Pay2Win made it to Elite

[Brimstone]

the only reason i logged on was for the new type of hyperdrive, where you can boost in supercruise.

I was so in excited, and honestly, its a lot of fun to play with, just pulsing it.

NOW Frontier got their ship shops coming out... I dont like this one bit. It doesnt affect me at all as i have like, 4 billion in worth anyway, but now the arx store is gonna give ships? naw. You promised it was only cosmetics. You are now liars and deceitful.

 

[Brrokk]

Pay2Win is only a thing if it directly effects your abilities in PvP or against other players. As PvP in Elite is organised via discord/forums etc there's no impact. The game has no proper PvP other than ganking, which most of the time results in a combat log and pushes more into private group or solo. No one really cares if you level up and gain stuff quicker in one player mode... I don't care if some commander I never see buy 10 ships with money, I do care he's funding Elite's future. We don't even have PvP mission board, leaderboard or kill stats to show there is active PvP.

I'm on both sides. I don't like the idea of special zero-rebuy ships; the rebuy has always seemed to me a fundamental game mechanic and I don't like change. But I think losing minds over the fact that griefing new players might get more difficult is an ignoble spectacle.

It's a change I'm not impressed by, but I think the only reason to really oppose it is a nasty one.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

I really cant see how this is different than my Mercenary Starter Pack I got when I joined BETA in 2014. I got a bigger ship for buying in early.

I may be too old to understand this, but are people mad because other people can buy a prefitted ship for real money? Does it really matter to people how others came about their assets?

A Python shooting at me, bought for real money, is still just a python shooting at me.
If the guy flying it does not know how to fly it, then maybe I get to kill it.

 

[Brimstone]

The Preorder for Odyssey gave you the Cobra mk4. It sucks.

No matter how hard the purple haird community manager tries to tell you its a great ship, it isnt.

 

[Ozric]

The Preorder for Odyssey gave you the Cobra mk4. It sucks.

No it didn't. Buying Horizons within the first year of it's release did.

No matter how hard the purple haird community manager tries to tell you its a great ship, it isnt.

There is no community manager with Purple hair.

 

[Brimstone]

infact, dont trust any community manager, unless it's Ed Lewis.

Is, or was?

No it didn't. Buying Horizons within the first year of it's release did.


There is no community manager with Purple hair.

I'm having trouble learning the new forum buttons. anyway.

We did have a purple haired community manager.

Ed Lewis, as much as we abused him, was the best community manager we ever had. he was there from the start, along with all the starting devs.

Anyone remember the Snake man?

Ed would actually play with us, the community, anyone, just for the stream. and he actively tried to learn the game

i miss ed lewis

 

[CMDR Daiyus]

I have zero interest in the pre-made ships; the fun of the game for me is designing and building my own. I don't have an issue with newer players wanting a pre-set to get into a specific activity though. I've had a few friends start the game wanting to get into mining, but having to do other activities for hours before they can get a ship big enough was a concern for them, similarly for getting into AX gameplay. Yes, those experienced CMDR's amongst us can be mining in a Python in no time at all, or attack Titans in a Diamondback Scout, but that's not the new player experience. These unoptimised prebuilds allows them to jump in with both feet.

Zero rebuy on these also doesn't massively concern me. There's already players flying around in free give away ships, with free modules, etc. Once you're past a certain point it becomes largely irrelevant. The one caveat I will add to that position is that we shouldn't ever see large, or the expensive end of medium ships on sale for ARX. You don't need that end of the scale as a starter pack, and you should always have something to work towards yourself by actually playing the game. Prebuilds should be an introduction to an activity, not meta builds. They'll learn not to fly without a rebuy once they've started upgrading their build, or bought a bigger ship.

Early access Python Mk.II I'm iffy about, but at least everyone who has consistently supported the game (bought Odyssey) gets it in three months. I have no issue with charging Horizons only players for it, it's new content, and they haven't bought into the latest DLC. While I can see the slippery slope towards paid only ships, and I don't want to see that happen, I really don't see how that'd be any different to things like car packs in Forza. What's worse in games like that is the FOMO cars that are only offered through time-limited events, which we already have with CG modules.

 

[Ozric]

Stop spamming one line posts! Just wait before posting, this isn't a live message board!

We did have a purple haired community manager.

No we didn't. We never had.

The closest I can think of is a streamer called Psyche, but she is just a streamer though she has worked with Frontier on occasion. Most of our actual CM team over the years have had barely any hair

Ed Lewis, as much as we abused him, was the best community manager we ever had. he was there from the start, along with all the starting devs.

Anyone remember the Snake man?

Go to off topic if you want to discuss how much you miss Ed. Get back on topic here.

 

[Brimstone]

who do you guys think could honestly be the best community manager for this game?

Nobody rembers Sandro ?

Sandro sammarco

 

[Rat Catcher]

but it would be nice to sometimes think about how it will end.

It will end when people use that amazingly powerful ability of just saying "NO", it is a wonderful talent.

I may be too old to understand this, but are people mad because other people can buy a prefitted ship for real money?

