On-foot PvP loadouts?

[Elpapo]

For PVP on foot, there is Indoor and Outdoor variety. That being said, PVP on foot is quite rare, atleast it used to.

For Outdoor, the best PVP loadout is dual aphelion spam with P-15 support. Its hitscan, so cant be really evaded. Mods are as follows for both of lasers;

Headshot dmg - Requires good aim, but this is what makes laser really scary, once shields are down.
Mag size - required for simple thing - it allows to keep firing until other aphelion is reloaded. Swap is quick enough - no need faster handling.
Stability - Required to keep sight while full auto, into target head, in any distance.
Stowed Reload - With this, one can spam laser, until both run out of ammo, wich is more than enough to pressure anyone, who dont know how to counter it.

Pistol mods p-15:
Mag size - Less frequent reloads, never is bad, and actually turn this pistol into pocket AR.
Headshot dmg - Big boost to dmg, it takes about 2-3 shots into head to fully kill player G5 domi with resistances.
Stability - When full auto spamming, you want keep your sights on target head. Without it, its not really possible, to constantly score headshots in mid to long range.
Scope - This helps aim to heads + bigger zoom while ADS. Works better than stock in mid to long ranges.

Pistol should be used to finishing off, when they are run out of med packs, or if close enough where dodging kinetics is near impossible.


Armor mods:
Extra ammo - You want much as ammo as possible, to prolong laser spam, and not be forced to camp next to ammo crate.
Extra battery - Without this, you are forced to camp near recharge station or near battery boxes, as with shields its not much of time. On tactical level, its quite disadvantage.
Night vison - Helps when its dark, or when there is tons of shadows... One can always make "day only" version without this mod, and use something else. But not always there will be daylight, so this is more akin to all-rounder.
Jump assist - This is most important mod of all, in order to stay alive. Mobility in air is key.


Now, for every outdoor fights, well as those in mid air, it absolutetly dominated anyone who I came across... Ever since I came out with this idea, never, ever once died to another cmdr while on foot, while using it. But its not as good indoors, there is other "Finer" setups for that.

Why it works so well, your own loadouts are good example:

If you would use such, and meet Me using this, you would simply be out-dps'ed in direct firefight. Also I would have tactical advantage, of being not forced to stay near boxes for ammo refill, as mine would last longer than yours, same is for energy. I would simply be more capable to out-tank your laser as well, by simple diffrence not using headshots dmg, while I would hit your head with lasers dealing way more dmg than you would to me, long as you are in my clear line of sight, and diffrence quite so-so.



For indoor combat, while inside bulidings, same armor can be used. But for indoors, Plasma shotgun while "scope+hip" bugged, makes one-shot from fully shields and health or leaves with tiny bit of health. Thats because it igores shield gate. Good combo with such shotgun, is plain old L-6, as it allows to deliver dmg while target isnt is at line of sight. Shoot into wall, celling or floor near them, it always forces them to move, or if they tank it, they take some dmg, or outright be killed.
Side arm is same pistol as before, as indoors, kinetics cant be easy avoided either.

• The highly popular plasma guns, due to their super low "bullet" speed, would be useless for PvP (exception for the shotgun at close range, maybe).

Well, I saw some quite skilled plasma users, but they always lost due of that I kept my distance. Big dmg if hits, but if it cant hit, its useless. But Shoty in certain setup is favorable indoors.

• A hit-scan weapon is a must, and should ideally be efficient against shield, and efficient enough against armor.

See my dual aphelion setup above - And headshot dmg is a must here as well.

• A slower weapon can still use the element of surprise to land a few shots, but no more than a few shots.

L-6 can be usefull indoors, mainy due that its hard to avoid while indoors, and it does splash dmg so can be used when target is hiding behind corner or so. Funny part is that splash dmg also benefits from headshot dmg.

• Like for space PvP, one must squeeze any advantage w.r.t. engineered mods, and leave aside any comfort options due to limited slots.

Indeed. My loadouts are absolute top choices given limited options and are designed with PVP in mind - designed for maxium efficenty, and absolutely no comfort options.

My thoughts on an efficient PvP loadout:

The suit(s):

Dominator with...:

• Combat movement speed, to increase mobility while aiming (ADS).

This can be used in "daylight version" instead of NV, but otherwise is not as good, as without this mod, one can still archive high mobility by utilize holster trick. Its quite difficult to properly pull off, but it does save mod slot otherwise.

• Improved jump assist, because you will be vulnerable as soon as you head to and touch the ground.

This is so far, the most important mod to increase chances to survive, especially during outdoor combat, wich happen by most of time, when it actually happens.

• Damage resistance, for obvious reasons.

Now, this is actually waste mod, as it does only increase resists by few %, and the diffrence is minimal, almost non-existent. In most extreme cases, it allows to... take 1 bullet more, thats it.

• Night vision if the CZ is in the dark, otherwise faster shield regen (but that would require two suits).

This mod is required for all-rounder armour setup. There is more times when is actually dark, or outright night, than daylight, and it saves needing second armour for daylight only. As for shield regen, its not as good to have, like stronger battery or more ammo, as it allows for more tactical options vs those dont use it. Explained above how it matters.

...or maybe an Artemis, if you feel confident in dodging shots, so you can take advantage of an even longer jump assist duration...but the biggest drawback is then to be limited to only one primary...

Artemis is also good, if you dont mind having single primary, but in high-end PVP, dominator users usually have upper hand due of dual primary. But this one atleast can fly for long periods of time with jump assists, on low enough G (less than 0,10)... That beind said, when I gank on-foot, I use artemis mostly, since in order to deal with most randoms cmdrs out there, it dont require dual setups for heavy duty PVP.

