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***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
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involved players are on the forum, or reddit, or read news letters...
Thank you Sandro and thank you for giving us all this opportunity, for a meaningful vote on the subject.
However: I would say that the lazy and greedy, will win the day on this one.
I think these answers are a bit confusing (I originally thought the answer I wanted to select was the opposite of what it was), and have the possibility of introducing bias due to being no vs. yes. May I suggest it should be worded instead:
Should transferring ships and modules to your location be instant or take time?
- The transfer should be instant
- The transfer should have a delay of 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the human bubble, edge to edge.
- The transfer should be instant
- The transfer should have a delay of 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the human bubble, edge to edge.
Personally, I'd hope any delayed transport is simply a realistic approximation of what the ship would really do it in? Simply a value between 5minutes and 100minutes for local to width of the galaxy just isn't worth while surely?
ie: The delay should be realistic so as to give flying your craft actual worth. Else we'll fall back into everyone flying their Asp/Anaconda everywhere and calling over the ship of choice. Putting an artitrary 5min wait in that will be annoying!
So is "Yes there should be a delay of 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the human bubble, edge to edge." actually suggesting those times? Or more realistic times as if a CMDR flew there in that ship?
ie: The delay should be realistic so as to give flying your craft actual worth. Else we'll fall back into everyone flying their Asp/Anaconda everywhere and calling over the ship of choice. Putting an artitrary 5min wait in that will be annoying!
So is "Yes there should be a delay of 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the human bubble, edge to edge." actually suggesting those times? Or more realistic times as if a CMDR flew there in that ship?
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Providing stats whilst a poll is in progress tends to skew the outcome. [if your "side" is winning, you don't tend to vote]
It's mostly done by websites/news outlets who are interested in "more clicks".
The problem is that instant transfer unbalances the game and leaves many of the functions that have previously been installed into the game by FD now defunct and pointless. Ship specific weakness es like jump range, power management, traffic reports, trading return trips that are less profitable etc. etc. all become pointless control measures that once were relevant in the game.
At the end of the day, everyone would like to see ship transfer, but at the cost of unbalancing the game to such an extent is it really worth it? Time transfer is not perfect but at least it is some sort of control measure.
Incidentally, why is it that you always go to complete extremes? 100 minutes for 300ly is completely asinine, where did those numbers even come from? If I transfer a ship from literally next door, simply to save myself having to buy a hauler to go to that ship because maybe I want to switch modules, or maybe I am trying to consolidate my fleet in one station, or whatever reason, it's going to take 5 minutes when the ship would be capable of the one way jump without?
Like, where the heck did 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the 300ly bubble come from? Where does Frontier get these numbers? Hell, if you want to add a delay and make it so some scrub NPC pilot has to imaginarily fly my imaginary ship from one station to another, just do something like (number of jumps)*20s, where number of jumps is the distance divided by the ship's max jump range. For the love of Christ don't just make arbitrarily bad decisions and then put it on a poll that is only going to be voted on by people who are vocally passionate about the issue already.
I mean maybe you made it instant or an aggressively bad, unfun, arbitrary thing in order to try to force the poll the direction you want, but I think maybe you've underestimated just how unfun and how ridiculous the delay-wanters are. It wouldn't be the first time Frontier has used bad understanding of its players as a heuristic to make bad decisions.
Like, where the heck did 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the 300ly bubble come from? Where does Frontier get these numbers? Hell, if you want to add a delay and make it so some scrub NPC pilot has to imaginarily fly my imaginary ship from one station to another, just do something like (number of jumps)*20s, where number of jumps is the distance divided by the ship's max jump range. For the love of Christ don't just make arbitrarily bad decisions and then put it on a poll that is only going to be voted on by people who are vocally passionate about the issue already.
I mean maybe you made it instant or an aggressively bad, unfun, arbitrary thing in order to try to force the poll the direction you want, but I think maybe you've underestimated just how unfun and how ridiculous the delay-wanters are. It wouldn't be the first time Frontier has used bad understanding of its players as a heuristic to make bad decisions.
I'd much rather instant transfer, don't see why "mah immershion!!" players should dictate how I play my game, but I could live with 100 minutes if that was to *anywhere* in the galaxy. Please please don't extend the time to ridiculous levels where you have to log off for a week just to use your ship. There is no point having transfer at all in that case, it would be quicker to taxi over and get it myself.
Or how about a switch in preferences: Ship Transfer: Instant / Delayed ?
Or how about a switch in preferences: Ship Transfer: Instant / Delayed ?
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What about the "immersion" crowd who see Instants as whiners? Basically in this debate everyone has whined equally loud, so FD have put it to the vote. If the Brexit vote is anything to go by, whichever side loses will just step up the level of whining....
You mean, like on Diablo when you're in town, click on another player's banner and magically appear next to him?
that won´t be a problem for people who choose waiting, you see ;-) I´d rather wait for one year. I´ve played joyfully since dec 3301 already
Excuse me if the suggestion has been made elsewhere, or if the mechanics simply don't allow it, but I think the angst over this issue could be diffused by reversing the direction of ship transfer.
