Oddyssey Abandoned In Favor of Colonisation

They introduced new, and in my opinion good, gameplay in providing on-foot content. Yeah, sad that 'explorers' didn't get something splendid from it, or traders were not smart enough to see the opportunities that settlements present for lucrative, but small quantity, trading... Instead, many folk looked at it as being a 'FPS' addition and walked away...

The funny thing is, those complaining about Elite Feet being a ‘FPS’ reminds me of a Lets Player I used to watch. We generally had the same tastes, so when he decided to play a game I enjoyed, I thought to myself, “He’s going to love this game!” Instead, he got increasingly frustrated as he ignored almost all the game’s mechanics, instead rushing into every encounter, guns blazing. He finally ragequit, declaring it to be the “Worst First Person Shooter, EVER!”

He’d been playing a first person role-playing game, which just happened to have guns in it.

That’s how I’ve approached Elite Feet, which is probably why I find it fun, though there is considerable friction towards engaging in it as much as I’d prefer.
 
'Explorers' will never have their desires for new and exciting content sated as, no matter what FD introduce, it isn't what they wanted, just the same as 'elite feet', while clamoured for over the years wasn't Odyssey content...

As for Traders, goodness knows, from the forum they don't like the risk of being blown up by NPCs or players as they fly their shieldless and unarmoured ships, squeezing every last ton of cargo space out from them, and sit watching big numbers get even bigger...

I can understand the explorer's obsession with new exploration content (you're right - it's insatiable) and even, to a point, empathise with their desire for max jump range to the exclusion of everything else.

But I frankly don't understand traders who skimp on defensive measures just be able to bring a few more tons of cargo over (speaking in the PvE context). As a freighter captain, your job is to set things up to maximize the chances of the cargo making it to the other end of a trading leg.

Both my trade mission ships & bulk freighters have engineered reinforced alloy. My AspX mission trader boosts at +400m/s and is armed. I do take risks, like using dwarf star FSD boosts to cut down the number of jumps but I don't stop at stations in anarchy systems.

It's a balancing act, but one thing I know for sure - going to extremes to maximize anything gets you killed fast.
 
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It wasn't very good on my PC, which, at the time, was much more powerful than DB's...
I recently built a Mini ITX PC around an AMD 8700G, it does run EDO in 1080 on the integrated graphics, at 30 FPS and with many features turned down, something that would have been very unlikely at launch!

That’s kind of my point.

Any corporate tech department worth their salt would make sure that their CEO’s personal machine was duplicated in their QA department. Thus my rig at the time benefited from essentially being tested, and having any serious issues already resolved, before launch. There’s a world of difference between a well maintained, carefully crafted QA machine, and what exists among the playerbase.

I’m sure their internal testing, and David Braben’s own playtesting, showed that all was well. It’s only when Odyssey left the lab, and started running on the huge variety of configurations in the wild, did the serious problems get revealed.
 
Exploration with combat would have been nice, but we don't even have plants that try and eat you let alone mobile hostiles, that would have been a big win for the exploration crowd, a big fail that in my opinion, maybe next time!

I would love alien encounters as you described and if I can get an alien pet, even better 😁 Agree that exobiology needs some more fleshing out, there should be some form of alien ecology taking place.

Something like an alien plant BGS.
 
It may have been mentioned but missed the post in the thread, but I'm seeing lots of personal gripes and wishlists, when the only REAL problem with the Odyssey launch as such was that they couldn't get it to run on the PS4/XBO versions of the game, eventually leading to the situation we are in now with console players left behind and only the PC version of ED being left. Had they managed to get equivalent PS4/XBO versions to launch on the same day, the narrative around Odyssey completely changes. IMHO.

One of my hopes for 2025 is that, with the addition of Colonization and any other features they have planned, FDev can get PS5/XBX versions out of the door. (Which would be the perfect time to fold Odyssey into the main game and include it, and going some way to justifying the purchase for those who have the PS4/XBO versions.) Plenty of Space games out there, but on console the only serious competition is No Man's Sky, which is still doing fairly well.
 
