Open-Only in PP2.0?

Because ED is not a game where everything is evenly matched in everything you do and that situations will throw up problems- remember the you v the uncaring galaxy'? Powerplay takes this further where you are told to expect trouble in service- through a series of your own choices you'll come across a situation thats difficult.

I've thought in similar terms for 'standard' Power ships, except that its a choice, and you get free rebuys when used.

I don't mind the galaxy being uncaring. But we are talking about engaging in something against other players that do care.

However, i'm pointing out the inherent imbalance here and claims of how people should be "brave" while those most in favour of this change don't have to be. Its rather hypocritical don't you think?

I've never been a fan of PvP games where there is an inherent imbalance between players/teams, and that's why i only engage in PvP games where there is balance between players.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
While you are right about the BGS, the BGS is not explicitly competitive with disparate powers, have Top 10 pilots, and have defined phases of expansion or tugs of war.

V2 has all of that, and tells you in no uncertain terms (unlike the BGS little bars) the strength and number of opposition. I also assume V2 will have bounty boards for Powerplay like V1 did, so you can map others directly to Powerplay shenanigans.

As such open (where you can neuter opponents directly) should be seen as something different to solo.
Indeed - noting that it still doesn't require any player to play in Open to engage in it.
 
I don't know for sure, but it speaks volumes about the popularity of powerplay 1 if one of 11 powers is so poorly supported. I can't imagine them being much more popular with PP2. As you say, other powers are bigger, by far. I'd be interested in knowing what "by far" actually means. Are we talking tens of regular players? Hundreds? Thousands? Unlikely considering the size of the player base in total.
Some powers are simply small because they don't appeal to people. If you join Power discords you can get a decent idea yourself, and map power progress to what players are tasked with.

How many people regularly play ED? A few thousand? Ten thousand? 20? 30? How many people are interested (or would be interested) in PP, either mixed mode or open only? Are we even talking double digit % of players? 50% or more seems a stretch. Even 20% might be pushing it.
It depends on how you look at it- those who play to push the strategic metagame and those who want rewards. V2 has great rewards (probably the best out of the game and ongoing for 'free') so this line will blur (especially so when any activity counts). Given too that module access is linked to being pledged (as in, buying more) you might have many more players- at least until they reach Tier 11 care package level.

With PP2, even getting a couple of thousand players regularly engaging over 12 powers, you're not looking at huge numbers. I'd guess less than 100 supporters of a particular power on at any given time of the day, much worse for an unpopular power.

I suppose based on that, i can understand why you'd want everyone in open. Even if it was, chances of meeting another player from your own or an opposing power is still going to be pretty slim unless its a busy system.
Powerplay also has areas of interest to funnel players- V1 was the control system, capital and expansion. V2 also has them, plus strongholds as well as organically arising pressure point systems coupled with tug of war (and not 100% and done) mechanics. So if we were talking about being spread over the entire galaxy I'd agree, but its not. Established power groups will still push, the only difference is you'll have other non-aligned players elsewhere too.

Finally, keep in mind, that while open only might attract some players, it might turn off some players. Then keep in mind which sorts of players open only would attract and which sorts of players it would turn away.
The polls that asked the question saw that those lost would have been replaced twice over. In the end if its open / weighted or not, the feature has to be consistent otherwise it will end up like V1.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
But it does support direct competition between people on equal footing with you.
For those who choose to abide by out-of-game rules, certainly.
Unless NPCs act like players thats not going to happen in Powerplays strategic game.
It remains to be seen how much interest, and at what level of challenge, NPCs will take in those pledged when going about their business. Noting that Powerplay 2.0 seems to be "simply playing the game while pledged" (with twelve teams in opposition).
 
Yet the Open only proponents expect everyone else to match their preferred, but optional, gameplay preference?
Shall we do away with every ship bar a T-9 and have no undermining in Powerplay so that everything is 'fair'- becoming the CQC of hauling?

The problem is no task, player or ship will ever line up with other players or activity in a game thats free-form like ED and Powerplay. Powerplay has NPCs and players tasked with seeking out others to destroy (its even in the UI for V2).
 
For those who choose to abide by out-of-game rules, certainly.

