Pay2Win made it to Elite

[CMDR IDRATHERBERIDIN]

FDev - I really hope you're reading this thread.

I've been playing Elite since shortly after launch. I've purchased two copies, on Xbox & PC. I've been patiently waiting for the Python Mk II, and was planning on purchasing ARX to fit a ship kit and paint job. I've purchased a fair amount of ARX over the years too, to give my ships a unique look. I really love this game. It scratches an itch others don't. Now I'm not sure I want to continue playing....

Tinkering with ships for PVP combat & piracy is what's kept me a long time player. It's a grind, getting the credits, collecting materials, and waiting for powerplay modules to unlock, and ship builds can be a bit of trial and error.... There is a fair amount of research and thought that goes into a ship build. But the end result is satisfying, and when I go up against another player - at least a PVP player - I know he at minimum did the work to research and build a viable ship. Do you really want to simplify the ship building process to a credit card transaction?

I've had other players tell me I ought to check out Star Citizen. I haven't, because I don't feel like I can get behind their business model. Granted, S.C. has some obscenely priced ships, but pay to win - regardless of the cost - is so off putting that I don't want to play those games. I certainly don't speak for the community at large, but on numerous occasions I've heard others positively speak about that fact that the game's microtransactions are cosmetic only - they have no effect on gameplay. Apparently, that won't be true going forward...

I can look at your stock price (you're actually trending in the right direction over the past month, or so) and infer that you need to raise cash, but this is off-putting. I'd prefer a straight message to the community along the lines of, "We want to keep the game alive, but need money to do it. If you can buy ARX for the cosmetics, it would be appreciated."

I'm happy to buy ARX for cosmetics.... Very, very disappointed to see ARX for early access and pre-built ships.

Thank you for your consideration of one CMDR's opinion...

 

[Munter]

After hearing the news on Burr Pit I came here to hope that what I was hearing wasn't true. Sadly no. Pay to win is a thing.
I had hoped something new would tempt me back however this news has ensured my cmdr demise.
I guess that's it for me then.

 

[robbyp]

Selling a pre built ship for a few quid vs the Star Citizen scam and their prices is not comparable and a ludicrous comparison.

Especially since you don't even need to pay, just play the game and you get ARX anyway to buy those ships, or just collect the materials and do the gameplay. They are just providing a method to allow time poor people to short circuit it.

And its not pay to win.

I see the news has brought out the usual suspects (including me). All we need is Old Duck to chip in.... ;-)

 

[Rory12]

Newcomers, even in powerful ships, will be struggling against experienced CMDRs. The learning curve of ED is steep; somebody who's got no experience with this game will not dominate -- unless the Python 2 has twice the shields of a cutter with prismatic shields, is equally fast, as manoeuvrable as a Vulture, and has more firepower than a pair of corvettes...

It's a wee bit too early to begin a swan song.

In games like Wart hunder, such people buy premium equipment and consumables to destroy newcomers.

Such people are looking for P2W games and they will come to ED. They will wander around wherever there is activity. And an anti-targoid ship without shields will do nothing to a premium corvette.

This is just one of the problems with P2W.

 

[Viajero]

From what I have read, the only mention of ARX is for early access to the Python MK2

Starting in May 2024, you will notice a change in how we approach the gamestore – which will also include ARX pricing adjustments for some of our cosmetic items, alongside new product types which are detailed below:

SHIP VARIANTS​

...

PRE-BUILT SHIPS​

...

COSMETIC ITEMS​

 

[alexzk]

And its not pay to win.

It is. Because they do not have good solution of the re-buys.
They cannot allow to wipe ARX item, and if they don't. this means it must have zero cost. And this is "a win" when somebody can keep re-spawn as crazy just for fun for free when I will have to cancel mission because I'm out of credits for re-buys.

 

[nanothargon]

Pre-Alpha backer here. I have backer insurance, so I paid to win... uh... 11 years ago I'll continue doing so. I laugh at people who gank my T-10. Reactive Surface Composite? Sure, I'll take two, to go, and throw a couple of Cutters in there, it's a Wednesday. Rebuys are pocket change. Anyone who thinks for-pay ship access is a new thing can kiss my shiny Cobra Mk IV.

As an OG BBC Micro military laser slinging badass, this is my game, and I'd prefer it to survive. I'm up for any reasonably sane monetisation strategy up to and including subscription. I've bought quite a bit of Arx just to support the game and had zero buyers remorse.

Games cost money to maintain and host. This is a good plan.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

It is. Because they do not have good solution of the re-buys.
They cannot allow to wipe ARX item, and if they don't. this means it must have zero cost. And this is "a win" when somebody can keep re-spawn as crazy just for fun for free when I will have to cancel mission because I'm out of credits for re-buys.

