Pay2Win made it to Elite
- Thread starter Einar Donarsson
- Start date
They just need to sort out the store we've had months of people unable to buy or even get what they paid for because of a known issue Since before Jan .
Main difference between a game company selling assets, and the traditional gold sellers. A company selling assets in the game they operate is pretty predatory, but the only victims are those who decide to buy. For the video game company, adding those assets is as easy as flipping a switch.
Traditional gold sellers typically obtain the assets they sell in one of three ways:
- hacking accounts
- sweat shops in 3rd world countries
- slave labor
I am OK with this, so long as:
1. No real advantage other than time saving.
2. The stats on any given ship are the same as what you can buy for Cr.
3. Likewise, if equipped "Pre Engineered" (another time save), then the engineered kit must not be any better than what can be achieved with time in game.
I've been playing since the first beta, if this helps new players and keeps FDev in funds, no problem.
I doubt I'll buy anything, tempted by the Python Mk2 but I'll probably just watch someone's review on youtube and wait 3 months.
The learning curve for Elite is steep, I don't see this as P2W, I think for most it will be "bought this, thought it would help, still died", they'll complain and someone will respond "git gud".
07 CMDRs
1. No real advantage other than time saving.
2. The stats on any given ship are the same as what you can buy for Cr.
3. Likewise, if equipped "Pre Engineered" (another time save), then the engineered kit must not be any better than what can be achieved with time in game.
I've been playing since the first beta, if this helps new players and keeps FDev in funds, no problem.
I doubt I'll buy anything, tempted by the Python Mk2 but I'll probably just watch someone's review on youtube and wait 3 months.
The learning curve for Elite is steep, I don't see this as P2W, I think for most it will be "bought this, thought it would help, still died", they'll complain and someone will respond "git gud".
07 CMDRs
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah I know mate. I spent enough years in World of Warcraft back in a day
Should have probably put a winky face to my comment
Yeah I know mate. I spent enough years in World of Warcraft back in a day
Should have probably put a winky face to my comment
You should've... though IME there's a lot of willful ignorance out there, about a lot of topics.
PvP is the area where you can argue that the P2W aspect matters most on an individual level and it's what they chose to go with for the first time limited exclusive ship.
It doesn't matter if the ship turns out bad and not worth buying the optics of the intent there look bad in the same way most other P2W games do.
If it's true that only a small number buy it to own noobs in PvP then it's still a bad move by FDev because it just looks like they kinda tried to make a ship whose advertised selling point (for real money) is that you can maybe clown on people who don't want to spend more money on Elite for 3 months.
P2W doesn't have to be an "i win" button here, just something that gives people an advantage over others - obviously people who are already good would gain the most from it.
There will be other ships more focused on other roles that might have more players interested in them, but the exclusivity there might matter less unless there's going to be exploration/trade ships and CGs that focus on those things during that period.
we need a Larian or hello games in the space combat / privateer sim genre.
but yea, you can't win in this game by paying. there's nothing to win and barely any multiplayer gameplay that would be impacted by it. cheating has been going on for most of the game's life and it doesn't really impact it.
you would have to be pretty special to pay fdev for early access. given how pointless that's been every other time.
this game would have been better if they just ended it at this stalemate invasion. then have the next elite game (developed by a different studio) take place a hundred years from now after humanity lost the war... and the thargoids have retreated back into dormancy...mostly. and players have to eek out an existence scattered out in the black in small settlements scavenging ancient wrecks for parts and upgrades and rediscover lost colonies and remnants of long dead civilizations and perhaps the secrets to surviving the thargoids once and for all...
but yea, you can't win in this game by paying. there's nothing to win and barely any multiplayer gameplay that would be impacted by it. cheating has been going on for most of the game's life and it doesn't really impact it.
you would have to be pretty special to pay fdev for early access. given how pointless that's been every other time.
this game would have been better if they just ended it at this stalemate invasion. then have the next elite game (developed by a different studio) take place a hundred years from now after humanity lost the war... and the thargoids have retreated back into dormancy...mostly. and players have to eek out an existence scattered out in the black in small settlements scavenging ancient wrecks for parts and upgrades and rediscover lost colonies and remnants of long dead civilizations and perhaps the secrets to surviving the thargoids once and for all...
I feel like this question is a reflexive troll at this point to P2W accusations. It never adds anything and always fails analysis of the common use of the term and its inclusion of pay to skip or pay for power in potentially competitive scenarios.
It's way easier to nitpick over the terminology used than actually discuss the topic with arguments that could potentially be refuted (unlike "buying it doesn't give a "YOU WIN" screen)
This is not what I Kickstarted this game for. Not at all.