Primary 1:

Aphelion laser rifle with:

• Scope + increased headshot damage, to increase the likelihood of inflicting real damage once the shield of your target is down.
• Stowed reloading + faster handling, to speed up swapping and aiming, and save time on reloading.

Without headshot dmg, you gonna be out dps on armor vs another laser user who would use headshot dmg. Also, no extra mag size, makes no sense to use stowed otherwise, as stock ammo mag size is depleted in less than 5 sec. Faster handling is overrated, due of it takes away limited slots to make most out of laser. And finnaly, scope is good, but without stability, you not gonna have accurate enough to out dps real deal laser user, on mid to long range - where is most common to have any PVP engage.

Primary 2:

L-6 rocket launcher, for the element of surprise, or when your target is heading to the ground...:

• Stowed reloading + faster handling.
• Increased magazine size + faster reload.

...or Intimidator shotgun, if you feel like you can stick to your target at close range:

• Stowed reloading + faster reload.
• Increased magazine size.
• Scope, which makes a tighter pellet spread, because you might not be able to stick that close to your target.

Top shotgun of them all, its this:
Hip fire accuracy - There is trick/bug, where you combine this with scope, to force pellets into single one ball of doom. An smart choke kinda of sort.
Scope - There is trick/bug, where you combine this with hip accuracy, to force pellets into single one ball of doom. An smart choke kinda of sort.
Headshot dmg - When bugged as above, and if you hit headshot in relative close range, its guaranteed to one-shot fully shielded G5 dominator with extra resists.
Mag size - 3 shots instead of 2.

...or, another Aphelion, so you can quickly reload (whether you are out of ammo, or just want to get back to a full magazine)?

See my dual setup

Secondary:

P-15 kinetic pistol, for when your target's shield is down:

• Stowed reloading + faster handling.

While stowed can be used along mag size, pistol is fast enough by default so faster handling does not help much (its less than 0.5 sec diffrence, unless you are reflex god - you wont be make much out of it)

• Stability, because the recoil is definitely something hard to counter when firing like crazy at your target.

Stabilility is very important to keep sights on target head, during full auto, with basically every weapon. Its must have for kinetic and when using along headshot dmg.

• Increased headshot damage, although hard to nail, when you do (whether by chance or skill), it will hurt A LOT.

Must have for any weapon. In PVP, its what make diffrence when in firefight, who's gonna last longer to tell the tale.

And of course, memorize where the ammo boxes/electric plugs are, and rearm/recharge every time you get the opportunity, and not in the middle of the fight.

Now then, if armor aint have extra ammo and battery, it can be used against its user, in tactical level. When you meet those passive cmdr who does not stick out of cover, they will be sooner forced to change positions, and often it can be fatal for them, if opponents waits for it. I killed so many cmdrs due of that alone.

Any experience on-foot PvPeers out there that could comment, share their experience, and thoughts?

See above

Do Audio masking, Noise suppressor and Quieter footsteps have an effect in PvP?
Like are the shots silent, and the footsteps less audible?

Yep. But this is Elite, simple thing as bandwith, can tell whenever I am alone in instance or not. History tab shows who it is, and there it goes, the "suprise" effect.

 

[Elpapo]

only for L-6 and possibly for Manticore Executioner, for other weapons it is either useless or even harmful (because it does not act instantly when placed in a holster, but it takes a few seconds to activate, which can be harmful in pvp)

Stowed works really well with dual aphelion, and duration of every reload while holster is exacly 5 second. With mag size, aphelion fires longer than it takes for other aphelion to reload, and weapon swap, without faster handling, its faster than reload.

This way, I can basically kept spam lasers, until both runs out of ammo, wich if combined with extra ammo from suit, its enough to out-dps anything else, regadless how they move and range as well. I killed more than hundred cmdrs on foot, and not died even once, since using this loadout... while I could die sometimes, when used "meta" L6 or laser/AR combos, before tryin that.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

For PVP on foot, there is Indoor and Outdoor variety. That being said, PVP on foot is quite rare, atleast it used to.

For Outdoor, the best PVP loadout is dual aphelion spam with P-15 support. Its hitscan, so cant be really evaded. Mods are as follows for both of lasers;

Headshot dmg - Requires good aim, but this is what makes laser really scary, once shields are down.
Mag size - required for simple thing - it allows to keep firing until other aphelion is reloaded. Swap is quick enough - no need faster handling.
Stability - Required to keep sight while full auto, into target head, in any distance.
Stowed Reload - With this, one can spam laser, until both run out of ammo, wich is more than enough to pressure anyone, who dont know how to counter it.

Pistol mods p-15:
Mag size - Less frequent reloads, never is bad, and actually turn this pistol into pocket AR.
Headshot dmg - Big boost to dmg, it takes about 2-3 shots into head to fully kill player G5 domi with resistances.
Stability - When full auto spamming, you want keep your sights on target head. Without it, its not really possible, to constantly score headshots in mid to long range.
Scope - This helps aim to heads + bigger zoom while ADS. Works better than stock in mid to long ranges.

Pistol should be used to finishing off, when they are run out of med packs, or if close enough where dodging kinetics is near impossible.


Armor mods:
Extra ammo - You want much as ammo as possible, to prolong laser spam, and not be forced to camp next to ammo crate.
Extra battery - Without this, you are forced to camp near recharge station or near battery boxes, as with shields its not much of time. On tactical level, its quite disadvantage.
Night vison - Helps when its dark, or when there is tons of shadows... One can always make "day only" version without this mod, and use something else. But not always there will be daylight, so this is more akin to all-rounder.
Jump assist - This is most important mod of all, in order to stay alive. Mobility in air is key.


