News NPC AI update

[Davadin]

Hey guys,

We wanted to share a quick update with you to let you know how the investigation into the NPC AI has been progressing after the removal of the Engineers weapons for the NPCs and what the next steps are.

The development team have been hard at work investigating these bugs. To give you a little more information, it appears that the unusual weapons attacks were caused by some form of networking issue which allowed the NPC AI to merge weapon stats and abilities. Meaning that all new and never before seen (sometimes devastating) weapons were created, such as a rail gun with the fire rate of a pulse laser. These appear to have been compounded by the additional stats and abilities of the engineers weaponry. (We don’t think the AI became sentient in a Skynet-style uprising! ). However, the valiant Mark Allen from the Development team has managed to terminate these NPCs in their tracks.

The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.

I would just like to take this opportunity to clarify a few misconceptions. The AI has in no way been reduced, it remains the glorious, improved version from the update. The only action that we’ve taken so far has been to remove the engineer weapons to allow us to investigate the issue and address a key bug. Once this bug fix goes live we’ll be able to see how the AI is performing and then, over time, should we feel that the balancing is right to introduce a very select few high end engineers weapons to the highest ranked NPCs we will investigate that option. However, that won’t be immediately as we want to ensure that the balance is just right.

Edit: Please note this point update will be PC specific and the Xbox One update will need to follow after. We'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

Dude. As of last night EST, I got master+ ranked NPCs shooting at me with engineer modded weapons.

Loving it tho, its fun. But I think people are getting confused on what exactly is removed and when exactly, and on who/which NPC....

 

[GG7]

I just had a terrible feeling..., seems like we, the community failed our job finding those AI bugs during 2.1 Beta. Am I right? Have we failed our purpose?

Luckily the brillant sir Mark Allen smacked those bugs for us!!

I'm so sorry for that dear Frontier. I promisse I'll do better myself during next Beta!

There were MANY reports filed. But I didn't get the impression that ANY of them were taken seriously until these same bugs made it into the release, and well... Here we are.

I seem to encounter at least one THERMAL TROLL per system as of yesterday. Fortunately, these NPC's weapon has been nerfed but my ship still warns of a thermal attack. These same ships are still damned hard to kill even without their one shot kill weapon available.

My A rated Python handles like a T9 compared to some of these UBER ships. Especially the FDL and Federal Assault Ship! Those things do high speed head ons at me, which I have learned to use to kill them. Launch a Cell Bank and run head on into them.... BOOM!

Its risky, but it works for me! At least I haven't died from one of those head ons yet.

Still crazy unbalanced if you ask me. I can't chase them around even with my A6 thrusters. Turreted weapons is about all that can hit them consistently. The enemy are either super easy to kill or way too hard. No sweet spot, as in no memorable dog fights since the 2.1 update.

Even though the old AI wasn't that hard, you could get into some fun 1v1s with some of them, and the ship handling was far more balanced than it is now. The current NPC combat pattern is fast pass, 180 back around and fast pass again, rinse and repeat.

 

[Martian Successor]

Sneaky little blighters. The AI were waiting for that intelligence upgrade so they could pull a HAL 9000 on us after a whole year of being forced to let us kill them in ever demeaning ways!

So you're saying that the AI exploited networking bugs and did hardcore minmaxing?

I don't know whether they should shadow ban all 800 trillion of them for exploiting network bugs or whether we should open up a thread asking for the NPC's advice on what the best builds are?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

CUDOs!

The "new" AI is now a real feat for proficient players and no longer an apocalyptic warrior to newbies and traders.

This said: Could you please think about improving bounty and cz voucher revenues about 50%? It's not lucrative enough anymore to go to Res / cNAv / CZ in ships that use SCB and/or costly ammo. Not everyone has the skill and patience to go in an all-pulse-bi-weave-FdL (plus I hate the pulse noise )

Pulse is love, pulse is life!

Ahem, but yeah I agree. Bounty payouts should be increased at least for Dangerous and above ranked AI. What cooler way to get our Boba Fett on than chasing down an Elite FDL with a 1 or 2 million credit bounty on their head. If we're going to be having glorious mini boss battles with Elite AI then the reward's gotta be worth the risk.