Instead of a "pull" make it a "push."
Fly to X station where your ship is parked, and choose destination station Y for the transfer. Perhaps even making this possible remotely.
Say, I'm in Sol, and I want to transfer my Hauler to Jaques Station. Hauler could even be parked in Achenar, you just need to select it, choose the destination station, and pay the transport fee.
Then it doesn't really matter if the transfer is instantaneous. You still have to fly to get your ship, so the "delay" is however long it takes you to get to station Y.
Does that suggestion make sense? Is there any problem with implementing this type of design as opposed to recalling a remote ship to your current location?
Instead of a "pull" make it a "push."
Fly to X station where your ship is parked, and choose destination station Y for the transfer. Perhaps even making this possible remotely.
Say, I'm in Sol, and I want to transfer my Hauler to Jaques Station. Hauler could even be parked in Achenar, you just need to select it, choose the destination station, and pay the transport fee.
Then it doesn't really matter if the transfer is instantaneous. You still have to fly to get your ship, so the "delay" is however long it takes you to get to station Y.
Does that suggestion make sense? Is there any problem with implementing this type of design as opposed to recalling a remote ship to your current location?
I'm personally pro-timer, as instant transfer would feel like a "print" of the ship as opposed to the ship itself.
Then again we have instant cargo loading and respawns so am not 100% sure why things have kicked off like they have!
Also we now live in a world of more digital vs physical content ownership, so can see that there's possibly a different view that younger players may have to the whole topic vs the old farts (like myself, who still buys CDs).
Definitely been chewing over this one. I was pretty much anti-instant but TBH I have decided that ultimately I don't really mind. I can always make an instant transfer and not touch the thing for x length of time and retcon hiring a pilot to transfer the ship.
So... I don't think that I'll be voting.
Helpful, I know.
[wacky]
Then again we have instant cargo loading and respawns so am not 100% sure why things have kicked off like they have!
Also we now live in a world of more digital vs physical content ownership, so can see that there's possibly a different view that younger players may have to the whole topic vs the old farts (like myself, who still buys CDs).
Definitely been chewing over this one. I was pretty much anti-instant but TBH I have decided that ultimately I don't really mind. I can always make an instant transfer and not touch the thing for x length of time and retcon hiring a pilot to transfer the ship.
So... I don't think that I'll be voting.
Helpful, I know.
[wacky]
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Deleted member 38366
D
Options in that Vote were quite limited to say the least, but at least it's something; good idea.
IMHO the Delay parameter should have been voted upon as well.
This is what would have yielded the most critical parameter in the whole equation : what is the best (median) Delay that most Players would envision as a good compromise between Simulation/Realism and Accessibility/Gameplay benefit.
Me thinks that's exactly what's needed.
Plus, who's to say that the inherent Jumprange of an ordered Ship can't fit into it?
Order an AspX with 40+ LY jumprange and get it on-location faster than a range-crippled E-Grade Viper Mk.III. Just by using a very simplified multiplicator (Ship Jumprange) that speeds things up from a baseline Delay.
Thus, full Delay only applies to Ships that would either take an eternity manually getting or maybe couldn't even make the trip - all others still benefit from applied improvements to whatever the FSD Range of their ordered Ship is.
PS.
Tiny recap of my Opinion about Delay vs. Instant.
Refuelling = Instant (okay, since it's an everyday, mundane and extremely-often repeated task)
Repair = Instant (actually I wouldn't mind waiting a few Minutes to see a 1% Hull total-wrecked 900M Cr Corvette is being rapidly patched up... Instant here seems like magic; an AFMU in comparison works very realistic here)
AFMU = Delay (just right, like it exactly how it is... a Field Repair somewhere in the black which takes its good time and eats up the limited resources)
Outfitting Internals = Instant (since there's nothing to see and we can assume the Modular Design allows it... okay with that)
Cargo loading/offloading = Instant (everyday mundane "bulk" Task like Refuelling, rapidly Modular and fully automated... okay with that)
Outfitting Weapons/Utility = Delay (just the small Weapon/Utility Animation... but it makes sense and feels right, as we see those things)
Special Case : Cargo Transfer to a Smuggler/Trade Beacon Type-9 = Magically Instant (hehe, now that's magic and it never felt good seeing a T9 "beaming" over unlimited Cargo - with a follow-up Cargo-Scan revealing the "scam")
So even if a Delay isn't much, it can add alot of realism to any Detail it applies to (= where clearly aiding realism) - without killing off Gameplay.
For me, Instant Ship Transfer would be = Magically Instant (= undesirable, especially since that's not an everyday task and the old "manual way" takes well-known timeframe to do)
IMHO the Delay parameter should have been voted upon as well.
This is what would have yielded the most critical parameter in the whole equation : what is the best (median) Delay that most Players would envision as a good compromise between Simulation/Realism and Accessibility/Gameplay benefit.
