Poll - UGC / Custom Content

[Mr Deuce]

Hi all.

UGC is a very frequently discussed topic on here, and as yet it's not confirmed. In fact, it's about the only feature that we might expect in this game that has yet to be confirmed or otherwise.

For thos that don't know what UGC stands for, it's 'U'ser 'G'enerated 'C'ontent. In other words, the ability to import custom scenery (and perhaps rides too) and use them in your parks, and share them with others. It is UGC that helped keep RCT3 fresh and popular for so long.

The other day Brett C had this to say:

...We know it's an important request - it's probably one of the most discussed items here on the forums. Custom Object Imports from 3rd party sources is a subject best left for another day right now. Please note that I am not confirming or denying the existence of such support. [happy]

So it sounds like someone at Frontier has yet to make their mind up about this... which is fine, and fair enough.

But it would be really great if as many people as possible could give their views in this thread, and crucially vote on the poll linked to below. Whatever decision frontier eventually make, I'm sure the views of the people playing their game will be useful to them.

You can vote here: http://directpoll.com/v?XDVhEtWTuhn7V7rJFcPlIkvVnM8iMoE

And you can view results here: http://directpoll.com/r?XDbzPBd3ixYqg8y0ZMMafU1OCZSukzN2S1h7IwPyW

 

[coencoensmeets]

My first question is "Where does UGC stands for?"

 

[Mr Deuce]

My first question is "Where does UGC stands for?"

I'll edit the post lol. I was just thinking some people might not know.

User Generated Content. In other words, the ability to design our own scenery blocks and items in third party modelling programs, and then share them so other people can use them. You don't need to be able to make your own models to benefit from this, you can just download and use sets made by other people.

This is how people managed so much in RCT3, they used custom scenery.

Technically UGC covers custom scenery, custom rides/stalls, anything really.

 

[coencoensmeets]

I'll edit the post lol. I was just thinking some people might not know.

User Generated Content. In other words, the ability to design our own scenery blocks and items in third party modelling programs, and then share them so other people can use them. You don't need to be able to make your own models to benefit from this, you can just download and use sets made by other people.

This is how people managed so much in RCT3, they used custom scenery.

Technically UGC covers custom scenery, custom rides/stalls, anything really.

I though it was Custom Content. And it was right. [squeeeeee] Thanks for the quick answer.

 

[Coasterbuff]

Voted! [up]

 

[Angelis1]

They already know the importance of CSO, CTR and CFR, no need a poll for that.

... But if this can help them to make a better system ... Voted ! [yesnod][up]

 

[Mr Deuce]

They already know the importance of CSO, CTR and CFR, no need a poll for that.

... But if this can help them to make a better system ... Voted ! [yesnod][up]

They know the importance, but I'm guessing they have a decision to make as to whether they do what's best for us and make UGC possible, or what is best for their bank balance and leave it closed, allowing them to potentially generate revenue selling their own DLC later on. And actually, as I run a business myself, I have to say that either is a valid choice. Let's face facts, Frontier have to make money. And with ED, they made quite a lot (according to their financial statements to their investors). And as a result, they have a large team of very talented people which is why their game is wiping the floor with the fetid carcass of RCTW. So making money, and running a business to maximize profit is a good thing for their customers as well as for themselves. But of course, UGC is also a good thing for their customers.

The big question that I hope the poll will help to answer, is what is best overall. There are many factors here. The inclusion of UGC could help drive sales and generate more revenue than DLC could later on. Alternatively Frontier may calculate that restricting scenery to only official DLC woul maintain the quality, and the revenue generated could simply be used to make more DLC to keep the game alive for as long as possible.

The reality is without seeing all the facts and figures we can't say what is best or most sensible for Frontier to do. We can only comment on what we want personally. That is why a poll is useful, it ensures that whatever decision they do make, is at least based on the most accurate facts and figures. Because the one thing they can only guess at right now, is how much UGC will affect people's decision to buy the game. That's a pretty important part of the puzzle.

 

[Coasterbuff]

I think the main concern of allowing UGC for the game, like it was for RCT3 is the hosting of it. All UGC for RCT3 was scattered all over the place on many different websites and file hosting sites like Rapidshare and I think Frontier would rather it be done on their own site. It has been mentioned that Frontier would rather distribute the game through their own server, rather than Steam (which is debatable at the moment) and rather than have UGC done through a Steam Workshop, would prefer it be set up by a workshop of their own. That's the way I am reading this, but correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe if they do allow UGC I don't think it will be at launch, but could be implemented at a later stage. Like I mentioned about UGC and RCT3, I would prefer it to be uploaded to one site, where everyone knows where it is, rather than having to search all over the place and then find it has been deleted, or the server no longer exists and some files that are corrupt which crashes your game because it has bugs in it.