 

[Kzak]

FDev could always consider reintroducing select weapon-combinations as discovered in the bug when the Thargoids arrive. That would properly put the fear into us puny human Commanders.

 

[Baelydon]

The bug fix is expected to go live in our next point release which is planned for the end of this week/early next week but we’ll have more news on the exact time in the normal patch notes forum.

translation:

Hey guys, there is a gamebreaking bug in the game that can kill you instantly if you undock.......... we fix it MAYBE at the end of this week. until then, ♥♥♥♥ you.

What part of Zac saying, "However, the valiant Mark Allen from the Development team has managed to terminate these NPCs in their tracks." do people not understand?

He said in the first thread that they would be able to disable them server-side. He later said they found a bug. He then said they were terminated. Then ultimately, he said that the "FIX" for the bug would be in a point patch coming later.

I might be mistaken, but I don't think I am... I do know how to read and write after all. Turning that which is broken OFF, fixing it later... not uncommon.

Nothing good can come of facetious comments. (like those I made here)

 

[BigBossLucas]

As Pecisk mentioned contact support if you've suffered from the bugs.

As for the NPCs I should add, we can't confirm this will fix all the issues with NPCs. Aggro for an example is something we're still investigating and even after this update it's still possible that there could be an additional cause for NPC issues. But it's promising that there is a fix already in and looking forward to seeing how that effects these killer machines.

Zac, you and your team should Admit it, MoM©'s minnions are revealing out of your control, they are playing the Powerplay too!!!, so beware, and contact Kevin Flynn instead.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

What part of Zac saying, "However, the valiant Mark Allen from the Development team has managed to terminate these NPCs in their tracks." do people not understand?

He said in the first thread that they would be able to disable them server-side. He later said they found a bug. He then said they were terminated. Then ultimately, he said that the "FIX" for the bug would be in a point patch coming later.

I might be mistaken, but I don't think I am... I do know how to read and write after all. Turning that which is broken OFF, fixing it later... not uncommon.

Nothing good can come of facetious comments. (like those I made here)

I'm not sure anymore which part I should believe. I did about 1 1/2 hour of undermining in PowerPlay yesterday, in the Phra Mool system. I got 450 merits for it. Since you get 30 merits for one kill, that means I killed 15 ships. In almost all instances, those NPCs were still using modded weapons. I kept seeing warnings about my heat being increased, or other warning messages resulting from the NPC I was fighting using modded weapon. So, I don't know what to believe. I thought a server-side update was supposed to go live yesterday during the day but, based on my experience, that didn't happen. Or I'm missing something...

 

[Valkenhiem]

lol o thank god, I was even recording when I saw the monster turn radius thing the first time. I was trying to show off how well I could dispatch those pythons even on 2.1! But it kept getting behind me, and I was like    !? Why cant my Vulture out perform this Python? So that was a bug!? I mean I even tried reverse thrust and FA off to keep up<-- Much relief! I love the new AI but once that happened 3 rebuys in one night I was left quite speechless and went a few days without playing in combat.

 

[careBear1]

I'm not sure anymore which part I should believe. I did about 1 1/2 hour of undermining in PowerPlay yesterday, in the Phra Mool system. I got 450 merits for it. Since you get 30 merits for one kill, that means I killed 15 ships. In almost all instances, those NPCs were still using modded weapons. I kept seeing warnings about my heat being increased, or other warning messages resulting from the NPC I was fighting using modded weapon. So, I don't know what to believe. I thought a server-side update was supposed to go live yesterday during the day but, based on my experience, that didn't happen. Or I'm missing something...

I can confirm that all evening in a res in Tollan, playing in solo, I have been getting frequent cockpit warnings about impulse attack and thermal attack. I assume these are linked to modded weapons, because they do not occur with every weapon strike. Plus the AI spontaneously attack when I first enter - which, since they are enemy not wanted, I guess is something to do with powerplay pledging. Not fun when there are a couple of wings of them and they get the jump on you.

 

[Jens Vedfolne]

Delete

 

[Habu2u]

Thanks for the information!! Always makes the "wait" easier when you have an idea of what's happening how you're working the issues. Look forward to the next update.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Thanks for the update.