Now, for every outdoor fights, well as those in mid air, it absolutetly dominated anyone who I came across... Ever since I came out with this idea, never, ever once died to another cmdr while on foot, while using it. But its not as good indoors, there is other "Finer" setups for that.

Why it works so well, your own loadouts are good example:

If you would use such, and meet Me using this, you would simply be out-dps'ed in direct firefight. Also I would have tactical advantage, of being not forced to stay near boxes for ammo refill, as mine would last longer than yours, same is for energy. I would simply be more capable to out-tank your laser as well, by simple diffrence not using headshots dmg, while I would hit your head with lasers dealing way more dmg than you would to me, long as you are in my clear line of sight, and diffrence quite so-so.



For indoor combat, while inside bulidings, same armor can be used. But for indoors, Plasma shotgun while "scope+hip" bugged, makes one-shot from fully shields and health or leaves with tiny bit of health. Thats because it igores shield gate. Good combo with such shotgun, is plain old L-6, as it allows to deliver dmg while target isnt is at line of sight. Shoot into wall, celling or floor near them, it always forces them to move, or if they tank it, they take some dmg, or outright be killed.
Side arm is same pistol as before, as indoors, kinetics cant be easy avoided either.

Well, I saw some quite skilled plasma users, but they always lost due of that I kept my distance. Big dmg if hits, but if it cant hit, its useless. But Shoty in certain setup is favorable indoors.


See my dual aphelion setup above - And headshot dmg is a must here as well.


L-6 can be usefull indoors, mainy due that its hard to avoid while indoors, and it does splash dmg so can be used when target is hiding behind corner or so. Funny part is that splash dmg also benefits from headshot dmg.


Indeed. My loadouts are absolute top choices given limited options and are designed with PVP in mind - designed for maxium efficenty, and absolutely no comfort options.


This can be used in "daylight version" instead of NV, but otherwise is not as good, as without this mod, one can still archive high mobility by utilize holster trick. Its quite difficult to properly pull off, but it does save mod slot otherwise.


This is so far, the most important mod to increase chances to survive, especially during outdoor combat, wich happen by most of time, when it actually happens.


Now, this is actually waste mod, as it does only increase resists by few %, and the diffrence is minimal, almost non-existent. In most extreme cases, it allows to... take 1 bullet more, thats it.


This mod is required for all-rounder armour setup. There is more times when is actually dark, or outright night, than daylight, and it saves needing second armour for daylight only. As for shield regen, its not as good to have, like stronger battery or more ammo, as it allows for more tactical options vs those dont use it. Explained above how it matters.


Artemis is also good, if you dont mind having single primary, but in high-end PVP, dominator users usually have upper hand due of dual primary. But this one atleast can fly for long periods of time with jump assists, on low enough G (less than 0,10)... That beind said, when I gank on-foot, I use artemis mostly, since in order to deal with most randoms cmdrs out there, it dont require dual setups for heavy duty PVP.



Without headshot dmg, you gonna be out dps on armor vs another laser user who would use headshot dmg. Also, no extra mag size, makes no sense to use stowed otherwise, as stock ammo mag size is depleted in less than 5 sec. Faster handling is overrated, due of it takes away limited slots to make most out of laser. And finnaly, scope is good, but without stability, you not gonna have accurate enough to out dps real deal laser user, on mid to long range - where is most common to have any PVP engage.


Top shotgun of them all, its this:
Hip fire accuracy - There is trick/bug, where you combine this with scope, to force pellets into single one ball of doom. An smart choke kinda of sort.
Scope - There is trick/bug, where you combine this with hip accuracy, to force pellets into single one ball of doom. An smart choke kinda of sort.
Headshot dmg - When bugged as above, and if you hit headshot in relative close range, its guaranteed to one-shot fully shielded G5 dominator with extra resists.
Mag size - 3 shots instead of 2.



See my dual setup


While stowed can be used along mag size, pistol is fast enough by default so faster handling does not help much (its less than 0.5 sec diffrence, unless you are reflex god - you wont be make much out of it)


Stabilility is very important to keep sights on target head, during full auto, with basically every weapon. Its must have for kinetic and when using along headshot dmg.


Must have for any weapon. In PVP, its what make diffrence when in firefight, who's gonna last longer to tell the tale.

Now then, if armor aint have extra ammo and battery, it can be used against its user, in tactical level. When you meet those passive cmdr who does not stick out of cover, they will be sooner forced to change positions, and often it can be fatal for them, if opponents waits for it. I killed so many cmdrs due of that alone.


See above



Yep. But this is Elite, simple thing as bandwith, can tell whenever I am alone in instance or not. History tab shows who it is, and there it goes, the "suprise" effect.

Ha! The great Elpapo has finally joined the conversation! Rejoice!

Man, I was that close to start engineering multiple armors and weapons: I just needed to collect 7x Risk assessments to get started...I'm glad I waited since I have now decided to change my loadouts completely! Pity I already upgraded some gear to G5 that came with some now unneeded mods.

Thx for confirming dual Aphelion setup for PvP, which is exactly what I suspected. OK, no faster handling, but instead use mag size and stability (I thought the latter was not necessary on laser, but I trust your experience).

Also, thx for confirming that jump assist is key to PvP fight, although I do understand that one should not use it before engaging PvP, to not give out your position prematurely to other players out there.