We haven't been given the details about what happens to these pre-builts when they get destroyed. Just because they paid for it with Arx doesn't necessarily mean that it won't have a rebuy cost. This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about earlier when I said that we need more details.

 

[alexzk]

Games cost money to maintain and host. This is a good plan.

Yes, and that's why I buy ARX couple times per year, each transaction costs 2x more than I paid for the game's copy.
I'm sure many people do the same.

 

[William J Smith]

Pay 2 win
Well if it keeps the servers going (and Fdev) I guess its a good thing, its a bit disheartening to old timers like myself, but then I've spent most of the week so far mining*
But have you thought of the really positive thing to the pay2 win thing, that being the number of people who'll buy the uber-ship for ARX and have no idea howto fly
Ohhh the salt....." My tricked out fed corvette I bought for 100 000 ARX just got taken out by some scruffy badly painted gunship"

Bill
<<<owns a scruffy badly painted gunship

*Mining: boots on the console twanging a guitar while drinking beer

 

[alexzk]

ust because they paid for it with Arx doesn't necessarily mean that it won't have a rebuy cost.

What if you don't have money for re-buy ? "Normal" ships will disappear. Can you take another copy from the story then again ?
There is 1 solution though - remove re-buys completely for everybody. Not sure If I like it either.

 

[Rory12]

I'd prefer a straight message to the community along the lines of, "We want to keep the game alive, but need money to do it. If you can buy ARX for the cosmetics, it would be appreciated."

When I opened a topic with such a proposal, it was quickly closed.

I think FD's answer is obvious...

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

What if you don't have money for re-buy ? "Normal" ships will disappear. Can you take another copy from the story then again ?
There is 1 solution though - remove re-buys completely for everybody. Not sure If I like it either.

Isn't it already the case that CMDRs can get a loan to cover the cost of a rebuy?

 

[alexzk]

Isn't it already the case that CMDRs can get a loan to cover the cost of a rebuy?

There is no loans for high ranks like Elite.
And even before, it has limited uses.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

At 400 Arx max per week, 41 weeks to save up for the Python MKII. If you get the max arx each week. Or just plunk down your credit card and buy away... sounds like pay to win potentially to me. We still need to see the exact details.

If the Python MkII or ship kit(s) have engineered modules or are on rank locked ships. That changes everything. It takes alot of time to unlock, gather mats and engineer a ship. If Fdev pay2win's a meta FDL or a like ship for $2.99 or $4.99 (just a guess) and it would take a LEP player 50-100 (also a guess) hours to get the same ship, setup the same way and engineered, then yes Houston we have a problem. I for one am hoping FDev stops at offering a non ranked locked ship with A rated only modules with zero engineering. And that Fdev gives it a fair market value rebuy. If the rebuy is zero credits... all ship kits will be used to pvp/gank excessively as it will literally cost nothing to do, except for the small initial up front cost.

Fdev is betting that all these changes will 1) Motivate the current playerbase to buy Arx 2) Attract new players to the game and have them buy Arx . I think FDev needs to strongly consider that making ED pay 2 win after years of DB saying that won't happen will have the opposite affect. Too many current players could call it quits with full Pay 2 Win or Pay 2 Skip the unlocks, rank grinds, and mat gathering... so it really depends on what is being offered and for how much $$$.

 

[Rory12]

I for one am hoping FDev stops at offering a non ranked locked ship with A rated only modules with zero engineering.

This is also bad. Earning rankings with superpowers is an important part of the training and gameplay. For example, I traveled through the bubble and scanned giant ships, learned how to make ships for military conflicts, etc.

 

[alexzk]

On the 2nd thought it can be AX farming loop. You kill new Titan 2 times per month, get ARX for it and buy pre-made ship because you had no time to gather mats during that time.
I'm still worried about re-buys :/

 

[Rochester]

Re-buy that’s a good point.

Legally people could ask for their money back. Or technically FD has to give people a free rebuy… bet there is a loop-hole in the small print saying buyer beware, if you get ganked you loose your pre-built ship.

 

[OutofSpace]

I am happy with what ever Frontier do to keep this greatest of all time game alive, which is a win for me.
I see it as others are paying to keep the game alive, in other words they are paying for me to win.

 

[GroG79]

Re-buy that’s a good point.

Legally people could ask for their money back. Or technically FD has to give people a free rebuy… bet there is a loop-hole in the small print saying buyer beware, if you get ganked you loose your pre-built ship.

Also.. Arx can be refunded. Arx purchases can not. Unless there is a quality issue