So does that mean if you can't patch it by Friday afternoon we will have to go the whole weekend with the crazy AI weapons bug still in the game?

Scary!

 

[SlyRebirth]

This is good, thanks for the update. I don't know why I didn't find this thread earlier

 

[W4rSkuLL]

Great news I myself haven´t encountered the "gatlling PA" But I am glad the problem has been found and can be fixed.

 

[Will4555268]

Just checking up on when the NPCs will be fixed and if your going to fix their maneuverability. I keep jumping in diffrent ships to test the NPCs and so far they still seem to out maneuver me no matter what i do. And yes i did try watching how to videos to see if i was doing something wrong. Being one of the many Elite combat players i dont think its me.

 

[Mauricio Moura]

If this is really a bug and not intended game difficult change (as if they wanted to bring Dark souls difficulty to ED), like get insta interdicted, and have a fed dropship down your shields even before you stop spining.

Can i get my conda back?


Just restore a server backup of may 31st, before 9pm and my ship should be there intact inside Watanabe Station.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

If this is really a bug and not intended game difficult change (as if they wanted to bring Dark souls difficulty to ED), like get insta interdicted, and have a fed dropship down your shields even before you stop spining.

Can i get my conda back?


Just restore a server backup of may 31st, before 9pm and my ship should be there intact inside Watanabe Station.

Put in a support ticket, they will look after you.

 

[Odizark]

I've been playing since beta almost two years ago. During that time I lost 15 ships for various reasons but only 8 for interdictions.

After the installation of Horizons and while playing the last weekend between Friday 27 and Sunday 29 I lost 4 ships with cargo (anaconda 404 tons), one of them I think my responsibility (it was trapped at the exit of one station), The other three losses occurred in interdictions occasioned by NPC where my ship was destroyed in the first 15 seconds or less, all of them federal gunship overloaded.

In addition, the NPC have blacklisted me, every time I leave a station, interdiction. On two occasions my ship was shooting while he entered a station!!!!..(I thought that the station artillery will destroy him , but not !!! he get away and disappeared into the void) They follow my ship persistently and most serious is that my weapons does them no harm, nothing. For now only can run and run fast.

The gameplay becomes increasingly difficult, and I have seen with regret as my wallet has dropped from 170 million to 140 million in two days.

I think a fantastic game, do not be discouraged me by this experience, but if it continues I will need to sell my ship because I can not keep with less than 130 millions.

For now I'm doing mining, thinking it is safer, but even here among the asteroids they come to kill me, even without cargo.

I had never fled the fighting, I do it when necessary, but now I'm extremely nervous when a yellow triangle appears on my radar because I can't lose more anacondas.

Tonight June 02, the nightmare continues. For a mining mission to complete a shipment of 10 units of gold, just a second later after, I get a NPC to take my shipment., And to make matters worse.... was two ships.......!!! I do not understand the logic here. I closed the session and entered three times again, for different game modes and .....100% of the time they were waiting for me. There is no way that I can defeat them in this unequal battle, I have no choice but to close the game and wait a while to see if technicians can solve this disaster. It's a shame.

And this happens just when I had recovered 10 million lost already mentioned, I ask myself a coincidence?

Apparently the only way to defeat the AI is closing the game and exit to the desktop. I think the magic is lost. I would not recommend Elite dangerous right now.

I made a ticket with this story see what happens
Thank you for reading

Commander Odizark

 

[McGlashan]

Looking forward to the changes, I quite enjoy the challenge from the smarter NPCs but a) it's not much fun getting your butt handed to you by an objectively weaker ship that's on steroids, and b) the risk/reward is now way out of whack. And be wary of people who say it's fine as it is, they most likely got through the title and money grinds before this update, so it's easy for them to say. I've been around online games long enough to know to ride out these sorts of balance changes, but the fact is I've found the game significantly less rewarding, both in terms of the fun factor and in-game progress, for the last week.

 

[wagfeliz]

So...if the Engineer weapon mods have been removed, how come I'm still hearing "Warning, Impulse Attack" during every other NPC fight I get into?

Its because its not removed yet, I just got destroyed by some OP module attack, I wander when they will remove it, do anybody knows ?