News NPC AI update

[deanlanchester]

I have also been attacked whilst carrying no cargo...even though my enemy stated they were after my 'Big Haul' and even though i was out running it (ASP at full power with boost 348 against a Imp.Clipper) it was able to hit me over a vast range and destroyed me.
Hence why,sadly,i have not played for over a week and still find myself hovering over the game button and then moving on to something else.
Not a happy bunny as i really DID love playing this game

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It's even better than that right now. When you're blown up, you have the CHOICE of paying the insurance and getting your ship back OR starts a new with a sidewinder. Best of both worlds...

Can i ask a stupid question,for which i will be jumped on for,how is that exactly 'Best of Both Worlds' ?
Maybe for you,but not for me. I have limited time to play the game as it is and continually losing my ship and more over very hard earned credits,it just a P**s take.
Im all for improved AI...but not to the level where its having a major impact on the game and causing some players just to give up all together

 

[Miklos Atreides]

I have also been attacked whilst carrying no cargo...even though my enemy stated they were after my 'Big Haul' and even though i was out running it (ASP at full power with boost 348 against a Imp.Clipper) it was able to hit me over a vast range and destroyed me.
Hence why,sadly,i have not played for over a week and still find myself hovering over the game button and then moving on to something else.
Not a happy bunny as i really DID love playing this game

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Can i ask a stupid question,for which i will be jumped on for,how is that exactly 'Best of Both Worlds' ?
Maybe for you,but not for me. I have limited time to play the game as it is and continually losing my ship and more over very hard earned credits,it just a P**s take.
Im all for improved AI...but not to the level where its having a major impact on the game and causing some players just to give up all together

I commit. There are tough times for the traders out there today. I am trading, exploring and there is still the logic behind the NPC interdictions weired, though it is even better than before.
Till today I didn't loose a ship but sometimes it was on the edge and repair bills are flying in way more often with significant CR numbers cutting my profits.
I don't know why they changed the whole thing. If they did update the AI look how it works and then begin to tune slightly the interdiction rules there would have been a much smoother
progress to the more dangerous AI. Anyway they didn't and cuased this chaos.
I still hope they get back that Djiny in the bottle again and think over their strategy. I don't want to have Elite as a space shooter and currently I think with fear at "Multi Crew" and "ships on ships"
Tough times ahead for traders.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[Tecker]

Are there some Changes with the AI?

 

[Insomnia]

Well..... I just killed 1 Clipper, 1 Python, 1 ASP and 1 Anaconda. Neither of them barely fired at me.
So epic... Wow..

Edit:
Instead of posting insults, I'll just uninstall ED.

 

[manos70131]

Well..... I just killed 1 Clipper, 1 Python, 1 ASP and 1 Anaconda. Neither of them barely fired at me.
So epic... Wow..

Edit:
Instead of posting insults, I'll just uninstall ED.

I wrote in another thread that I too have seen opponents that didn't fire a single shot against me (even though they had me in their sight some times). This must be a bug introduced with the .04 update. It never happened before that patch. Not all opponents are like that. I have encountered very aggressive and agile opponents too after that patch. I think that it's a balancing issue that should be fixed in the next release(s).

 

[Tecker]

So there are still balancing Problems?
Some NPC´s are dumb like bread and other ones beat the hell out of you?
Okay.
As long as it takes to balance the AI for Casuals i still play other Games like FSX.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

I wrote in another thread that I too have seen opponents that didn't fire a single shot against me (even though they had me in their sight some times). This must be a bug introduced with the .04 update. It never happened before that patch. Not all opponents are like that. I have encountered very aggressive and agile opponents too after that patch. I think that it's a balancing issue that should be fixed in the next release(s).

Where as for me, pretty much every time I am interdicted, I get Elite rated pirates that give me 0.02 seconds to respond to their demands before opening up. When security services eventually decide turn up in a secure system, they spend the majority of their time scanning and circling around me.

It's getting rather frustrating the lack of balance with AI aggression.

 

[Otherwhere]

Where as for me, pretty much every time I am interdicted, I get Elite rated pirates that give me 0.02 seconds to respond to their demands before opening up. When security services eventually decide turn up in a secure system, they spend the majority of their time scanning and circling around me.

It's getting rather frustrating the lack of balance with AI aggression.

This is my experience as well. Still interdicted and attacked WHEN I HAVE NO CARGO! At least they're only using missiles instead of the uber weapons following 1.6/2.1. But where the heck are my potato NPCs?

 

[VR jefranklin18]

This is my experience as well. Still interdicted and attacked WHEN I HAVE NO CARGO! At least they're only using missiles instead of the uber weapons following 1.6/2.1. But where the heck are my potato NPCs?

Just completed an utterly frustrating 2 hours where I was interdicted and destroyed 3 times. The last one that made me turn off was at the completion of a 400ly mission delivering biowaste in my DBX. Interdicted by an FDL, security arrive and scan me, I blow up - the same story over and over. I wish the AI wasn't so dumb that it sees that I am carry 24 tons of **** and thinks it is a valuable target.

