No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

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Edit: I've had my post redirected here so I'll just drop it into the maelstrom and see what comes out :)

Hello there,


I've been a backer for Elite Dangerous for a few months now and as a life long fan of the games it's so amazing to see this game being reborn with modern day game tech.


I wanted to write an open letter to David Braben and his team, supporting your game but more notably offering my support for the recent change to the games inclusion of an offline mode. I have been horrified by how such a small change to the game could turn so bitter. The official forums for this game up until these last weeks have really reflected a more mature and pleasant type of gamer, sure there are a few characters but it's such a good group. It's upsetting then to see a small percentage of this community attack the developers with such relentless bitterness. I felt like it was important someone show there are many who still fully support this game (starting with the hundreds of members in my own gaming community) and the incredible places it will go.

The development of a game is no set thing, often a game will barely resemble the original concept with features being added as well as some that don't work dropped. I would argue that this game is one of the most ambitious games I've ever seen attempted, the team are literally creating am entire working galaxy.. that in itself deserves an award. I would also argue that when the team set off making this game they clearly did think an offline mode would be possible. However as they work on the games meta systems it has become clear an offline mode would severely dull the game and as such they had to make the decision to drop that part (the only course of action any good developer would make). I struggle to see how this is something they should have to say sorry for, as the game has developed it's become apparent an offline mode can't work with what they are trying to accomplish. This is not going back on commitments, this is not betraying the backers. A game this complicated absolutely must be in a constant state of self assessment as new systems come online.

This notion feeds into my next point, when you back any project (not just games) unless you have a legal contract stating otherwise your cash is none refundable. Lots of people are talking about getting their money back or even pursuing legal action. It's a gift of faith that the people you are giving the money to will make a product you believe in. It's not what some clearly think it is, a stick to pull on when things don't develop exactly as you want. In my opinion FD have made an incredible game which already is like nothing out there. You just have to meet David or watch one of his dev diaries, you can see up he's such a humble, lovely bloke with a dream of making this game for us. This is why I've been frankly embarrassed this last week by the way which a small percentage of my fellow gamers have turned on him and made a huge fuss over something that while sad isn't something the team could have known at the start.

I do sympathise with early backers, I know a game totally independent of the internet was an important feature which appealed to many. However as I've stated above, the people acting like they've been betrayed need to remember how a game develops and that sometimes an end product does have to differ from the original design. That's why games are developed and don't just appear (although COD might do that) :)

Let's move forwards guys, we are so close the release now. This game is going to be incredible and the best thing we can do is play as much as we can and pour our constructive feedback onto these forums.


Best regards,
Genophix.

Nicely put! Thanks for taking the time to add your perspective and a dose of reason to this blown out fiasco.
 
Valid point TFT,

Hopefully they will get it fixed by December... issues are to be expected. it would be nice to see them change their mind and divert X amount of resources to Offline mode.

Even if they don't, if Gamma is proving shaky now, people best be prepared for the inevitable on the 16th. Lots of lag, lots of disconnects, lots of failed logins. Ahhhh, the joys of MMOs. Except this has a singleplayer mode doesn't it... *twitch*
 
Correct... I heavily caution anyone from locking these type of threads because the last thing you need is people not having somewhere to express their frustrations. This is still limited only to ELITE supporters (we agree we are all supporters - happy or unhappy makes no difference).

If you lock it... people will post and exhibit their frustrations in other place. (amazon,game reviews,facebook,etc,etc). As badly as FD has handled this situation I believe they are going to be open minded since their stock took a solid hit.

So hopefully they will at least refund those who are unhappy with "The Vision" and direction FD is taking ED in or hopefully surprises us with something more!

I don't want to hear anyone saying that Papa Smurf is not being positive! ;)



Well excuse me but aren't you part of the circle? How many posts have you posted so far? Are you going to post more, and in this way continue the circle?

In all forums people say "close this thread". Why? If you don't care for it what are you doing here? Simple solution, leave and never come back. Obvious really.