But whoever deals with it or how it is handled, it needs to be able to be installed by a self executing installer to the correct file folders in the game in order for the UGC to run properly.

Originally Posted by Wobbly
I'd prefer Steam, I know where I am with it - It works. I'd also like the idea of stream workshop too, a central secure place for it all, rather than things posted forums for people to upload and mod themselves.



I wouldn't exactly say Steam workshop is secure for file storage. Who's to say in a decades time, Steam decides to discontinue the SteamCommunity site - taking along most of the user generated content with it? That would be a bad thing to see happen.

Theoretically speaking.... What if we created something inside the game client to pull in, sync, upload user generated content?​

- Brett C / bc
​

 

[Angelis1]

They know the importance, but I'm guessing they have a decision to make as to whether they do what's best for us and make UGC possible, or what is best for their bank balance and leave it closed, allowing them to potentially generate revenue selling their own DLC later on. And actually, as I run a business myself, I have to say that either is a valid choice. Let's face facts, Frontier have to make money. And with ED, they made quite a lot (according to their financial statements to their investors). And as a result, they have a large team of very talented people which is why their game is wiping the floor with the fetid carcass of RCTW. So making money, and running a business to maximize profit is a good thing for their customers as well as for themselves. But of course, UGC is also a good thing for their customers.

The big question that I hope the poll will help to answer, is what is best overall. There are many factors here. The inclusion of UGC could help drive sales and generate more revenue than DLC could later on. Alternatively Frontier may calculate that restricting scenery to only official DLC woul maintain the quality, and the revenue generated could simply be used to make more DLC to keep the game alive for as long as possible.

The reality is without seeing all the facts and figures we can't say what is best or most sensible for Frontier to do. We can only comment on what we want personally. That is why a poll is useful, it ensures that whatever decision they do make, is at least based on the most accurate facts and figures. Because the one thing they can only guess at right now, is how much UGC will affect people's decision to buy the game. That's a pretty important part of the puzzle.

Then the question is not "How important is UGC in Planet Coaster?", because we all know that the answer is yes, at different levels but still yes (for the players because they can make exactly what they want without limits, and also for Frontier, because this extend the lifespan of the game, and therefore the long-term sales numbers). Not to mention the fact that propose the integration of "modding" does not prevent to sell DLC / Expansions.

Anyway, we already have discussed this issue a lot...

The real question are the next ones : How will works this "theorically speaking custom content manager" that Brett C has talked about ?
Do they want to use the "EA/Ubisoft Cash Machine" strategy with selling DLC for extra greenbacks although it must taint the Frontier brand image for that ?
If yes, will it be possible to download the official content (DLC) and the free content (UGC) on the same platform ? Or the "cashshop" is different from the "content manager" ?
And questions like that ...

But "How important is UGC" is kind of obvious, and it's been a while since, in our discussions, we exceeded this question. Now we are in phase : "Show us how you plan to do"

I think the main concern of allowing UGC for the game, like it was for RCT3 is the hosting of it.

Absolutly !!!

All UGC for RCT3 was scattered all over the place on many different websites and file hosting sites like Rapidshare and I think Frontier would rather it be done on their own site. It has been mentioned that Frontier would rather distribute the game through their own server, rather than Steam (which is debatable at the moment) and rather than have UGC done through a Steam Workshop, would prefer it be set up by a workshop of their own. That's the way I am reading this, but correct me if I am wrong.

again : SteamStore =/= SteamWorkshop.

They can publish the game on Steam and their own website AND using their own "content management platform" !!!

Please use "SteamStore" or "SteamWorkshop" and not just the word "Steam", for a question of understanding, please. [happy]

 

[Mr Deuce]

I think the main concern of allowing UGC for the game, like it was for RCT3 is the hosting of it. All UGC for RCT3 was scattered all over the place on many different websites and file hosting sites like Rapidshare and I think Frontier would rather it be done on their own site. It has been mentioned that Frontier would rather distribute the game through their own server, rather than Steam (which is debatable at the moment) and rather than have UGC done through a Steam Workshop, would prefer it be set up by a workshop of their own. That's the way I am reading this, but correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe if they do allow UGC I don't think it will be at launch, but could be implemented at a later stage. Like I mentioned about UGC and RCT3, I would prefer it to be uploaded to one site, where everyone knows where it is, rather than having to search all over the place and then find it has been deleted, or the server no longer exists and some files that are corrupt which crashes your game because it has bugs in it.