I don't play games to get frustrated - I play them to relax, especially after a less than stellar week at work. </Rant>

 

[Otherwhere]

Just completed an utterly frustrating 2 hours where I was interdicted and destroyed 3 times. The last one that made me turn off was at the completion of a 400ly mission delivering biowaste in my DBX. Interdicted by an FDL, security arrive and scan me, I blow up - the same story over and over. I wish the AI wasn't so dumb that it sees that I am carry 24 tons of **** and thinks it is a valuable target.

I don't play games to get frustrated - I play them to relax, especially after a less than stellar week at work. </Rant>

Quoted for truth.

Dev: "But how can you have fun if there's no risk?"
Me: "Uh, I can mine and have fun. I can trade and have fun. I can scan systems and have fun. Getting destroyed isn't fun. Narrowly escaping can be fun, but can also getting tiring when it happens too much. And not feeling like my choices matter also takes the fun out of the game. There's reasonable risk, and then there's unreasonable/psychotic response that is immersion breaking.
/rant

 

[manos70131]

I think that the AI has improved for some ranks. I'm at master level and it's not that bad. As I said, I have faced some pretty passive opponents that interdicted me but didn't shoot me (probably a bug that needs fixing). But there are difficult opponents too. So it's more balanced and it's still a bit dangerous but not too much. Personally I have started playing again normally after about a month's rest. Apparently not all levels are balanced however. I believe that the developers are getting the feedback and I hope that the game will get better soon.

But I'd like to investigate what "better" means. We have high ranking players that find challenge in difficult opponents and do not want the difficult AI to get easier and others with the same rank that find the current implementation too difficult and no fun at all. It seems that there is no way to please all but it's not a good policy to leave many displeased. Personally I don't find anything wrong with the game to be playable by all. So I tend to believe that the best approach is to make the game easier for the higher ranks. But it still needs to provide challenge to the people seeking it. I can think of a few ways we can have that. Special war zones? Special missions? Special events? Apparently the common part of all is the word "special". It's for the people knowing what they are getting into and seeking big rewards. ED needs to be a game that must appeal to as many as possible without imposing bigger challenges than necessary.

 

[CMDR DarkxXPhoenixXx]

/rant is all I see on the fourms these days.

 

[Insomnia]

/rant is all I see on the fourms these days.

The worst period of rants ever was when commanders died due to the awesome 2.1 AI.

 

[derpbuddyuk]

The only problem of late i have noticed is same as others have mentioned i have jumped into a system carrying no cargo to then seeing a message surprised you made it this far with such a big haul or wording similar.
Almost immediately it's interdiction after interdiction after a cargo i don't have and this is constant by 'SKY-NET' to the point i have to jump the hell out due to getting attacked almost within seconds of receiving the message.

If i had a bounty on myself i could understand however the AI seem's to be more interested in just attacking any human controlled ship for the sake of it where has the balance gone in the AI it seem's non existent lately.
A bounty on me deserves attack cargo i agree but to be carrying nothing and no bounty and to sustain damage for no apparent reason is just a waste of credits and the 3 hours grind to earn them.

After the vamp to the AI in this game it all seem's to be spiraling out of control i thought they had addressed SKY-NET and balanced the aggression however i see no different behavior instead they are nerfing the wrong aspects of this game.
What i have read on the forums is that quite a few people are now not playing over all this SKY-NET aggressive behavior players are not being able to play how they want as you cannot explore anymore without the threat of constant interdiction's for no reason.

There has to be a balance in this game as at the moment i see a lot of players all complaining over the same thing and every time its SKY-NET.

:O:O:O

 

[Tecker]

I think that the AI has improved for some ranks.

Is it my fault that i have 30% to Combat Elite pre AI Change?
NO!
Beta Time was over long before Engineers Update and the new AI.
Why the hack no one fixes the Bugs of the old AI?
So i could get the Deadly Rank for killing Dumb NPC´s and now they blast me out of Space.
And i only get Interdicted by Deadly or Elite Pirates with Mod Weapons.
Where is the Option to reset the Combat Rank?
Why no hard Reset of all Ranks?

 

[dAlexis]

I am lucky, because Cutter was bought yesterday (achived Duke). Everything other is in danger from new AI. Conda & Python sold w\o any remorse, because highly unsafe. This "AI" is looking like playing shooters with cheaters. Federal elite non-corvette AI ships cannot be created in real life! Typical meeting os Anaconda with Fed (Dropship, FAS)

1. When head 2 head meeting, my shield is max 1\3 when I throw off the opponent’s shield. And I am using boosters. Feds have A5 distributor and power, as I remember! My shield is double too
2. A4 & 2 A3 beams are hitting 2-3% AIs hull per second. 1-2 3rd lasers backfire crashing me nearly with same speed, sometimes faster. Doctor, is it normal?
3.Because I started 2 crash the hull faster (thanks 2 double shield),NPC if flying away. Sometimes I manage 2 catch, sometimes – FSD hole in ~2 km, no mind my mass lock.