With respect to this particular thread, don't you understand that for FD to close it would be just as big a PR disaster as the one which initiated it?
 
Valid point TFT,

Hopefully they will get it fixed by December... issues are to be expected. it would be nice to see them change their mind and divert X amount of resources to Offline mode.

I really dont think that will happen, its more profitable for them to target the small minority of online players who spend large amounts on fluff and M/T's....Its the easiest way to turn a profit.
 
I would like to agree with you but it is very obvious that you didn't read any of the posts posted here... so I will not. If you take to read all the positive and negative posts I believe it will give you more then a good enough background of why people are unhappy and why they should be given their money back! (offline mode is why this project was successful on Kickstart - don't believe me - go back to December 11, 2012 and see how many posts are about off-line mode)

Cheers,



Nicely put! Thanks for taking the time to add your perspective and a dose of reason to this blown out fiasco.

Quote Originally Posted by Genophix View Post
Edit: I've had my post redirected here so I'll just drop it into the maelstrom and see what comes out

Hello there,


I've been a backer for Elite Dangerous for a few months now and as a life long fan of the games it's so amazing to see this game being reborn with modern day game tech.


I wanted to write an open letter to David Braben and his team, supporting your game but more notably offering my support for the recent change to the games inclusion of an offline mode. I have been horrified by how such a small change to the game could turn so bitter.

etc..etc..etc.

Let's move forwards guys, we are so close the release now. This game is going to be incredible and the best thing we can do is play as much as we can and pour our constructive feedback onto these forums.


Best regards,
Genophix.
Nicely put! Thanks for taking the time to add your perspective and a dose of reason to this blown out fiasco.
 
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I really dont think that will happen, its more profitable for them to target the small minority of online players who spend large amounts on fluff and M/T's....Its the easiest way to turn a profit.

Whaling? Oh that's cynical, even for me. I'm not sure FDEV have quite gone the route of Zynga yet :D
 
I really dont think that will happen, its more profitable for them to target the small minority of online players who spend large amounts on fluff and M/T's....Its the easiest way to turn a profit.

I am thinking you are right but few more days is what I am going to give them before I reach out to Kickstarter, CC, Online Reviews, Facebook, etc, etc, etc.
 
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I am thinking you are right but few more days is what I am going to give them before I reach out to Kickstarter, CC, Online Reviews, Facebook, etc, etc, etc.

I agree mate, already penciled in the facebook page and drafted a couple of e-mails ready to fire off IF they dont sort it soon.
 
See, THAT sort of reply is why people are so miffed with FD...This was YOUR mess, readily admitted by YOU! Yet you treat disgruntled customers like the proverbial ginger step-child :) I KNOW its approaching launch, I couldnt really miss it could I? So what you are saying is that customer satisfaction is so low on your list of priorities that you will not get people in to put right the mess you created.....way to inspire good will :) Seriously though, thats really bad business practice.

So be miffed. This refund issue is not the number one thing going on right now for a company launching a game.

I know you feel that you are extremely important but so do all the paying and go-forward customers. Get in line.

And "bad business practices" and "customer satisfaction?" That's silly. Since you want a refund, you're no longer a customer unlike the vast majority of backers that are excited about this weekend and the upcoming launch. You're just not the priority at this very single moment in life. And as for bad business practices, ever wonder why they have multiple cashiers at the checkout lines of any stores and but there's only one or two people working the return line which is almost to the door? That is STANDARD businesses practices.

Talk about the definition of entitlement...
 

comment removed by me,

because it seems asking somebody why they've said something classes as an inflammatory post!
so we should only reply to people we agree with?
 
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Von Demon,

This may be a STANDARD businesses practice where you live BUT it is not a STANDARD business practice where I live. You don't do this to your supporters, fans, and backers. Again ALL of this could have been avoided months ago if they approached 45,000 supporters and asked them HOW they FEEL about the UPCOMING changes. Refunds would have been EASY. Their STOCKS would have not suffered, etc, etc, etc. They didn't do this...Did they?