About the Intimidator shotgun "scope+hip" bug, I did not know the scope could be comboed with hip to make a tighter pellet spread outside of ADS!
And I did not know it ignores shield gate...which makes actually sense due to firing multiple pellets!

You wrote "L-6 [...] does splash dmg so can be used when target is hiding behind corner or so. Funny part is that splash dmg also benefits from headshot dmg." but it does NOT have a headshot multiplier..? Is the headshot mod adding one??

And yep, after checking the numbers, I was quite shocked that the damage resistance gives only +10%. Any little bits help, but this one is pretty underwhelming :-/ Same for shield regen +25% only (not that bad, but useless when under fire). Likewise, I was not impressed with faster handling after giving it more practice.
There are definitely better mods to consider.

OK, I will consider Artemis when I grow bored, eh eh

BTW, you should write a book "Elite: Become the Danger"!

And, THANKS AGAIN!!!

 

[Elpapo]

Ha! The great Elpapo has finally joined the conversation! Rejoice!

Lol, Ur welcome

Man, I was that close to start engineering multiple armors and weapons: I just needed to collect 7x Risk assessments to get started...I'm glad I waited since I have now decided to change my loadouts completely! Pity I already upgraded some gear to G5 that came with some now unneeded mods.

Thx for confirming dual Aphelion setup for PvP, which is exactly what I suspected. OK, no faster handling, but instead use mag size and stability (I thought the latter was not necessary on laser, but I trust your experience).

Yep, aphelion "kicks" sight a bit, without stability, and when bulid is centred around dual laser headshot dmg, it helps a lot to keep that aim at heads - regardless of distance. Better distance is, then better the odds, and I think I could count on my hands, amount of cmdrs who used headshot dmg on thier laser, hence I had most of times, upper hand when laser vs laser. Its one of most underrated mods for lasers, and simply took advantage of that.

Also, thx for confirming that jump assist is key to PvP fight, although I do understand that one should not use it before engaging PvP, to not give out your position prematurely to other players out there.

Experienced players will know soon after they enter instance, who else is there... by using bandwith. But one can "pretend" and move like npc, to not give position too early, yes.. that being said, I think that about well over 90% cmdrs, I saw on-foot, usually stay in rooftops and fly around, wich makes then quite easy to notice right of bat.

Also, you want always keep 1/4 of jump pack bar, just in case, while mid-air, vs anything that isnt another laser. Kinetics, plasma and rockets have travel time, and even slight change while mid-air, can cause to evade lot of that or even completly if far enough.

About the Intimidator shotgun "scope+hip" bug, I did not know the scope could be comboed with hip to make a tighter pellet spread outside of ADS!
And I did not know it ignores shield gate...which makes actually sense due to firing multiple pellets!

This make that pellets work this way, about wich is 10 or 12 of them, all of it became one ball if ADS. No spread at all (its looks like plasma sniper ball, but with "tail")
To use it, you need only exit and enter ship/srv 6 times, while equiped such shotgun. Lasts until game is exit, or loadout changed.
About shield gate, its common for FPS games (where shields are before health), that multi-shot weapons does bypass that.. normal "spread" is wide enough that only point-blank shot into face, causes all pellets to score headshots... its very unlikely in PVP, to come that much closer to enemy Cmdr.

You wrote "L-6 [...] does splash dmg so can be used when target is hiding behind corner or so. Funny part is that splash dmg also benefits from headshot dmg." but it does NOT have a headshot multiplier..? Is the headshot mod adding one??

Yes, L6 with headshot mod.
Its actually same deal as with laser, as L-6 and lasers, have 1.0x modifer on headshots by default.. headshot mod change this value into 1.5x (50% extra dmg), and funny enough, splash dmg is affected too for L6. Thats why I usually shoot at celling, when used it indoors and it works really well to deal with those in-door campers, as some cmdrs I meet, was very passive and rarely ever leaved thier buliding (mostly where they can camp next to resources, without risk of being flaked)

And yep, after checking the numbers, I was quite shocked that the damage resistance gives only +10%. Any little bits help, but this one is pretty underwhelming :-/ Same for shield regen +25% only (not that bad, but useless when under fire). Likewise, I was not impressed with faster handling after giving it more practice.
There are definitely better mods to consider.

On PVE, it helps a bit, but in PVP, again, extra resists allows tank about 1 bullet more, than without it. Not much helpfull, but it can make bit of diffrence when consider fall-off when during long range firefights, but still, given limited options, there are better choices to use instead.

OK, I will consider Artemis when I grow bored, eh eh

BTW, you should write a book "Elite: Become the Danger"!

And, THANKS AGAIN!!!

No probs. I think that every single advice I wrote both public and private, its enough to write an book (probly)

 

[Raedawn]

Well, the same applies to space combat.
Yet, I only fly PvP capable builds, and still make it (too) easily within the top 25% without even insisting.

My thoughts w.r.t. high vs medium is that the medium ground CZs already feel too easy to me with G3 gear without mods. So pretty sure my coming G5 gear fully modded will be overkill for high CZs, whatever the loadout I end up using.

Most people do them for clear speeds and a pvp build isnt going to be the fastest. You are wrong and it's really that simple.

Had you only cared about ourself and not have been trying to give out general advice then do what you want but your post is general advice and it's terrible.

 

[Elpapo]

Most people do them for clear speeds and a pvp build isnt going to be the fastest.

Your right on one thing... "Most people do them for clear speeds" and this is why they die, when faced against PVP bulid. But dont forget, that PVP on foot, when it happens is likely to be not at CZ's at all...