This is just a kick in the face to those who have spent a lot of time, years in many cases, earning the things they have in the game. This is a fundamental change to what the game is and will change it from a work of art into yet another financial abuse engine.
Make decent cosmetics so people have something they actually want to buy in the ARX store and support the game with active development so people will want to spend money on them. I would take an optional subscription—as not everyone will be able to justify a continuous ongoing cost—that simply provided whatever the subscription cost is in ARX each month in exchange for active development over anything remotely like this "proposal". I say proposal because I sure as hell hope that's what it is.
TLDR: Nurture the dedicated fan base you have; don't abuse it.
...also if this is meant to eb some kind of late April Fools joke FDev? I'm not laughing.
This is just a kick in the face to those who have spent a lot of time, years in many cases, earning the things they have in the game. This is a fundamental change to what the game is and will change it from a work of art into yet another financial abuse engine.
Make decent cosmetics so people have something they actually want to buy in the ARX store and support the game with active development so people will want to spend money on them. I would take an optional subscription—as not everyone will be able to justify a continuous ongoing cost—that simply provided whatever the subscription cost is in ARX each month in exchange for active development over anything remotely like this "proposal". I say proposal because I sure as hell hope that's what it is.
TLDR: Nurture the dedicated fan base you have; don't abuse it.
...also if this is meant to eb some kind of late April Fools joke FDev? I'm not laughing.
How many players are there?
That many. Perhaps more, if you count the revolving door types.
'Player single-handedly funds F1 Manager 2025 by buying six-thousand years worth of reverse-block tokens in a different game. Says it's not pay-to-win, despite some people who were too lazy to inherit any wealth saying so, because his victims always have a chance.'
Sure it’s been said but it seems everyone is saying the same negative things. Putting my two cents in since learning of these changes and bouncing, not here to argue.
Firstly, they open the announcement talking about making engineering more accessible (noteworthy) and focused more on the build than the grind. We have no idea what the balances will be, but they state the intention right off and clear.
Secondly, pay to win would imply some merit or success is barred by payment… this is an open world RPG simulator where the only success is what you make of it. There is no “winning” or even “losing” for that matter but what goals you choose for yourself. The in-fighting and vows to block players or quit playing hurt nobody but yourself ultimately, as the most likely outcome of these changes is an increased retention and interest of new players, which has always been a good thing.
Thirdly, with a game like elite dangerous, as time passes new revenue models are inevitable. Cosmetics are universally a good thing, but as we have seen there is only so much that can be done. By introducing alternative revenue sources (that we have no indication will affect other players’ experience at all so far) will benefit FDEV and in turn benefit us by incentivizing and funding continued development of the game. Crying foul whenever a company tries to make money especially when it primarily is meant to benefit us the players, is ludicrous.
Finally, to touch base again with what I've said in the beginning, they open the announcement by claiming changes to engineering are meant to make it more accessible, fair, and focused on ship building rather than grinding essentially. This is something myself and literally every player i know has been asking for years to see, since engineering was essentially introduced. That cant guarantee it will be done perfectly this time, but it shows clear intent to make changes in the exact direction we players have been asking for. This is also a sentiment repeated later when discussing the anti-xeno prebuilt ships making it easier for new and returning players to participate, this is something ive also seen asked for by a number of players. Nothing in their announcements have eluded to the boogey-man of p2w other than the squabbling in the forums, and it is entirely clear they mean it as a way to improve revenue while offering a faster/easier track for “new and returning” players. The speculation about the python mk 2 being pvp killer is equally silly, we all should know in the years this game has been out that pvp not only almost entirely player driven and un-sanctioned (the game actively discourages it and offers nearly 0 incentive in 90% of cases) but its also extremely nuanced for anyone actively engaged in the pvp scene. The FDL being “the best” is entirely subjective, the cutter can survive it. A sidewinder can beat it. Even with the current state of engineering and its balance issues, it is still primarily up to the pilot who wins, right now the only bar for entry is the grind to engineer a ship, which for a new player is a very very daunting task that this update repeatedly promises to address, and only ONE aspect of this announcement suggests a way for a new player to “pay into” pvp. Everything else ive seen said about “pay to win” “pay to progress” etc is all entirely speculative of a single announcement.
For those of you being level headed, thank you, but to the majority of you forum users
Kindly sod off.
You and your attitude is precisely why I’ve had a number of friends stop playing. You are ignorantly against any change while simultaneously incessantly complaining about flaws you refuse to accept might require balances and changes to address. Bickering for the sake of it.