You think it would have been smart to have people working overtime and dealing with issue over the weekend? Not sure if you noticed when Google Elite - Them handling refund issue is at the top of the list. (Important?)

I am no business major but if there is only few peeps who have requested a refund it could have been done by Monday.

HR & Costumer Service Department has nothing to do with opening game weekend.

So why do you think they are handling it this way? I would love to hear your opinion.

Cheers,





So be miffed. This refund issue is not the number one thing going on right now for a company launching a game.

I know you feel that you are extremely important but so do all the paying and go-forward customers. Get in line.

And "bad business practices" and "customer satisfaction?" That's silly. Since you want a refund, you're no longer a customer unlike the vast majority of backers that are excited about this weekend and the upcoming launch. You're just not the priority at this very single moment in life. And as for bad business practices, ever wonder why they have multiple cashiers at the checkout lines of any stores and but there's only one or two people working the return line which is almost to the door? That is STANDARD businesses practices.

Talk about the definition of entitlement...
 
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Von Demon,

This may be a STANDARD businesses practice where you live BUT it is not a STANDARD business practice where I live. You don't do this to your supporters, fans, and backers. Again ALL of this could have been avoided if months ago they approached 45,000 supporters and asked them HOW they FEEL about the UPCOMING changes. Refunds would have been EASY. Their STOCKS would have not suffered, etc, etc, etc. They didn't do this...Did they?

You think it would have been smart to have people working overtime and dealing with issue over the weekend? Not sure if you noticed when Google Elite - Them handling refund issue is at the top of the list. (Important?)

I am no business major but if there is only few peeps who have requested a refund it could have been done by Monday.

HR & Costumer Service Department has nothing to do with opening game weekend.

So why do you think they are handling it this way? I would love to hear your opinion.

Cheers,

But you are not a supporter and you don't want to be a backer. Launching a game>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you. Sorry but you are just not that important.
 
Again and again and again! :)

It would really pay off to read the 10,000+ post before you post 1500. (you may learn something)

I didn't create this mess! So you turning your angry against a wrong person. We can all agree that FD majorly screwed up. I donated money to get the game going even when there was no talk off DRM-free & off-line mode as I believed in the Elite project/dream.

I donated even more when they told me they are going to make an off-line mode & DRM-free game.

So I had no issue in opening my wallet to help them when they asked... I expect the same thing and not them dragging their feet. I'm wrong here?

It is not my fault that they chose to do this before "GAME OPENING". It is not my fault that they chose to remove offline mode. It is not my fault that they chose not have promised things in their "VISION"

Hire people to come on Saturday/Sunday to work overtime to fix the problem YOU (FD) created *. To me this sounds reasonable? Does this sound reasonable to you?

Or you just going to tell me that I am not important and that I should go away?!? :)

____ LETS REVIEW HOW THIS PLAYED OUT:

phase 1:
-FDs : support us , we are planning multiplayer along with offline experience

phase 2:
-FDs : thanks for the support, multiplayer experience is really cool and exciting

phase 3:
-FDs : game is soon to be released. BTW, we scrapped offline mode but multiplayer experience is really cool and exciting

phase 4:
- offline community: Why? You have promised us offline mode, we have paid for it!
-FDs : offline is not good for you and is not making us happy. It was so "tough" decision for us but we have to cut something out and multiplayer experience is so exciting. Why are you not excited?!
- online community: We got what we wanted, so shut up

phase 5:
- offline community: we feel betrayed and can not enjoy the multiplayer for various reasons. Can we get the explanation and refund
-FDs : we'll pretend nothing is happening
- online community: Take the refund and shut up! You are ruining the game!

phase 6:
- offline community: can we get some answers on refunding and why offline mode was abandoned?
-FDs : It was a tough decision. But details are very secret. What is done is done! anyway, offline mode might work if we want it to work... maybe when servers are not going to be profitable any more. ofcourse, we'll give you a refund. Now, let's talk about new anaconda skins and how exciting multiplayer is!
- online community: lets build a stake and burn the offliners, they want to destroy everything

phase 7:
- offline community: hey, all refund requests have been denied
- FDs: let's pretend we did the right thing...
- online community: see, you like the game, so shut up!