Result - often no money and ~100-150K repair always

Somebody like this, but me - NO! This new AI looks like making love standing in hammock and enjoying difficulties...

 

[newman1702]

I listen to these AI comments and I sometimes feel like I'm playing a different game to everyone else. First of all, I'm annoyed that when I get interdicted, it's quite often by a wing of 4 harmless eagles or something silly and easy like that (my combat rank is deadly and I'm usually in my general-purpose-with-a-combat-bias clipper while in the bubble). Even when I get elites, the only reason the fight takes a bit longer is because they actually use chaff and SCB's (though SCB's often end up hurting them when I connect my thermals while they're popping those).

If you want to fight elites, rethink your combat style and ship / build; you're not supposed to be able to take them on half asleep in a sub-par build. But anything that's actually been built decently and know how to fly? You shouldn't have a problem at all. One important thing during a fight with a high ranked opponent is to observe what he does and what loadout he's using; if he's doing strafing runs and firing plasma accelerators at you, don't just fly straight at him back, use your lateral thrusters and he'll never hit you rendering half his loadout useless. Things like that make all the difference, but I guess people just want to point toward a target, press the trigger and have them die. NPC's are actually easy as it is now. Initially when 2.1 came out and they were firing glitched plasmas and rails with crazy refire rates, sure, that was a problem, but now? Difficult? I've not seen that and in fact often get bored as the fights are kind of easy.

This is why I think they should just have safer and less safe systems, much like many mmo's have starter zones and then zones tailored to specific levels - if you find elites challenging, go to a system where you won't find anyone above competent, and you'll be fine.. This way those of us who find fighting any NPC below deadly ridiculously easy don't get bored, and others don't get frustrated.

 

[Ziljan]

How are people still talking about this? The AI is just a notch above 2.0 kabob status. Dying is still 100% optional even vs Elites when flying crappy builds.

If anyone is still dying, they are doing about 12 things wrong at the same time. You can get away with 11 simultaneous egregious errors, but the 12th one may be your downfall.

 

[Riverside]

How are people still talking about this? The AI is just a notch above 2.0 kabob status. Dying is still 100% optional even vs Elites when flying crappy builds.

If anyone is still dying, they are doing about 12 things wrong at the same time. You can get away with 11 simultaneous egregious errors, but the 12th one may be your downfall.

It's still creating problems for people, so they are still talking about it. If I were happy I'd just play the game rather than complain that others are not happy

Plenty of positive comments in this thread too btw

 

[Djuwanna]

System Difficulty Rankings

I listen to these AI comments and I sometimes feel like I'm playing a different game to everyone else. First of all, I'm annoyed that when I get interdicted, it's quite often by a wing of 4 harmless eagles or something silly and easy like that (my combat rank is deadly and I'm usually in my general-purpose-with-a-combat-bias clipper while in the bubble). Even when I get elites, the only reason the fight takes a bit longer is because they actually use chaff and SCB's (though SCB's often end up hurting them when I connect my thermals while they're popping those).

If you want to fight elites, rethink your combat style and ship / build; you're not supposed to be able to take them on half asleep in a sub-par build. But anything that's actually been built decently and know how to fly? You shouldn't have a problem at all. One important thing during a fight with a high ranked opponent is to observe what he does and what loadout he's using; if he's doing strafing runs and firing plasma accelerators at you, don't just fly straight at him back, use your lateral thrusters and he'll never hit you rendering half his loadout useless. Things like that make all the difference, but I guess people just want to point toward a target, press the trigger and have them die. NPC's are actually easy as it is now. Initially when 2.1 came out and they were firing glitched plasmas and rails with crazy refire rates, sure, that was a problem, but now? Difficult? I've not seen that and in fact often get bored as the fights are kind of easy.

This is why I think they should just have safer and less safe systems, much like many mmo's have starter zones and then zones tailored to specific levels - if you find elites challenging, go to a system where you won't find anyone above competent, and you'll be fine.. This way those of us who find fighting any NPC below deadly ridiculously easy don't get bored, and others don't get frustrated.

As one who had been firmly entrenched in the "this 2.1 thing SUCKS!" camp, both from the standpoint of the AI issues at release and the Engineers' component requirements without a footlocker to store them in (that one I'm not going to budge on), I nevertheless have to agree with you here. While I am undoubtedly not what one would consider an "expert pilot", and therefore cannot claim to find the new AI "boring" in any way, it is certainly much better than the initial release, and I find your final paragraph spot-on. The trick is to communicate with clarity (and without breaking the bubble up into "sections") how to know which systems are more risky (Dangerous/Elite), which are a cakewalk, and which are in the middle. And no, it can't be as simple as "If it's Anarchy, it's Elite foes" - everyone needs to be able to operate in every system "type".

I hope Frontier does do something like this, perhaps using the GalNet by providing a new entry containing a list of systems within a 100 LY range of the current system ranking them on a difficulty scale of 1-5 and including the current political state in the list to help people decide where they want to go next, or where they want to AVOID going.

Just a thought ;-)