Everything they have announced sounds like positive change so far and you are too rotten to realize it. Doesn’t mean it will all be done well or correctly, but the sentiment is just and the proposed changes are sound aside from your asinine and unfounded fear of paying for something in game.
Firstly, they open the announcement talking about making engineering more accessible (noteworthy) and focused more on the build than the grind. We have no idea what the balances will be, but they state the intention right off and clear.
Secondly, pay to win would imply some merit or success is barred by payment… this is an open world RPG simulator where the only success is what you make of it. There is no “winning” or even “losing” for that matter but what goals you choose for yourself. The in-fighting and vows to block players or quit playing hurt nobody but yourself ultimately, as the most likely outcome of these changes is an increased retention and interest of new players, which has always been a good thing.
Thirdly, with a game like elite dangerous, as time passes new revenue models are inevitable. Cosmetics are universally a good thing, but as we have seen there is only so much that can be done. By introducing alternative revenue sources (that we have no indication will affect other players’ experience at all so far) will benefit FDEV and in turn benefit us by incentivizing and funding continued development of the game. Crying foul whenever a company tries to make money especially when it primarily is meant to benefit us the players, is ludicrous.
Finally, to touch base again with what I've said in the beginning, they open the announcement by claiming changes to engineering are meant to make it more accessible, fair, and focused on ship building rather than grinding essentially. This is something myself and literally every player i know has been asking for years to see, since engineering was essentially introduced. That cant guarantee it will be done perfectly this time, but it shows clear intent to make changes in the exact direction we players have been asking for. This is also a sentiment repeated later when discussing the anti-xeno prebuilt ships making it easier for new and returning players to participate, this is something ive also seen asked for by a number of players. Nothing in their announcements have eluded to the boogey-man of p2w other than the squabbling in the forums, and it is entirely clear they mean it as a way to improve revenue while offering a faster/easier track for “new and returning” players. The speculation about the python mk 2 being pvp killer is equally silly, we all should know in the years this game has been out that pvp not only almost entirely player driven and un-sanctioned (the game actively discourages it and offers nearly 0 incentive in 90% of cases) but its also extremely nuanced for anyone actively engaged in the pvp scene. The FDL being “the best” is entirely subjective, the cutter can survive it. A sidewinder can beat it. Even with the current state of engineering and its balance issues, it is still primarily up to the pilot who wins, right now the only bar for entry is the grind to engineer a ship, which for a new player is a very very daunting task that this update repeatedly promises to address, and only ONE aspect of this announcement suggests a way for a new player to “pay into” pvp. Everything else ive seen said about “pay to win” “pay to progress” etc is all entirely speculative of a single announcement.
For those of you being level headed, thank you, but to the majority of you forum users
Kindly sod off.
You and your attitude is precisely why I’ve had a number of friends stop playing. You are ignorantly against any change while simultaneously incessantly complaining about flaws you refuse to accept might require balances and changes to address. Bickering for the sake of it.
Everything they have announced sounds like positive change so far and you are too rotten to realize it. Doesn’t mean it will all be done well or correctly, but the sentiment is just and the proposed changes are sound aside from your asinine and unfounded fear of paying for something in game.
Well, this is very nice. I am sure the remainder of this post will be very civilized and polite.
Cool.
Ya'll Remember the time before some of the people who play games felt the need to come out and justify expanding monetization unprompted?
Pepperidge farm remembers.
Pepperidge farm remembers.
They can't. Anything that doesnt include solo mode has people freaking out worse than this.
The changes to Engineering'll be important in figuring out what the Pre-built Ships' impact will be.
The Python Mk II "early access", if anything, seems like a test - "Star Citizen Lite", if you will.
But this'll create a "perverse incentive" for Frontier Developments, if just one of either is successful.
Because - if EA works for new ships to such a degree that you earn as much from a ship sale as you do from an Expansion, then it's a very easy decision for a business to start focusing on new ships instead of broader content.
And I'm not referring to that one game like Elite - even WoW has the above issue; with store-bought mounts.
The Python Mk II "early access", if anything, seems like a test - "Star Citizen Lite", if you will.
But this'll create a "perverse incentive" for Frontier Developments, if just one of either is successful.
Because - if EA works for new ships to such a degree that you earn as much from a ship sale as you do from an Expansion, then it's a very easy decision for a business to start focusing on new ships instead of broader content.
And I'm not referring to that one game like Elite - even WoW has the above issue; with store-bought mounts.
So does anyone have a clue to what I might win if I buy me a new shiny Python Mk II before the rest of the common rabble?