One of my hopes for 2025 is that, with the addition of Colonization and any other features they have planned, FDev can get PS5/XBX versions out of the door. (Which would be the perfect time to fold Odyssey into the main game and include it, and going some way to justifying the purchase for those who have the PS4/XBO versions.) Plenty of Space games out there, but on console the only serious competition is No Man's Sky, which is still doing fairly well.
With GeForce Now effectively, though not optimally, bridging the gap coupled with the CMDR transfer portal, I think we are less likely to see native console ports of V4.0/Odyssey than a full Alyx-styled VR implementation.
 
The funny thing is, those complaining about Elite Feet being a ‘FPS’ reminds me of a Lets Player I used to watch. We generally had the same tastes, so when he decided to play a game I enjoyed, I thought to myself, “He’s going to love this game!” Instead, he got increasingly frustrated as he ignored almost all the game’s mechanics, instead rushing into every encounter, guns blazing. He finally ragequit, declaring it to be the “Worst First Person Shooter, EVER!”

He’d been playing a first person role-playing game, which just happened to have guns in it.

That’s how I’ve approached Elite Feet, which is probably why I find it fun, though there is considerable friction towards engaging in it as much as I’d prefer.

How are you "supposed" to play Oddyssey then? Most of the missions you get are variations of "go someplace, murder everybody and take their stuff."
 
How are you "supposed" to play Oddyssey then? Most of the missions you get are variations of "go someplace, murder everybody and take their stuff."

I've found that most missions I've seen are variations of "go someplace, and do something." The "murder everybody and take their stuff" is usually optional. Granted, the "murder everybody" can certainly make the "do something" easier, but it's not a requirement. And if you're going to kill everyone anyway, you might as well take their stuff. But both activities are a byproduct of a certain playstyle, and not a objective in and of themselves.
 
How are you "supposed" to play Oddyssey then? Most of the missions you get are variations of "go someplace, murder everybody and take their stuff."

And that's exactly the point, because most Odyssey missions aren't, only the ones that specifically tell you to go somewhere and kill the invading scavs or whatever enemy is there. As Darkfyre99 says, most missions can be done without killing everyone, but if your mindset is on the FPS "kill everyone" pattern then that's fine as long as you can actually achieve that, go for your life, but that's mostly a choice not a requirement.
 
If they give us feet in proper VR, I'd be a lot more invested in it. At the moment, I'm not, preferring to play vehicle based where I can look around and see the world(s). But I've got my LEP so I've got what feet they have provided and will get whatever they provide in future. we'll see.
 
This is the exact point I was making about the difference between the "will buy anything" loyal community, and the much larger number of "people who play Elite Dangerous a bit" - and it's that much larger group who put in most of the game's ongoing revenue.

The "will buy anything" community did indeed get really hyped up on the original announcement. Most PC players active enough to post on the forum will own it, and probably make some use of it, and likely enjoy it too. The lesson here is that the "loyal community" isn't large enough, on its own, to make a major expansion a financial success.
It's a niche game. Hard for me to believe most of the revenue is coming from "people who play Elite Dangerous a bit" rather than those who are more committed, but I would love to see the actual numbers. I know I wouldn't be buying things from the arx store after they jacked up the prices if I weren't committed to the game but that, of course, is anecdotal.

The "big mistake" was unfortunately made back in about 2018, when they decided that "space legs plus tenuous atmospheres" was a reasonable scope for an expansion that they could develop in ~2.5 years and sell at full price to the majority of semi-active players. They were wrong then on timescale, on price point, on market size, on ability to sell to consoles at all. After that - with the benefit of hindsight - all they could do is choose exactly which mode of disaster they wanted it to be.
(Did they pick the optimal one? Probably not. Did it really matter by early 2021 exactly which they picked? Probably not.)
Much as I enjoy space legs, the decision to develop Odyssey was wrong. Frontier did not have the required resources to do it properly. It was also a mistake to hype up future game development by selling last chance lifetime expansion passes just before Horizons launched. Did they know they weren't going to be able to live up to that "promise" but did it anyway for the money? Or were they simply incompetent?

You can derive a fair bit from things like squadron and powerplay leaderboards, station traffic reports, third-party tool use, and so on. There's a lot of information directly or indirectly shown in-game about player activity levels. It's pretty easy to tell from those that "spaceship content" gets much bigger and more sustained spikes in player activity than "foot content" does.

But what does that really mean? That foot content is a mistake? Or that shoddily implemented foot content is a mistake? When the spaceship content is better quality and more varied than the foot content, it should be no surprise which one is more "popular."

