the time to play that I did in the 80s. But I still want to escape - when I can - into Elite Dangerous. Realistically, this will probably be once a week, for an hour or so at a time.
The problem - in fact I would go as far as to say, the flaw - with an online only version of Elite, for regular but once-a-week players such as myself, is that the Universe will continue to evolve while I'm away. That's not what I want. I want to play this Sunday for an hour or so. In my imaginary Elite world I want it to be 15h00 on the 23rd Novembrulia 3300 AD. I want to be able to play for an hour and come back the next weekend where, in my imaginary universe, I can pick up at 16h00 where I left off.
But that won't happen. The cargo that I bought may have devalued during my week away; maybe the peaceful station that I docked in has become a warzone.
Now, some may argue that this is realistic - all this can happen in a week. And they're correct - in the real world it can. But for me, the essence of Elite was the pure escapism, a place to build my own adventure; an escape from the "always on, always connected" life. Without an offline mode, some of that magical essence of the original, 80s version has been lost in my eyes.
Notwithstanding the above, FD have built an amazing thing - a truly beautiful place to be and what I am sure will be a fascinating, involving & fun experience. I'm looking forward to my little one hour sessions and hoping the Universe won't change too much around me while I'm away.
See you out there.

Bravo. Although quite a long post I've reprinted it in full because it's so true. Have some +rep.

Thing is, in the current climate I would give 50/50 or worse odds on DDOS sabotage :/

That would be yet another disadvantage of online games. DDOS, in its nature, doesn't happen offline.
 
Bravo. Although quite a long post I've reprinted it in full because it's so true. Have some +rep.


That would be yet another disadvantage of online games. DDOS, in its nature, doesn't happen offline.

I agree with your easy fix to fix this problem... go/code offline! ;)
 
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Thing is, in the current climate I would give 50/50 or worse odds on DDOS sabotage :/

Also servers can get overwhelmed distributing copies for off-line games as well. Some hickups at launch is not just an MMO problem.

Amazon's cloud can't be DDOS'd in the traditional sense of the word, as for the galaxy servers, that's a bit more of a mix and match, but I'm not sure that's a single point of failure (you could DDOS FDEV's network if you've got their points of entry to be sure, but if they've put the galaxy server inside the obvious places that's a bit silly too). If they used the same server cluster for distributing the offline copies as they did for managing login and galaxy servers then that's -really- bad server architecture. Download servers are always put elsewhere to ease the load on login and game traffic.

As a correctional note, this isn't launch, this is gamma. Launch is December the 16th. So if you're seeing issues now, the problems will be magnified by orders of magnitude in December.
 
Valid point TFT,

Hopefully they will get it fixed by December... issues are to be expected. it would be nice to see them change their mind and divert X amount of resources to Offline mode.



Amazon's cloud can't be DDOS'd in the traditional sense of the word, as for the galaxy servers, that's a bit more of a mix and match, but I'm not sure that's a single point of failure (you could DDOS FDEV's network if you've got their points of entry to be sure, but if they've put the galaxy server inside the obvious places that's a bit silly too). If they used the same server cluster for distributing the offline copies as they did for managing login and galaxy servers then that's -really- bad server architecture. Download servers are always put elsewhere to ease the load on login and game traffic.

As a correctional note, this isn't launch, this is gamma. Launch is December the 16th. So if you're seeing issues now, the problems will be magnified by orders of magnitude in December.
 

Zorro

Banned
If it was up to me, I'd lock this thread and leave the last post from MB as the final remark. Those who just categorically won't believe him will not change their tune, and we'll just keep going in circles.

Well excuse me but aren't you part of the circle? How many posts have you posted so far? Are you going to post more, and in this way continue the circle?

In all forums people say "close this thread". Why? If you don't care for it what are you doing here? Simple solution, leave and never come back. Obvious really.

With respect to this particular thread, don't you understand that for FD to close it would be just as big a PR disaster as the one which initiated it?
 
Well excuse me but aren't you part of the circle? How many posts have you posted so far? Are you going to post more, and in this way continue the circle?

In all forums people say "close this thread". Why? If you don't care for it what are you doing here? Simple solution, leave and never come back. Obvious really.

With respect to this particular thread, don't you understand that for FD to close it would be just as big a PR disaster as the one which initiated it?


Spot on fella, I thought the same :) Seems logic is a bit thin on the ground in some parts :)
 
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