That's precisely what I first thought Piers implied, but I had to relisten to the same section a few times and he didn't... but they could certainly still implement it that way. Not sure how you'd explain that lore wise though because the initial star port is presumably just a standard one.
Opinion: 10 LY range for colonization is ridiculously low.
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
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I'd just like to point out, Ivor Biggun is an NPC name.
I'll believe it when i see it, tbh. Unless an economic rework happens, baseline FCs still aren't worth more than 1b.
What makes me lean towards the cheap/effort here is that the goods they mentioned (bulk building materials, computers) are cheap.
Even if you had to haul 100kT of tritium to build something, the 5b paid for the tritium would be nothing compared to the hauling effort.
It will make things feel more crowded, in a much smaller range of space. A wider range will be less crowded, but mean that it takes a very short time for a huge area around the bubble to only be a few jumps away from an inhabited system.
I agree that the main factor will likely be how fast each single colony can be established, but in the absence of data we have to assume that it's limited by the weekly tick. Can a determined single player do it in one week, or will it require a player group? We'll find out in due course.
The number of players is a tough one to predict. I expect with week 1 of colonisation that will not be the limiting factor, the limiting factor will be that there won't be enough 'good' systems for all players that wish to participate. I don't expect that everyone who wants to will just claim any old system just because they can, and finding 'premium' systems and figuring out the ruleset for that will be the real limiting factor until players get the hang of it. That will hopefully be more apparent before the end of the Beta.
Everyone can see the appeal of setting up you own home out in the black... until someone else comes along and builds their home right beside yours, and it isn't 'the black' any more.I think you're also forgetting that a great many players don't want and don't like being in the bubble. There are thousands of explorers in Elite, people who enjoy being out in the black. Releasing a colonisation feature but limiting it only to players and player groups that want to stay in the bubble will alienate a huge volume of the player base as the feature to them, as it is to me, is utterly useless.
To give you one example...
There's also the point that there are already colonies out in the black that didn't take 77 years to build. Colonia, Explorer's Anchorage, and the Heart and Soul nebulae are just a few.
- A player group that enjoys war with the Thargoids -
- A player group that has been set up to do piracy -
- A player group involved with the Fuel Rats -
And it's worth stating, from a lore perspective, that we're talking about individual commander colonisation here. While in IRL we're the main force in the galaxy, in-Universe we aren't the biggest force, so just because there are systems out in distant places already doesn't mean it's reasonable that a Commander should be able to do the same thing solo.
I get and agree with the reasoning for a low LY range: avoid turning all galaxy regions habitable too quickly.
I also agree 10ly is really low indeed. Maybe a range around up to 50ly, maybe 100ly, could still be low enough, but also flexible enough as well.
Some rudimentary math:
Colonia - Sag A distance: 11000 ly
Maybe the larger the range, the higher the costs involved could be a way too?
I hope we can still find very very large portions of the galaxy preserved without human bubbles too close to it
I also agree 10ly is really low indeed. Maybe a range around up to 50ly, maybe 100ly, could still be low enough, but also flexible enough as well.
Some rudimentary math:
Colonia - Sag A distance: 11000 ly
- With a 10ly range: 11000 ly / 10 ly range = 1100 cycles / 52 weeks a year = 21.1 years (efforts going one way only)
- 20ly range: 11000 ly / 20 ly = 550 cycles / 52 weeks a year = 10.6 years (one way only)
- 50ly range: 11000 ly / 50 ly = 220 cycles / 52 weeks = 4.2 years
- 100ly range: 11000 ly / 100 ly = 110 cycles / 52 weeks = 2.1 years
- 500ly range: 11000 ly / 500 ly = 22 cycles / 52 weeks = 0.4 years (5 months)
Maybe the larger the range, the higher the costs involved could be a way too?
I hope we can still find very very large portions of the galaxy preserved without human bubbles too close to it
There goes the neighbourhood!
Slightly more subtle than Biggus .... well you probably know the rest.
But as soon as you get to 20ly, parts of the existing game begin to break, because that number pops up in the mission engine, BGS lore, BGS hard-and-fast rules, and in PP 2.0 mechanics.
If you make it over 20ly, PP 2.0 and BGS and missions and interstellar factors and the explo data limit and things I can't think of in two minutes will all need a redo.
In short, if it goes over 20ly, you'll need a different mode of settlement that is taken out of BGS and PP 2.0. That's a lot of development.
...and my guess is FD really doesn't want to go down the path of manually adjusting systems. A functional BGS in the colonies takes a big load off their shoulders.
I think part of the argument is it would be nice if we could set up systems that break away from PP and the BGS, and i don't see it adding more development. There are already systems separated more than 20LY from any other.
EDIT: Just to add, beyond the obvious examples, there is a system with 3 anarchy factions in it. No other factions can expand into it, its just too far. BGS works just fine there between the 3 existing factions.
If we had the ability to set up way out in the black, then there would be just one faction. That one faction would still work according to existing BGS rules. Famines and outbreaks could happen. Boom could happen. Just with less liklihood due to less stuff going on BGS wise.
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20 ly is still low. I think Frontier are at risk of this being basically the sport of a few groups and precious few others. How many people are going to chain like 100 systems just so they can get 2k light years out? That's a couple years worth of exclusive effort.
10 ly is just very, very grindy. Pegging it to the bubble doubles down on that. If the BGS needs some work to support longer distances, then it should probably get that work.
100% this. If FD went over 20LY, my schadenfreude awaits the flurry of "Why does all this stuff not work in my colony!" complaints.
These limits have been in the game since inception... people only notice it when the next update or FOTM thing suffers for it.. but that's what happens when you build on unstable foundations.
The BGS needing some work, should not be a reason to entrench 10ly as the range. Frontier itself has said they're starting at that point and would see how it lands.
Of all the reasons to look at the BGS rules, colonisation is probably one of the better ones.
I also think it's low. The point is FDev are stuck with it unless they carry out major internal surgery, all of which will affect every system in the bubble and the dynamic of all existing factions, player or otherwise. It's not about what's "good," it's about what's practically possible in a first iteration.
No, but the BGS needing some work is a reason to entrench 20ly as the range.
It's funny how cmdrs are adamant that 10-20ly is the maximum and yet Frontier are pretty happy to start with 10 and increase if needed.
Maybe they know something all the armchair experts don't.
When some players have 1 trillion credits what is expensive ?
And the median player?
At some point you have to use credits, otherwise what are they for?