Please reconsider fleet carriers for solo players.

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I am a lone wolf as well and yet I think fleet carriers shouldn't be owned by individuals in a large number because it hurts the credibility of the Galaxy. Now I could apply the same argument and say it's selfish that you want to to take that credibility away from me.

how do you feel about npc squadrons which lone wolf players ( sorry @ CMDR QUANTIS TRAP but it is just a term ) could join. So it isnt a single CMDR having an empty fleet carrier on their own but one who has joined an npc squadron which would be controlled by the BGS. Other players of course could join said squadron too and you may even see them if in open, but those in PGs and solo would not.
the difference as i see it, and as why i would prefer it myself is because if BGS controlled rather than player controlled i know they would stick to (assuming they worked properly) sensible actions which fit within the context of the game, where as a player one may or may not.
i know some people in this thread want their own personal megaship..... but not all do, and i think there are potentially different arguments for the different ideas.

 

[Rubbernuke]

how do you feel about npc squadrons which lone wolf players ( sorry @ CMDR QUANTIS TRAP but it is just a term ) could join. So it isnt a single CMDR having an empty fleet carrier on their own but one who has joined an npc squadron which would be controlled by the BGS. Other players of course could join said squadron too and you may even see them if in open, but those in PGs and solo would not.
the difference as i see it, and as why i would prefer it myself is because if BGS controlled rather than player controlled i know they would stick to (assuming they worked properly) sensible actions which fit within the context of the game, where as a player one may or may not.
i know some people in this thread want their own personal megaship..... but not all do, and i think there are potentially different arguments for the different ideas.

" because if BGS controlled"

You do know the BGS kind of relies on human interactions, and that there is no usch thing as NPC factions doing anything other than reacting to player influence? So, you'd be reacting to influence levels and never moving from your systems- you'd be a puppet.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

" because if BGS controlled"

You do know the BGS kind of relies on human interactions, and that there is no usch thing as NPC factions doing anything other than reacting to player influence? So, you'd be reacting to influence levels and never moving from your systems- you'd be a puppet.

Really? I don't think so. I've spent hundreds of hours in the fringe, with zero daily traffic and the bgs states change all the time. At least they used to. I used to have a whole bunch bookmarked and used to wait for good active economic states to dive in and exploit the stacking until it was used up.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

" because if BGS controlled"

You do know the BGS kind of relies on human interactions, and that there is no usch thing as NPC factions doing anything other than reacting to player influence? So, you'd be reacting to influence levels and never moving from your systems- you'd be a puppet.

good point and i should have been clearer - i mentioned on another thread somewhere...... I think more can (/should) be done with the npc factions so they are more than just about expansions and stuff and each faction given proper flavour which would affect how they would use a megaship irrespective of what players do with them.

so the npc faction CODE for instance - clearly a pirate faction - so if you joined their faction the ship would do piratey things, irrespective of what players do

another faction may have a penchant for mining
another could be military, another trade and another exploration.

so as a player i would kind of know in advance what i was getting myself in for before joining and having access to the fleet carrier. i dunno.. just spit balling. nothing we say here will make any difference anyway i am sure FD know how they want it to be.

players could still do all the current BGS stuff with the factions as well, but the fleet carrier i would say would be independant of that and stick to the ideals of that faction. (perhaps BGS was the wrong word but it is still the BGS imo.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Really? I don't think so. I've spent hundreds of hours in the fringe, with zero daily traffic and the bgs states change all the time. At least they used to. I used to have a whole bunch bookmarked and used to wait for good active economic states to dive in and exploit the stacking until it was used up.

The BGS without players does nothing, unless something has drastically changed. I have a few fringe systems I use for testing and they sit there doing nothing until I work on them.

 

[Robert Maynard]

players could still do all the current BGS stuff with the factions as well, but the fleet carrier i would say would be independant of that and stick to the ideals of that faction. (perhaps BGS was the wrong word but it is still the BGS imo.

What of Squadrons with a Carrier that choose not to affiliate with a Faction?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

The BGS without players does nothing, unless something has drastically changed. I have a few fringe systems I use for testing and they sit there doing nothing until I work on them.

Yeah i wouldn't know for certain. The only differing attribute that could make a difference is population.. it does make sense that systems with a population the bgs would consider significant may move themselves. There are many systems with under 50k.. which might even be too high. The extreme stuff i noticed was in the 15k and under pop systems.

Its been a while and much has changed so no idea. I always thought it made sense that the bgs would change on npc behaviour though. Someone should watch that dav stott livestream from a few years ago.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

What of Squadrons with a Carrier that choose not to affiliate with a Faction?

you mean pure player squadrons? i would think they can do what they want as they are player controlled.. or are you saying you want npc squadrons which a player can control rather than the BGS (using BGS as a generic term).... then you are back to some players do not want lone wolves getting to command a megaship.

I was trying to suggest a way to keep the "solo player must never have a fleet carrier" types happy whilst still having fleet carrier gameplay which is relevent to those who do not want to join a player squadron, and giving each npc faction (at least) 1 fleet carrier i thought was a decent (or at least the most obvious) idea.

independent npc fleet carriers i am not against either mind you.

 

[sollisb]

I'm actually struggling to find any benefit to a Fleet Carrier if it's squadron only.

Let's say it is squadron only;

How many ships can one player dock on it?
Is Each squadron member expected to upkeep the carrier even if they don't use it?
Will members be ousted from the guild if they don't pay the upkeep?