It never was about "fastest" PVE, but about efficent PVP loadouts wich can be used on-foot, like what is being used and how, when doing PVP on foot.
I think there is diffrence in that.

PVP bulids are made in order kill other cmdrs efficently, and clear speed arent as important, besides, good PVP bulids is equally good in PVE (as PVE is easy), its same as within ship based combat, hence OP asked for advice and opinions, about what he figured out, by own experience. I think this was main point of this thread.

You are wrong and it's really that simple.

About that... there is reasons why PVE setups loses (quite often) to those made for PVP, and I think OP got it right, not wrong. This apply both to on-foot and space based combat... While on-foot PVP is kinda more "tactical" than ship based combat, it still shares some similarites, and OP was right on those...

Had you only cared about ourself and not have been trying to give out general advice then do what you want but your post is general advice and it's terrible.

Each to its own. For Me it looked more like seeking for good advice than giving it, and of course, exchange opinions.

I dont view anyone who makin effort in giving advices or asking for one, regarding PVP, no matter how "terrible" it might seen by others. Besides, OP did also asked for opinions of those who have greater experince, this is never bad. This where I step in, wich did.

You should stop being picky, and look at thing with broader perspecitve. After all, if it looks terrible to you, why bother commenting it, instead giving an actuall usefull info or advice, regardin on topic of course... wich is about PVP, not about efficent PVE, I might add.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Your right on one thing... "Most people do them for clear speeds" and this is why they die, when faced against PVP bulid. But dont forget, that PVP on foot, when it happens is likely to be not at CZ's at all...

It never was about "fastest" PVE, but about efficent PVP loadouts wich can be used on-foot, like what is being used and how, when doing PVP on foot.
I think there is diffrence in that.

PVP bulids are made in order kill other cmdrs efficently, and clear speed arent as important, besides, good PVP bulids is equally good in PVE (as PVE is easy), its same as within ship based combat, hence OP asked for advice and opinions, about what he figured out, by own experience. I think this was main point of this thread.


About that... there is reasons why PVE setups loses (quite often) to those made for PVP, and I think OP got it right, not wrong. This apply both to on-foot and space based combat... While on-foot PVP is kinda more "tactical" than ship based combat, it still shares some similarites, and OP was right on those...


Each to its own. For Me it looked more like seeking for good advice than giving it, and of course, exchange opinions.

I dont view anyone who makin effort in giving advices or asking for one, regarding PVP, no matter how "terrible" it might seen by others. Besides, OP did also asked for opinions of those who have greater experince, this is never bad. This where I step in, wich did.

You should stop being picky, and look at thing with broader perspecitve. After all, if it looks terrible to you, why bother commenting it, instead giving an actuall usefull info or advice, regardin on topic of course... wich is about PVP, not about efficent PVE, I might add.

Yup, my goal was not to give advices, but seek advices (or get some confirmations). And I did get some invaluable ones!

BTW, I believe the title says it all, and I was very careful to use a "?" in it.
But most people don't read titles nowadays.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Any thoughts on the mod Greater range?
I do know that it does not increase the range of the weapon, but its range efficiency (i.e.: less damage falloff, which starts 50% further).

I read somewhere that all weapons have a maximum range of 200m, zeroing out at about 205m. Exception for the L-6 that has 300m max range.
The Aphelion is listed as an effective range of 70m, P-15 as 25m, L-6 as 300m. After the effective range is reached, the damage falloff is linear.

So, by default, the Aphelion would do only 50% damage at 135m, the P-15 would do 37% at the same distance 135m, while the L-6 always does 100% damage.
Using the mod, Aphelion would still do 100% damage at 105m, P-15 would do 100% damage at 37.5m but 58.5% at 105m.
Without the mod, the Aphelion would do only 73% damage at 105m, P-15 would do 54% at the same distance 105m (so not a big difference for the latter with the mod vs without the mod). And the mod would be useless on the L-6?

Not sure if this could be a valid mod for PvP (especially compared to Headshot) since it would be hard to continuously hammer your opponent while keeping a 100m distance (however, the same would be doable in PvE)?
As a remark, with Headshot but no Greater range, Aphelion headshot would do 109% damage at 105m (if you manage to nail it from that distance, that is).

 

[Raedawn]

Yup, my goal was not to give advices, but seek advices (or get some confirmations). And I did get some invaluable ones!

BTW, I believe the title says it all, and I was very careful to use a "?" in it.
But most people don't read titles nowadays.

I read the title and the entire OP.

You stated in speaking about how to prepare for On-Foot CZ's that, "Rather than focusing on the ultimate PvE build, one should stick to a PvP build that will still shred these poor NPCs. The limiting factor in PvE is usually to wait for NPCs to spawn, anyway." This was written from complete ignorance as you stated in your OP you had only done Medium On-Foot CZs and never a single High On-Foot CZ, Which means you claim to understand a topic you of which you have not the least experience and are stating advice on the best means to run them. That you posed a question in your topic heading does not change the fact that the actual content is making a claim that one should run On-Foot CZs in a pvp loadout.

I am just assuring that anyone that might come along and read this thread will not waste time building a pvp build and running pve content with it because you claim that is the way it should be done.

The truth is that in every game I have ever played the pvp and pve tactics (and where possible) loadouts one uses for each should be mutually exclusive as one is never the correct method for the other.

In the future, should you want to only discuss pvp, then do just that and leave all the inane, ignorant and grossly misleading pve ramblings out of the post.