Of course, that is somewhat simplified.

* This is called costumer service. When companies really F-up they bend backwards so your costumer comes back. It works GREAT and really really really builds costumer loyalty. Do you think FD is building costumer loyalty right now?


But you are not a supporter and you don't want to be a backer. Launching a game>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you. Sorry but you are just not that important.
 
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How about the moderators do their thing and stop this trolling?, we are sticking to the subject AND the proper thread yet get trolled constantly.....
 
You know, it has just occurred to me that FD may have been delaying the processing of refund claims until after the launch of the gamma on purpose, not because they lack the time/manpower to deal with it.

Why? How? Well their cancellation policy starts with: "Once a permanent download of a Digital Product has been made available for download by you, the order cannot be cancelled and no refund will be offered. "

So the scenario plays like this:

1. disgruntled backer with no alpha/beta access asks for refund
2. delay
3. gamma launches
4. as part of gamma everyone's store account now has a link to download gamma
5. backer gets their refund denied because "a permanent download of a Digital Product has been made available for download by you"
6. profit!
 
That was never the intended interpretation. We set out to make a vision of a game which we're proud of and we're achieving. We had intended to do a cut down version to support offline. The scope of the game has increased dramatically since Kickstarter and more of the game has needed to be done online. This has meant that we're unable to support offline. I completely understand that this upsets some people, I wouldn't pretend otherwise. But the fact came that we had to make a tough decision and we've made it. There has been quite a few posts that this was deliberate in some way to serve an agenda. The only agenda is to follow the vision of the game that David and ourselves have set out to meet. The other issue was timing of the announcement - again it coming so late in the day has upset people (in some cases more that the decision itself) that came about because we genuinely wanted to proved an offline mode. Ultimately we reached a point where it wasn't going to happen so we announced it. We would much rather not had to release such news a week before a launch event, but we had to tell people what was happening.

Michael

Let me see if I have this straight.

"We set out to make a vision of a game which we're proud of and we're achieving."
Follwed by...
"We had intended to do a cut down version to support offline."

So what is/was the vision? Since the following sentence says you were cutting something down to "support," offline, that implies to me your vision was an online game. What do you mean by, "support? What is your definition of that?

"The scope of the game has increased dramatically since Kickstarter and more of the game has needed to be done online." Well, you guys made the game. I can understand how you might over time be moving more and more over to the online part, but I would also think you would at that time, take steps to maintain the offline part, at least in some form, since development seems to have divided into two different branches.

"This has meant that we're unable to suport offline." I don't see it that way. I see it as you were able, you just chose not to, which is fine since it is your baby, but at the very least you should have either branched or let the people know things were not going so good for the offline part.

I also wonder whether that initial offline mode would have still been, despite being a "cut down version," required to maintain a connection to your servers, it kinda sounds that way, but I could be wrong.

I'm not trying to be mean, I just want the truth, and I sure don't want my fellow gamers to be taken advantage of, not that they are right now, but I must say, there are some rather unusual circumstances to say the least.

Good luck on your launch.
 
You know, it has just occurred to me that FD may have been delaying the processing of refund claims until after the launch of the gamma on purpose, not because they lack the time/manpower to deal with it.

Why? How? Well their cancellation policy starts with: "Once a permanent download of a Digital Product has been made available for download by you, the order cannot be cancelled and no refund will be offered. "

So the scenario plays like this:

1. disgruntled backer with no alpha/beta access asks for refund
2. delay
3. gamma launches
4. as part of gamma everyone's store account now has a link to download gamma
5. backer gets their refund denied because "a permanent download of a Digital Product has been made available for download by you"
6. profit!

Don't worry UK consumer law trumps FD T&C's.
 
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