But I think the main evidence is more about what Frontier has done recently to make Odyssey a more attractive purchase to the people who didn't already have it:
- cut the base price to £10 from £30
The base game is even cheaper, and currently free on Amazon Prime. I don't read much into that other than a 10 year old game is going to be discounted. Odyssey is more than 3.5 years old and most games get significant discounts after a year on the market.
- made it the way to get four new spaceships
Great way to stimulate sales. Buy new ships individually, or get them at a better price by buying Odyssey.
- introduced one novel piece of on-foot content in the last two years (Thargoid Spires)
- had exactly one CG which required Odyssey (they used to have Horizons-exclusive CGs quite regularly, with the first one just a couple of weeks after it released)
Is that the sort of thing that Frontier would do if - post-fixes - Odyssey was selling well as an expansion and their internal metrics showed lots of players were spending lots of time on-foot?
Seems like poor management to me. Providing fewer things to do on foot is not going to stimulate on foot gameplay and more Odyssey sales. "Look, when we don't give them reasons for playing on foot, they don't buy Odyssey. Obviously, on foot gameplay was a mistake." Holy self fulfilling prophecy, Batman!
I quite like a lot of the on-foot content; I think it fits nicely into the Powerplay rewrite, exobio is a good addition to exploration to bring a lot of formerly boring ice balls and rocky moons to being more interesting, the ground CZs make a nice "quick action" break from the more thinky bits of the game, the NPC responses to player actions are a bit more coherent, it isn't embarrassed to have implemented illegal actions. I still don't spend that much time doing any of it, compared with the spaceship-flying content.
So you fly your ships more than you go out on foot. That doesn't mean the on foot portion of the game is not worthwhile. The fleet carrier is my favorite addition to the game, but the vast majority of my play time is spent off the carrier. By the same token, being able to set foot on strange new worlds is a great addition to the game even if I spend more time in a cockpit.

Some players just want to pew-pew. Some just want to explore. Others want to be space truckers. Some want to mine. Some want to raid settlements on foot. Some want to steal things. Some want to race SRVs. The more things we can do in this virtual galaxy, the better. Odyssey was a mistake only in that Frontier didn't have the resources to pull it off. If it was in the shape it's in today at launch, I'm confident it would have been successful.
 
One of the longest running, most active and regularly visited threads by new cmdrs is the Ody gear sharing thread. Not bad for an unpopular game expansion.
Yeah after almost 2 years away from the game I was so surprised to see that thread I'd posted in when Odyssey came out still going strong
 
One of the longest running, most active and regularly visited threads by new cmdrs is the Ody gear sharing thread. Not bad for an unpopular game expansion.
It makes me chuckle when I see it bumped because it means people are still avoiding the bread and butter of Odyssey i.e. gear engineering, despite the recent (and long overdue) rework.

And I don't blame them - I previously engineered all suits and weapons to G5 and hated myself for it after. Why I did it... What else was I going to do, and having a completionist OCD. It was definitely one of the worst grinds in my time with Elite since I started playing. And it made the settlements part of game ridiculously easy and ultimately boring.
 
You can say exactly the same thing about the ship part of the game. I haven't done anything in ships for ages and none of the upcoming content is going to change that. Until I run out of mats I won't even need to get off my butt to do that grind. I am looking forward the next 2 hours I'll spend in the station spinning the slot machines to upgrade the next ship I get. Thrilling.
 
To be fair, there's more nuance around ship engineering as it provides more diverse options for different builds and loadouts, and engineering effects (more so for weapons). In comparison, I find the various options for Ody engineering pretty uninspiring compared to ship engineering. It again gives me the impression that the Ody dev team never played the base game.
 
I think this is simply the wrong demographic for making FPS a major part of the gameplay. People who love dogfights with WW2 biplanes or 33rd century spaceships don't necessarily want personal combat on foot.
True, but what if I told you the on-foot guys can do a bit of space on the side and vice versa...
FD just misread their market. Badly.
I agree that FDev misread markets all the time (not just for this game.)

But markets have segments. I don't think they did misread the OG Kickstarter segment; they just exhausted the possibilities with it and needed a whole new bunch of segments to address.