But whoever deals with it or how it is handled, it needs to be able to be installed by a self executing installer to the correct file folders in the game in order for the UGC to run properly.

https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/pc/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Wobbly https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/pc/buttons/viewpost-right.png
I'd prefer Steam, I know where I am with it - It works. I'd also like the idea of stream workshop too, a central secure place for it all, rather than things posted forums for people to upload and mod themselves.



I wouldn't exactly say Steam workshop is secure for file storage. Who's to say in a decades time, Steam decides to discontinue the SteamCommunity site - taking along most of the user generated content with it? That would be a bad thing to see happen.

Theoretically speaking.... What if we created something inside the game client to pull in, sync, upload user generated content?​

- Brett C / bc
​

They already have the blueprint exchange built in - so they have the equivalent of steam workshop in so far as sharing of content game to game is concerned. There would need to be some additional development work to make a smooth process of bringing in and sharing user generated content, but on a technical level it's not a huge task at all.

I really think it is much more likely to be a financial consideration for Frontier rather than a concern about how it could work or what the cost to implement it would be. As for hosting, you could probably host and share all the content ever created for RCT3 for less than $100 a month - so I doubt the small burden of the additional hosting is going to be a deal breaker.

As for Steam, I would say it seems inevitable that like all big games, this will at some point end up on Steam, and that version will use steam workshop. But actually frontier (David Braben) seem to be very happy developing their business as a self contained entity at the moment, so quite possibly not! I don't think it really matters though, if they include UGC they should have no problem at all making it every bit as easy to upload and share as it is with steam workshop.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Then the question is not "How important is UGC in Planet Coaster?", because we all know that the answer is yes, at different levels but still yes (for the players because they can make exactly what they want without limits, and also for Frontier, because this extend the lifespan of the game, and therefore the long-term sales numbers). Not to mention the fact that propose the integration of "modding" does not prevent to sell DLC / Expansions.

Anyway, we already have discussed this issue a lot...

The real question are the next ones : How will works this "theorically speaking custom content manager" that Brett C has talked about ?
Do they want to use the "EA/Ubisoft Cash Machine" strategy with selling DLC for extra greenbacks although it must taint the Frontier brand image for that ?
If yes, will it be possible to download the official content (DLC) and the free content (UGC) on the same platform ? Or the "cashshop" is different from the "content manager" ?
And questions like that ...

But "How important is UGC" is kind of obvious, and it's been a while since, in our discussions, we exceeded this question. Now we are in phase : "Show us how you plan to do"

You miss my point Angelis.

The poll and this discussion is important because whilst both us and Frontier know that never ending new content is desirable, they do have to make a financial decision. And to do that they have to judge if they will make more money long term by selling their own DLC, or by opening the game up to UGC and hopefully selling more copies as a result.

Frankly, that's a difficult decision to make! I don't know which would make most money. But Frontier have a much better chance of making the best decision if they know how many people may be put off from buying the game without UGC.

 

[Coasterbuff]

Thank you Deuce for explaining how it all works. That was the part that I was a little unclear about. (its my age, can't keep up with all this technology stuff. lol)

 

[Angelis1]

You miss my point Angelis.

The poll and this discussion is important because whilst both us and Frontier know that never ending new content is desirable, they do have to make a financial decision. And to do that they have to judge if they will make more money long term by selling their own DLC, or by opening the game up to UGC and hopefully selling more copies as a result.

Frankly, that's a difficult decision to make! I don't know which would make most money. But Frontier have a much better chance of making the best decision if they know how many people may be put off from buying the game without UGC.

Ahah. Okay. You miss my point too Deuce [yesnod]

Again : "The fact that propose the integration of "modding" does not prevent to sell DLC / Expansions". It's not even correlated.

It's not a "decision to make", they dont have the choice. We are not talking about a "Suggestion and Idea" here, but something will happen, no matter how.
Either they frame the creation of custom content, or we'll end up breaking the game anyway (at one time or another) and we will have UGC at the end (in bad conditions, using the bad way, which will encourage to make pirates copies, or illegal servers if it's online, etc ...)

So again, the question is not "How important is UGC in Planet Coaster ?" anymore, because we will have it in all cases, but "What the fair solution to regulate things ?"