What does the carrier bring to the squadron table?


As for solo player carriers I see huge benefits.

 

[Robert Maynard]

you mean pure player squadrons? i would think they can do what they want as they are player controlled.. or are you saying you want npc squadrons which a player can control rather than the BGS (using BGS as a generic term).... then you are back to some players do not want lone wolves getting to command a megaship.

I was trying to suggest a way to keep the "solo player must never have a fleet carrier" types happy whilst still having fleet carrier gameplay which is relevent to those who do not want to join a player squadron, and giving each npc faction (at least) 1 fleet carrier i thought was a decent (or at least the most obvious) idea.

independent npc fleet carriers i am not against either mind you.

Pure player Squadrons.

.... and I'm not particularly concerned whether those who seek to restrict access to Carriers to Squadrons that are deemed "worthy" of them are happy....

Given that Carriers are likely to operate through executive control, I doubt that NPC Factions will have them - as there'd be no-one "in charge" to decide where it was going to be deployed.

 

[babelfisch]

Even so, the genie is already out of the bottle with regard to one CMDR operating a large vessel with no requirement for crew.

So everyone could also own a Coriolis station because the genie is already out of the bottle?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Logically impossible. A squadron is simply a group of lone wolf commanders.

Ere what. If they are working together for a common cause, by definition they are not lone wolf commanders.

The closest to group content in the game is:

combat with the harder thargoid variants, for which i doubt you'll be able to fly your carrier into the uss to lend a hand (though that would be pretty epic if you could, especially if it triggered further thargoid reinforcements).

But your squadron would have its own mobile base closer to the action. Having different modules available for different purposes without the need to transfer them from a station. Seems perfectly fine for me.

bgs faction play, which is completely useless for a big ship unless it plays the game for you or provides a dumb presence buff to activity contributions, which would be funny.

We don't know what FDev have in store for this. I could see BGS and/or Powerplay reps on the Fleet Carrier giving squadron missions instead of personal missions from a station. You imagination is seriously lacking.

as a fleet carrier, which you have debunked via logic.

Perfectly fine as a squadron fleet carrier, just not a personal fleet carrier. I have not debunked anything, all I have done is use what is currently in game at the moment as a basis.

Willing to have an armchair brainstorming session with you though on what is even possible carriers are going to do if they are not going to be mobile stations.

Will there be new squadron necessary content added with them? If you're implying that i think you're being unrealistic

They are going to be a guild/squadron houses that can move to the place they want them to, probably upgradeable, something for the squadron to work towards and call their own, I very much doubt it will be a station. I will be very suprised if there are commodites for sale or anything like that.

 

[babelfisch]

how do you feel about npc squadrons which lone wolf players ( sorry @ CMDR QUANTIS TRAP but it is just a term ) could join. So it isnt a single CMDR having an empty fleet carrier on their own but one who has joined an npc squadron which would be controlled by the BGS. Other players of course could join said squadron too and you may even see them if in open, but those in PGs and solo would not.
the difference as i see it, and as why i would prefer it myself is because if BGS controlled rather than player controlled i know they would stick to (assuming they worked properly) sensible actions which fit within the context of the game, where as a player one may or may not.
i know some people in this thread want their own personal megaship..... but not all do, and i think there are potentially different arguments for the different ideas.

I posted something similar earlier.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So everyone could also own a Coriolis station because the genie is already out of the bottle?

Executive control at that level has, I think, been ruled out by DBOBE whereas executive control of large ships was mentioned as a likely development a long time ago.

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[babelfisch]

" because if BGS controlled"

You do know the BGS kind of relies on human interactions, and that there is no usch thing as NPC factions doing anything other than reacting to player influence? So, you'd be reacting to influence levels and never moving from your systems- you'd be a puppet.

NPC Squadrons could be tied to factions. If a faction is at war, the Fleet Carrier jumps close to the combat zones as mobile station. If a system of the faction is in famine, the Fleet Carrier jumps to the system and collects / distributes food. Etc.

 

[babelfisch]

Executive control at that level has, I think, been ruled out by DBOBE whereas executive control of large ships was mentioned as a likely development a long time ago.

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I believe he never said that executive control of large ships needs to be balanced in a way so that everyone has easy access to it. You probably missed it, but earlier in this thread I said that I am not completely against individual players owning a fleet carrier. It just needs to be very rare and difficult. If 300 players can maintain and operate a fleet carrier it should be 300 times harder for a single player. I think that's just fair.

 

[babelfisch]

What of Squadrons with a Carrier that choose not to affiliate with a Faction?

I believe he was talking about NPC Squadrons. They don't have much choice.

 

[Nadreck]

It's like you asking for Maternity leave.... despite not having a baby... or even being female in the first place.....

A spectacularly bad analogy, because SOLO PLAYERS HAVE FLEETS.

A more accurate analogy would be to decree that only married women can have babies, and the offspring of unmarried women should be officially designated "humanoid pets" to deny them access to maternity leave.

 

[babelfisch]

A spectacularly bad analogy, because SOLO PLAYERS HAVE FLEETS.

A more accurate analogy would be to decree that only married women can have babies, and the offspring of unmarried women should be officially designated "humanoid pets" to deny them access to maternity leave.

I am not into this Squadron stuff, but is there anything that stops a Solo player from creating his own Squadron?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I am not into this Squadron stuff, but is there anything that stops a Solo player from creating his own Squadron?

Every single Squadron starts with only one member.