The Kickstarter segment is a tiny fraction of the potential market for "space games." ED has a lot of weird lore designed in because it is Elite lore, so the market for that is roughly the over-50s who wanted a nostalgia buy, plus a very small number of nerds who think Stellar Forge is amazing (of which I am one) plus 6DOF combat fiends, plus people who buy every aerospace & defence sim out there.

None of those are segments, they are tiny slivers. FDev's multiple attempts to grow the base are looking to address other segments. Just behind the 50-something ex-Elite lot there's the 40-something ex-Doom lot. One thing FDev have done right is provide an on-foot game with a bit of spaceship, but also provide a spaceship game with a bit of on-foot. That at least is pretty smart on the face of it. Unfortunately, execution of it is... not perfect... but that is a separate issue that shrinks all the addressable market (although it probably shrinks the on-foot market more because stuff breaks in that part of the game more often.)

The Odyssey lessons were "don't release broken stuff" "maybe test things first" and "have a realistic dev plan and release plan" and whilst commercially I suspect they've been a bit smarter about mix of resources used, with more freelancers so it's easier to control costs, they don't actually seem to have used any of those lessons in the production of PP 2.0, other than the fact it's a smaller release and therefore somewhat a lower hurdle in the first place. (Would also add if you go and look at the PC2 threads, the themes are hauntingly familiar)

This isn't a complaint, it's more like an "it is what it is" post. I've come to think of this game as one of those performance car projects, where some sensor or another will go on the fritz and you'll drive around the problem for three months until you finally get a weekend to fix it. But you keep the damn car.
 
Any corporate tech department worth their salt would make sure that their CEO’s personal machine was duplicated in their QA department.
No, successful corporate tech departments recognise whims and wishcasting and fashion when they see it and they simply refuse to waste time on it. Why? Because the last thing you need in QC and QA is to be solving the wrong problem. The only person that gives two figs whether it works on the CEO's machine should be the CEO on a personal basis. There is absolutely no way this should be a priority for anyone in a sustainable business.

I had a stint in one corporate who lost TWO YEARS in tablet adoption because they tried to do iPad first even though the end case was for ruggedized Android. Guess what kind of tablet the CFO had.

Thus my rig at the time benefited from essentially being tested, and having any serious issues already resolved, before launch. There’s a world of difference between a well maintained, carefully crafted QA machine, and what exists among the playerbase.
It's simply not a QA machine if it doesn't represent the player base. It's a machine which happens to exist on which you could happen to do some testing. You don't even know if you're testing the right things at this point.
I’m sure their internal testing, and David Braben’s own playtesting, showed that all was well.
Maybe, and yes the first thing one learns in QA is that "testing" is not QA.

But even then perhaps that isn't true. We could look at the Issue Tracker now and point to some very long-standing issues that would happen on any machine and in a core gameloop.

It’s only when Odyssey left the lab, and started running on the huge variety of configurations in the wild, did the serious problems get revealed.
Absolutely. And also the huge variety of weird collisions of state and gameloop. Can forgive all of that, but there are still issues that would be found with the absolute basics of QC and we see it in every release. Not asking for 100% (because that's impossible) but getting a bit closer to the 80 of the 80/20 would not be hard, and it does seem to be slowly happening.
 
they are tiny slivers
Another tiny sliver that brought me to this game, having never heard of the Elite franchise, never having played a flight game, and with no special interest in the space genre, was my search for a sandbox game with minimal scripted game play. Kenshi, Mount & Blade, and 7 Days to Die are the titles that reside (a distant) closest to ED in hours I've played. I like the games that give me a decent enough structure to feel like I can live in them, but without a pathway towards completion or a finish line. I want the game with deep systems and no stated goal to achieve from them. Many such games attract questions of what to do, demands for question marks and exclamation points guiding every move, and of course a grand end goal of being the most powerful thing to every live, and I think the difficult trick to make it enjoyable for a broader audience is finding some sort of balance for these audiences without offerring something nobody wanted in an attempt to please everybody.
FDev's multiple attempts to grow the base are looking to address other segments.
Yep, and the more segments that are added in a disjointed manner, the more pockets of players to feel what they play for is being abandoned in favor of whatever other bolt on attraction. I don't see it ever actually happening, hopefully I'm wrong, and I think this is at least somewhat what OP was asking for, but I think this game would best be improved right now by shelving any plans for specific content in favor of making the architecture behind all of the systems better tie them all together as seamlessly as possible.
 
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