 

[Raedawn]

Your right on one thing... "Most people do them for clear speeds" and this is why they die, when faced against PVP bulid. But dont forget, that PVP on foot, when it happens is likely to be not at CZ's at all...

It never was about "fastest" PVE, but about efficent PVP loadouts wich can be used on-foot, like what is being used and how, when doing PVP on foot.
I think there is diffrence in that.

PVP bulids are made in order kill other cmdrs efficently, and clear speed arent as important, besides, good PVP bulids is equally good in PVE (as PVE is easy), its same as within ship based combat, hence OP asked for advice and opinions, about what he figured out, by own experience. I think this was main point of this thread.


About that... there is reasons why PVE setups loses (quite often) to those made for PVP, and I think OP got it right, not wrong. This apply both to on-foot and space based combat... While on-foot PVP is kinda more "tactical" than ship based combat, it still shares some similarites, and OP was right on those...


Each to its own. For Me it looked more like seeking for good advice than giving it, and of course, exchange opinions.

I dont view anyone who makin effort in giving advices or asking for one, regarding PVP, no matter how "terrible" it might seen by others. Besides, OP did also asked for opinions of those who have greater experince, this is never bad. This where I step in, wich did.

You should stop being picky, and look at thing with broader perspecitve. After all, if it looks terrible to you, why bother commenting it, instead giving an actuall usefull info or advice, regardin on topic of course... wich is about PVP, not about efficent PVE, I might

I wish I had not quoted your entire rambling retort but oh well.

I don't care the least about pvp nor the part of this conversation that states anything about using a pve build vs a pvp one, that would be stupid in any game I have ever played.

The part I care about is that the OP is making a claim the the best pve loadout is a pvp one. Had he not included a single word about pve, his argument would have had better focused and not include garbage advice to people about how to run On-Foot CZ's: a topic that; by his own admission, he knows almost nothing about.

 

[Elpapo]

I wish I had not quoted your entire rambling retort but oh well.

Now that not really nice attitude, says lot about character. Mouthy are we, eh? Well, thats about all you can do.

This avatar of yours... its looks lots like one of small-fry random cmdr, wich explodes soon after being interdicted, if happen chose open mode by mistake.

I don't care the least about pvp nor the part of this conversation that states anything about using a pve build vs a pvp one, that would be stupid in any game I have ever played.

The part I care about is that the OP is making a claim the the best pve loadout is a pvp one.

"Rather than focusing on the ultimate PvE build, one should stick to a PvP build that will still shred these poor NPCs. The limiting factor in PvE is usually to wait for NPCs to spawn, anyway."

OP by previously doing PVE with ships, and recently started doing PVP, simply stated obvious fact by that;

Good PVP loadout, not only is good at PVP, but same as good for PVE any kind of - thats correct conclusion on OP part - and I agree. And if I agree, then its correct.
One does not even need ever set foot on high CZ, to know this much, since similar thing is with space based combat. PVP ships, absolutely dominates PVE ones, in PVE.

Same "rule" apply for any kind of PVE on foot, with PVP bulids - you seem not realize this, but since obviously you aint seem like ever done any PVP at all.

Had he not included a single word about pve, his argument would have had better focused and not include garbage advice to people about how to run On-Foot CZ's: a topic that; by his own admission, he knows almost nothing about.

Again, this thread is not about so-called "advice to people about how to run On-Foot CZ's" but about PVP loadouts, nothing less or more. Heck even OP admited this much.

On other hand, again, you seem like one who have no any idea about PVP in this game, yet act like arrogant bigshot, quite amusing, coming from cmdr who barely started playing 1 year ago, maybe litte more.

Any thoughts on the mod Greater range?
I do know that it does not increase the range of the weapon, but its range efficiency (i.e.: less damage falloff, which starts 50% further).

I read somewhere that all weapons have a maximum range of 200m, zeroing out at about 205m. Exception for the L-6 that has 300m max range.
The Aphelion is listed as an effective range of 70m, P-15 as 25m, L-6 as 300m. After the effective range is reached, the damage falloff is linear.

So, by default, the Aphelion would do only 50% damage at 135m, the P-15 would do 37% at the same distance 135m, while the L-6 always does 100% damage.
Using the mod, Aphelion would still do 100% damage at 105m, P-15 would do 100% damage at 37.5m but 58.5% at 105m.
Without the mod, the Aphelion would do only 73% damage at 105m, P-15 would do 54% at the same distance 105m (so not a big difference for the latter with the mod vs without the mod). And the mod would be useless on the L-6?

Not sure if this could be a valid mod for PvP (especially compared to Headshot) since it would be hard to continuously hammer your opponent while keeping a 100m distance (however, the same would be doable in PvE)?
As a remark, with Headshot but no Greater range, Aphelion headshot would do 109% damage at 105m (if you manage to nail it from that distance, that is).

Yep, its useless on L6.
L6 300m is because being meant as tool to use vs vechicles and ships, hence larger range than other weps.

On aphelion, wich have one of highest default range, it can be used, but given limited options, there are better choices. After all, it does nothing to help when closer than 70m, while are some other options wich does.

With laser loadout, its hard to keep distance that big, but in other hand, its not hard to keep 50 to 70m, where every bullet with travel times, can be still dodged, and laser would still hurt fully.

 

[Raedawn]

Now that not really nice attitude, says lot about character. Mouthy are we, eh? Well, thats about all you can do.

This avatar of yours... its looks lots like one of small-fry random cmdr, wich explodes soon after being interdicted, if happen chose open mode by mistake.