Yes, that seems about right.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

Yes, that seems about right.

I need to understand how it would affect me if the Python shooting at me is bought for real money? What difference does it make?

 

[Jiro [RoA]]

no more rebuys for ships purchased with ARX?

Are you serious?

Where is now the risk and danger in the game?

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

the only reason i logged on was for the new type of hyperdrive, where you can boost in supercruise.

I was so in excited, and honestly, its a lot of fun to play with, just pulsing it.

NOW Frontier got their ship shops coming out... I dont like this one bit. It doesnt affect me at all as i have like, 4 billion in worth anyway, but now the arx store is gonna give ships? naw. You promised it was only cosmetics. You are now liars and deceitful.

Was it it an actual promise made? As I started playing in late 2022, I wasn't around for the alleged promise of "cosmetics only", which I believe was made in 2019 IIRC.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

No matter how hard the purple haird community manager tries to tell you its a great ship, it isnt.

I don't think anyone listens to community managers when it comes to what is and isn't a good ship, I think players are more likely to listen to each other. My impression is that most CMDRs think that the Cobra MkIV is an underwhelming hull, but even then I've heard of some finding a use for it. Outfitting and engineering counts for a lot.

 

[Rock Hunter]

I had never spent much time trying to define P2W - seems like that was wise as we've had nearly 30 pages (so far) of differing definitions.

FDev clearly needs additional income and I don't personally mind the selling of pre-built ships as a part of that.

Prior to their examples being published I was fairly confident that their build/engineering choices were never going to be as optimal as I would make them (for my own needs) through the usual engineering processes and this would appear to be the case. I do have an issue with supplying those builds with otherwise 'locked' modules as, again, personally I'm of the belief that most unlocking is at least intially an opportunity/showroom for various in-game activities and/or storylines i.e. unlocking Engineers showing career/activity paths and Guardians sites introducing a storyline whilst unlocking improvements for Thargoid fighting plus some bonus modules. With my abundance of credits I may as well just buy the ship with a module I want rather than bother to unlock access, that seems to be a shot in the foot for 'gameplay' - they may as well just unlock that module/item for everyone and allow it to be bought for credits in my view.

Engineering/materials changes, yes please. Personally I'd simply be happy with larger drops and receiving RAW materials as mission rewards as well as the usual stuff. I've always wondered why Extraction and Refinery stations/systems don't offer high levels of raw materials as a reward with lower numbers (or grades) of manufactured and vice versa at Industrial and High Tech with the various other types giving a suitably weighted (or well spread) number of others. That has always seemed another way to give additional meaning to the local economies. Personally, I'd rather not see it made pointlessly (IMO) easier to 'sweep' Mats up with tractor beams or just flying through stuff because I enjoy the fact that shipbuilding is a trade-off and my combat ships are going to be poorly designed for picking up mats unless I'm in an Anaconda/Corvette and can sacrifice some module space for an easier life. As a result I have some extremely focused ships that excel, far more than I do, at certain activities and some ships that are more generalised and have weaknesses that I need to be aware of.

The above is all just opinion and there's nearly 30 pages of those so far, I'm hoping we can keep this concise and considered enough that FDev can easily read and understand the opinions, concerns and suggestions because there's clearly some seismic changes approaching.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

David Braben wouldnt be OBE if it werent for WE

WE ?
i am not sure but wasnt his OBE for work done with the pi?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Isn't it up to the individual if they buy or not?

that is a fair point i guess.... but then if you take that to its logical conclusion you would be letting in some very predatory practices which would extend far beyond elite.

anything goes so long as it is legal and buyer beware? I cant support that and whilst i know it happens i will happily complain about companies who do it.

sometimes i think it is good to push back against certain practices even if they are legal just because it isnt good for the hobby you enjoy. (imo of course)

it is why i think it was good that FD got a lot of flak for their gambling mechanic in the engineering originally and FD were wise to backtrack.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

You can have that now, since some ships got a third multicrew set.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I don't think anyone listens to community managers when it comes to what is and isn't a good ship, I think players are more likely to listen to each other. My impression is that most CMDRs think that the Cobra MkIV is an underwhelming hull, but even then I've heard of some finding a use for it. Outfitting and engineering counts for a lot.

the cobra IV would be a superb stepping stone ship if the economy of the game wasnt such that you can skip it with 20 mins of gameplay and go to a different ship which can do any individual thing better.

but its possibly the best multirole ship which can land on a small pad (along side the viper IV maybe).

i like mine and use it now and then, and i would fully support releasing to to everyone else.

 

[Alaska Sædelære]

They should have done this much earlier, at the very least beginning with the introduction of fleet carriers. That these weren't sold for real money is a missed opportunity, and now we have places overcrowded with them. This was totally foreseeable but now you can't go back on what is already released, then the outcry would be justified. As things are, I see no issue as they are open about its release schedule and you can make an informed choice whether you want to spend money or credits. Pay to win? Come on, that's nonsense. You get the same ship, the premium is only for having it a little earlier. Gamers can be so irrational...