Me thinks that's exactly what's needed.
Plus, who's to say that the inherent Jumprange of an ordered Ship can't fit into it?
Order an AspX with 40+ LY jumprange and get it on-location faster than a range-crippled E-Grade Viper Mk.III. Just by using a very simplified multiplicator (Ship Jumprange) that speeds things up from a baseline Delay.
Thus, full Delay only applies to Ships that would either take an eternity manually getting or maybe couldn't even make the trip - all others still benefit from applied improvements to whatever the FSD Range of their ordered Ship is.
PS.
Tiny recap of my Opinion about Delay vs. Instant.
Refuelling = Instant (okay, since it's an everyday, mundane and extremely-often repeated task)
Repair = Instant (actually I wouldn't mind waiting a few Minutes to see a 1% Hull total-wrecked 900M Cr Corvette is being rapidly patched up... Instant here seems like magic; an AFMU in comparison works very realistic here)
AFMU = Delay (just right, like it exactly how it is... a Field Repair somewhere in the black which takes its good time and eats up the limited resources)
Outfitting Internals = Instant (since there's nothing to see and we can assume the Modular Design allows it... okay with that)
Cargo loading/offloading = Instant (everyday mundane "bulk" Task like Refuelling, rapidly Modular and fully automated... okay with that)
Outfitting Weapons/Utility = Delay (just the small Weapon/Utility Animation... but it makes sense and feels right, as we see those things)
Special Case : Cargo Transfer to a Smuggler/Trade Beacon Type-9 = Magically Instant (hehe, now that's magic and it never felt good seeing a T9 "beaming" over unlimited Cargo - with a follow-up Cargo-Scan revealing the "scam")
So even if a Delay isn't much, it can add alot of realism to any Detail it applies to (= where clearly aiding realism) - without killing off Gameplay.
For me, Instant Ship Transfer would be = Magically Instant (= undesirable, especially since that's not an everyday task and the old "manual way" takes well-known timeframe to do)
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Also, I know it's been mentioned before... but will this ship transfer only work within the main bubble, whether instant or not? The main concern here is if people could easily get whole fleets of ships out to Jacques station.
Edit: I see Sandro already covered this, but spelled it 'Jaques', hence my search didn't find it! Damn me not remembering the canonical spelling for this instance.
Edit: I see Sandro already covered this, but spelled it 'Jaques', hence my search didn't find it! Damn me not remembering the canonical spelling for this instance.
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"Frontier doesn't listen to people" (damned if you don't)
"Ok here's a vote"
"Vocal minority!" (Damned if you do)
Agreed.
100" to transfer a T9, FGS, FDS, FDL ect ect on 300Ly... it's totally fine !
From what I have read ED has in the future "transportation missions". You get paid for transporting passengers.
Along with that new mission... wouldn't it make sense to add for "instant" or "somewhat delayed" player pay-for-passage between stations?
So, for example, I fly my explorer ship all the way to Jaques. I want to get in on a mission back in the bubble.... so I PAY for near instant transportation to a station where i have a ship or I can buy one. When I want to go back to Jacques I PAY for passage or I fly there again.
That would dovetail nicely with new high-ticket transportation missions to-from jaques that players can run.
It might STILL be a little more "unreal" with insta-travel, but it leaves the character with two facets of REALITY:
1. If you don't want to have to fly yourself get a passenger ticket and PAY for it. You are delivered in a reasonable time.
2. If you do use public transport to get to a new location you have to purchase a new ride when you get there. OR call Enterprise, Hertz, etc.
... and it avoids insta-transport of SHIPS.
Players that WANT to have a high-jump range luxury ship will FEEL like they are transporting ED players.
Players that WANT to get back to the bubble without having to sacrifice 9 days of play-time can FEEL like other ED players are getting paid for missions to transport them.
Along with that new mission... wouldn't it make sense to add for "instant" or "somewhat delayed" player pay-for-passage between stations?
So, for example, I fly my explorer ship all the way to Jaques. I want to get in on a mission back in the bubble.... so I PAY for near instant transportation to a station where i have a ship or I can buy one. When I want to go back to Jacques I PAY for passage or I fly there again.
That would dovetail nicely with new high-ticket transportation missions to-from jaques that players can run.
It might STILL be a little more "unreal" with insta-travel, but it leaves the character with two facets of REALITY:
1. If you don't want to have to fly yourself get a passenger ticket and PAY for it. You are delivered in a reasonable time.
2. If you do use public transport to get to a new location you have to purchase a new ride when you get there. OR call Enterprise, Hertz, etc.
... and it avoids insta-transport of SHIPS.
Players that WANT to have a high-jump range luxury ship will FEEL like they are transporting ED players.
Players that WANT to get back to the bubble without having to sacrifice 9 days of play-time can FEEL like other ED players are getting paid for missions to transport them.
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As Sandro mentioned above if delay is implemented, most likely you will be able to get ships transfered to Jacques, within huge amount of time of course.
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