"Rather than focusing on the ultimate PvE build, one should stick to a PvP build that will still shred these poor NPCs. The limiting factor in PvE is usually to wait for NPCs to spawn, anyway."

OP by previously doing PVE with ships, and recently started doing PVP, simply stated obvious fact by that;

Good PVP loadout, not only is good at PVP, but same as good for PVE any kind of - thats correct conclusion on OP part - and I agree. And if I agree, then its correct.
One does not even need ever set foot on high CZ, to know this much, since similar thing is with space based combat. PVP ships, absolutely dominates PVE ones, in PVE.

Same "rule" apply for any kind of PVE on foot, with PVP bulids - you seem not realize this, but since obviously you aint seem like ever done any PVP at all.



Again, this thread is not about so-called "advice to people about how to run On-Foot CZ's" but about PVP loadouts, nothing less or more. Heck even OP admited this much.

On other hand, again, you seem like one who have no any idea about PVP in this game, yet act like arrogant bigshot, quite amusing, coming from cmdr who barely started playing 1 year ago, maybe litte more.






Yep, its useless on L6.
L6 300m is because being meant as tool to use vs vechicles and ships, hence larger range than other weps.

On aphelion, wich have one of highest default range, it can be used, but given limited options, there are better choices. After all, it does nothing to help when closer than 70m, while are some other options wich does.

With laser loadout, its hard to keep distance that big, but in other hand, its not had to keep 50 to 70m, where every bullet with travel times, can be still dodged, and laser would still hurt fully

The length of your respective dissertation efforts does not make you nor the OP correct as to how to properly run pve content and yes the launcher is standard for clearing High On-Foot CZ's.

 

[Elpapo]

does not make you nor the OP correct as to how to properly run pve content

"properly run pve content"

You can run "properly" all of PVE (onfoot - same deal with ships) with literally anything, any loadout, even on high CZ or defend missions - but if you dont understood as much, well as you really dont get OP point of this thread, so dont speak and act like some kind of bigshot, cuz you clearly aint one.

 

[Raedawn]

"properly run pve content"

You can run "properly" all of PVE (onfoot - same deal with ships) with literally anything, any loadout, even on high CZ or defend missions - but if you dont understood as much, well as you really dont get OP point of this thread, so dont speak and act like some kind of bigshot, cuz you clearly aint one.

Being able to run High CZs; I made clear earlier. was possible naked with a water pistol but that isn't how they are actually run, they are run with dual-launchers. Advising anyone to run pve content in a pvp build is poor advice.

p.s. Thanks for the Brevity this time.

 

[SteveWW57]

IMO the build for ground CZs should take into account at least a couple of things. CMDR preferences and whether low/med/high. Unless organised, PvP will be very rare and the best loadouts for that are likely to be different from PvE. In PvP there is no such thing as a fair fight, so I would go with the SRV/ship combo to take out an enemy CMDR.

In PvE, in low CZs I can run around with a tormentor, and a C-44 or Intimidator. For med CZs I could get away with a Tormentor and an Intimidator, although an Executioner may be better. For high CZs the Executioner is the main weapon backed up with a Tormentor. These loadouts are based on the threat to me. Low CZs are not very dangerous, so I can afford to get close. Mediums get a bit more difficult and longer ranged fights. For highs, I want to stay as far away as possible from the enemy, just like I would against another CMDR even in a low. I believe that other CMDRs should be kept as far away as possible, which allows moving out of sight more easily.

CMDR skill probably trumps loadout. The willingness to become a casualty also has an effect.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

IMO the build for ground CZs should take into account at least a couple of things. CMDR preferences and whether low/med/high. Unless organised, PvP will be very rare and the best loadouts for that are likely to be different from PvE. In PvP there is no such thing as a fair fight, so I would go with the SRV/ship combo to take out an enemy CMDR.

In PvE, in low CZs I can run around with a tormentor, and a C-44 or Intimidator. For med CZs I could get away with a Tormentor and an Intimidator, although an Executioner may be better. For high CZs the Executioner is the main weapon backed up with a Tormentor. These loadouts are based on the threat to me. Low CZs are not very dangerous, so I can afford to get close. Mediums get a bit more difficult and longer ranged fights. For highs, I want to stay as far away as possible from the enemy, just like I would against another CMDR even in a low. I believe that other CMDRs should be kept as far away as possible, which allows moving out of sight more easily.

CMDR skill probably trumps loadout. The willingness to become a casualty also has an effect.

PvP does happen during a CZ-based CG. I confirmed that during the last one, although the other cmdrs were siding with me. This is the main reason I want to use and get used to PvP loadouts.

I got the opportunity yesterday to test my new dual Aphelion + P15 at some settlements (I was getting merits for Power Play), where I even got the alarm triggered at one, and reinforcement started to come from all corners and rained from the sky. Not a high CZ, I know, but that was pretty hectic.
Really cool to be able to non-stop cut through shield like a hot knife cut through butter (swapping gun while the other reloads), and with twice the ammo (on top of extra ammo suit mod). With then a few shot of P-15 with stability mod (hammering the mouse button like crazy fast), get unshielded NPC's down instantly.
Time will tell when I get there, but pretty sure this is a perfectly fine loadout for high CZ.

 

[Koma Pahu]

The truth is that in every game I have ever played the pvp and pve tactics (and where possible) loadouts one uses for each should be mutually exclusive as one is never the correct method for the other.

In the future, should you want to only discuss pvp, then do just that and leave all the inane, ignorant and grossly misleading pve ramblings out of the post.

I mean, I went straight into High CZs from day one. I died and respawned a few times, but by the time I’d G3ed my suit I was regularly running out of ammo and suit charge.