It remains to be seen how much interest, and at what level of challenge, NPCs will take in those pledged when going about their business. Noting that Powerplay 2.0 seems to be "simply playing the game while pledged" (with twelve teams in opposition).
We will just have to see. The balance FD have to strike is NPCs that affect players enough to be actually worthwhile existing. And as stated earlier that has to scale, otherwsie solo will be the easier of the modes and be detrimental to the PvP aspects like UM kills and PP FC sabotage.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Shall we do away with every ship bar a T-9 and have no undermining in Powerplay so that everything is 'fair'- becoming the CQC of hauling?
We're way beyond the days of a single ship with few loadout options. Noting that limiting Powerplay 2.0 to specific (and carefully crafted) loadouts per ship would likely go a long way to equalising the challenge.
The problem is no task, player or ship will ever line up with other players or activity in a game thats free-form like ED and Powerplay.
Nor is it likely to - noting that some players are not any fun at all to play alongside. Put differently NPCs aren't programmed to follow some particularly poor player behaviours.
Powerplay has NPCs and players tasked with seeking out others to destroy (its even in the UI for V2).
Indeed - noting that the players remain completely optional as ever.
 
Hmm, now I wondering if the less supporters a power has, the easier it will be to place top 10 cmdrs for the ARX rewards.
I think thats the general idea- from what I can remember, one idea was a pool of money is shared between pledges- so if you have 10 you have a tenth and if you have a hundred its a hundreth share. So if you are after rewards (I think ARX was seen) smaller powers will be less competitive.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
We will just have to see. The balance FD have to strike is NPCs that affect players enough to be actually worthwhile existing. And as stated earlier that has to scale, otherwsie solo will be the easier of the modes and be detrimental to the PvP aspects like UM kills and PP FC sabotage.
Indeed - and they should scale to challenge all participants, i.e. those in the G5 murderboats [edit: in any game mode] that don't face any real challenge from anything but a skilled player in a similar ship (and even then, given the complaints about top tier PvP taking too long, effectively optional even then).
 
We're way beyond the days of a single ship with few loadout options. Noting that limiting Powerplay 2.0 to specific (and carefully crafted) loadouts per ship would likely go a long way to equalising the challenge.
But thats the only way you'd ever have everything in total balance. Even with careful loadouts you'd never achieve it.

Out of curousity, what would you consider a balanced hunter and hauler ship?

Nor is it likely to - noting that some players are not any fun at all to play alongside. Put differently NPCs aren't programmed to follow some particularly poor player behaviours.
How is NPC behaviour better when the ultimate aim (and worst they can do) is shoot you down? The only difference is the NPCs don't actually risk anything or strategize.

Indeed - noting that the players remain completely optional as ever.
But the task is still the same- destroy.
 
So if you are after rewards (I think ARX was seen) smaller powers will be less competitive.
Yup, there are ARX rewards.

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Looks like I'll be supporting either Antal or Granny Torval then 😃
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
But thats the only way you'd ever have everything in total balance. Even with careful loadouts you'd never achieve it.

Out of curousity, what would you consider a balanced hunter and hauler ship?
No clue whatsoever - that'd be for those more skilled in the art to develop a working compromise that favoured neither the hunter group nor the hauler group.
How is NPC behaviour better when the ultimate aim (and worst they can do) is shoot you down? The only difference is the NPCs don't actually risk anything or strategize.
They don't salt-mine in the way that some players obviously do, their taunts are fixed and have been seen so many times they can be ignored, they don't toy with their prey either.
But the task is still the same- destroy.
Indeed, abiding by Frontier's rules of engagement. Noting that, unlike players, NPCs are not optional.
 
Yup, there are ARX rewards.

Well, you have a screenshot clearly marked as Work In Progress vs. the statement in the Q&A which conspicuously fails to mention Arx

What non-credit rewards are planned for Powerplay 2.0?
There are perks that give benefits in your Powers systems, care packages that reward credits and engineering materials and module unlocks unique to Powerplay.

Though FD could be keeping this back as a surprise I suppose.
 
No clue whatsoever - that'd be for those more skilled in the art to develop a working compromise that favoured neither the hunter group nor the hauler group.

They don't salt-mine in the way that some players obviously do, their taunts are fixed and have been seen so many times they can be ignored, they don't toy with their prey either.

Indeed, abiding by Frontier's rules of engagement.
While I agree things like excessively fruity banter should be blockable (I thought it was already?) I'm not exactly getting the 'toying' part- in PP at least because its about efficency. But then I'd be fine if non pledges were blockable.

Indeed, abiding by Frontier's rules of engagement.
Which are? Shoot until they are exploded? The problem PP NPCs have is they inherited EDs weaknesses from the wider game and don't take enough chances.

No clue whatsoever - that'd be for those more skilled in the art to develop a working compromise that favoured neither the hunter group nor the hauler group.
But how though? To pair you'd need far too many variables- Clipper V Viper Mk 4? FDL V Cutter? Eagle V Hauler? What weapons and TTK would be acceptable / cargo acceptable?
 
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