It all depends on what you want. If you want to blow all the NPCs up as they land then build the NPC meta, if you want to have fun build whatever you like - a moderately skilled player easily outclasses the on foot NPCs in ED.

I can survive, and win CZs with some of the PvP suggested builds happily, and you’d also have a build that can hold its own if you stumble across a player.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I mean, I went straight into High CZs from day one. I died and respawned a few times, but by the time I’d G3ed my suit I was regularly running out of ammo and suit charge.

It all depends on what you want. If you want to blow all the NPCs up as they land then build the NPC meta, if you want to have fun build whatever you like - a moderately skilled player easily outclasses the on foot NPCs in ED.

I can survive, and win CZs with some of the PvP suggested builds happily, and you’d also have a build that can hold its own if you stumble across a player.

About that, my current PvP build suit has extra battery, extra ammo. My dual Aphelion has magazine size.
I did one CZ yesterday and was not familiar with the layout: could not find the damn ammo box and plug at first!
I actually lasted pretty long until one of my guns ran out of ammo, which was good!

BTW @Elpapo, stability does make a HUGE difference on the Aphelion!
I can very efficiently stick to my headshots, or continuously snipe from very far, much easier than I was used to without the mod!

 

[Elpapo]

About that, my current PvP build suit has extra battery, extra ammo.

Dominator, with stock 10,00 mw battery, once shields are on, its matter of just few mins, to be depleted of energy.
And there are only 2 battery on dominator, so its kinda crucial to make it last longer. As with that perk, from 10 it goes to 15, and spare energy goes from 20 to 30.

One cannot always keep thier shields online for all times, and there is always bunch of cmdrs, who likes to stall much as possible, so mind games are also on menu, when there is actually PVP with opposing cmdrs... because this one thing; The one who have thier shields last longer, will win. (when there is heavy stalling/camp going on)

On every layout, there are bunch recharge station, wich can be zapped, to be turned off. If its CZ, there are temporary tripod recharge ones. Non-CZ have usual wall ones.

And battery boxes or those found at walls, can be "eaten" away to prevent being used by enemy, so in fact, there is finite amount of total energy per each instance, and as cmdr you can decide on every map/layout, where energy is or was, as during CZ's, the enemy cmdr will be respawned after being killed, it always takes bunch of seconds. During those enemy respawns, those momements are to do exacly this, and making local settlement favorable for you, than it is for enemy. After killing enemy cmdrs like 3 or 4 times (they notice they are outgunned in outdoor, they usualy begin to camp indoors - if not rage quited yet), by that much time, you can basically turn map into your own advantage, where remain energy is left, they cant really camp either or stall for too long.

There is bunch of other tactical uses from that. Simple battery upgrade, turns be very curcial.

My dual Aphelion has magazine size.
I did one CZ yesterday and was not familiar with the layout: could not find the damn ammo box and plug at first!
I actually lasted pretty long until one of my guns ran out of ammo, which was good!

Good. Yep, this setup is likely to outlast anything else. Its truly efficent. Of course thats only with extra ammo.

stability does make a HUGE difference on the Aphelion!
I can very efficiently stick to my headshots, or continuously snipe from very far, much easier than I was used to without the mod!

See, told ya

Yep, behold with true power of this weapon.

Properly bulided Aphelion is no.1 for cmdr killing, becasue if long as there is clear line of sight, no matter what distance, and no matter what opponent does, whenever they try dodge or jump, if hard cover isnt is utilized, target is forced either to spend thier med packs, while try get into cover, or outright die. Those headshots hurts a lot, takes away quite big chunks of health, so its not really long either, to just body-shot anyone(PVP) and anything (npc) with mag or two, from a distance, while going for headshots makes it even faster. Its ToT weapon, wich instantly hits, since its hitscan, and deadpoint accurate. Unlike rest of available weapons, only other lasers users can counter it.

Plasma, rockets, or kinetic users are in very serious disadvantage, because unless they get quite close (wich can be really difficult), as otherwise they wont be able to outdps this setup, and thier shots still can be easly avoided, so its even worse during firefight for them further.

PvP does happen during a CZ-based CG. I confirmed that during the last one, although the other cmdrs were siding with me. This is the main reason I want to use and get used to PvP loadouts.

I got the opportunity yesterday to test my new dual Aphelion + P15 at some settlements (I was getting merits for Power Play), where I even got the alarm triggered at one, and reinforcement started to come from all corners and rained from the sky. Not a high CZ, I know, but that was pretty hectic.
Really cool to be able to non-stop cut through shield like a hot knife cut through butter (swapping gun while the other reloads), and with twice the ammo (on top of extra ammo suit mod). With then a few shot of P-15 with stability mod (hammering the mouse button like crazy fast), get unshielded NPC's down instantly.
Time will tell when I get there, but pretty sure this is a perfectly fine loadout for high CZ.

This works basically same vs cmdrs. Thier shields well as distance is meaningless. Everything is connected works with each other. Each weapon from this loadout and thier mods, each of suit mods, the "synergy" is at its maxiumum level.


Of course, in very end how this setup is being used, as even best of swords, when not used correctly, to be beaten down. But once mastered, its really something.


Im glad someone truly did listen this time and bring actual result. o7

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

[...]On every layout, there are bunch recharge station, wich can be zapped, to be turned off. If its CZ, there are temporary tripod recharge ones. Non-CZ have usual wall ones.[...]

Omy! I did not know you can zap them!
Awesomely evilish thing to do!!! :-D