 

[Candy_78]

I voted : It should be considered a key feature

 

[coencoensmeets]

I was just eating some food and this whole threat is blown up!

 

[Joël]

They already know the importance of CSO, CTR and CFR, no need a poll for that.

... But if this can help them to make a better system ... Voted ! [yesnod][up]

Personally I have never used UGC yet. That is, because I played RCT3 when we didn't have a permanent internet connection yet, and I didn't participate in any online activities.

From my first 3 months on this forum, I have learned that UGC is very important to a lot of players, and I see why. I've seen videos of UGC.

Now I have a question: what do the other abbreviations mean? I have some ideas, but don't really know. Can someone tell me what they mean?
CSO (custom scenery objects?)
CTR (custom transport rides?)
CFR (custom flat rides?)

 

[Daphnir]

Personally I have never used UGC yet. That is, because I played RCT3 when we didn't have a permanent internet connection yet, and I didn't participate in any online activities.

From my first 3 months on this forum, I have learned that UGC is very important to a lot of players, and I see why. I've seen videos of UGC.

Now I have a question: what do the other abbreviations mean? I have some ideas, but don't really know. Can someone tell me what they mean?
CSO (custom scenery objects?)
CTR (custom transport rides?)
CFR (custom flat rides?)

CSO: Custom scenery objects (objects and scenery)
CTR: Custom Track Ride (new cars for coasters) / CT: Custom Track (new track type![heart])
CFR: Custom Flat Ride (new flat rides!)

Custom Contents are so important for a lot of players! [yesnod]

 

[Nupol1]

It would be best to release an UGC Importer after all dlc´s. and maybe add the automatic download of included sets when downloading a Blueprint.

It should be a Keyfeature but i dont mind to wait. The Vanilla game will be awesome even without UCG at start.

 

[Joël]

CSO: Custom scenery objects (objects and scenery)
CTR: Custom Track Ride (new cars for coasters) / CT: Custom Track (new track type![heart])
CFR: Custom Flat Ride (new flat rides!)

Custom Contents are so important for a lot of players! [yesnod]

Thank you Daphnir! [happy]

 

[stuk71]

I guess it's all ok if it actually works with the game... The majority of the CTR and CFR I have tried out on RCT3 varied from looking great to looking mediocre, they did not have any sound effects, wouldn't mix with scenarios, and at times clunky with extra ride pieces that needed to fit together from CSO. Some of them I have tried wouldn't even line up the standard ride entrance and exits. I guess it's all down to what you want out of it... Are you the type that designs and builds a theme park that looks great, however, pretty much replacing everything that was shipped with game and painstakingly replacing it with UGC. Or are you the type that wants to design and build a fully functioning and financially successful theme park from the outset? I am the latter...

I admit that I do not see the need or attraction in discussing UGC at this very early stage in development. So far, Frontier have demonstrated phenomenal work, truly outstanding and groundbreaking. I for one cannot wait to play around with Planet Coaster, get lost in it, enjoy it, love it, and spend ridiculous amounts of time designing with it... The very last thing on my mind is "oh if only I could import that really cool ride that my neighbour knocked up in 3DSMax in less than 30 minutes"

Are you saying you don't like what Frontier have done so far? Are you saying that you have a much better grasp on what's best for Planet Coaster?

Just my opinion, nothing more

 

[Mr Deuce]

Ahah. Okay. You miss my point too Deuce [yesnod]

Again : "The fact that propose the integration of "modding" does not prevent to sell DLC / Expansions". It's not even correlated.

It's not a "decision to make", they dont have the choice. We are not talking about a "Suggestion and Idea" here, but something will happen, no matter how.
Either they frame the creation of custom content, or we'll end up breaking the game anyway (at one time or another) and we will have UGC at the end (in bad conditions, using the bad way, which will encourage to make pirates copies, or illegal servers if it's online, etc ...)

So again, the question is not "How important is UGC in Planet Coaster ?" anymore, because we will have it in all cases, but "What the fair solution to regulate things ?"

We have talked about this before if you remember. For various reasons I'm fairly certain this game won't be hackable in the way others are. I don't think it will be possible, or at least practicle to make PC do anything Frontier don't wish it to do.

I may be wrong of course. I almost hope I am lol. But for now, the fact there is a chance it could be added by a third party does not mean we shouldn't debate and push for it's inclusion by frontier themselves, from day one.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Are you saying you don't like what Frontier have done so far? Are you saying that you have a much better grasp on what's best for Planet Coaster?

Just my opinion, nothing more

Oh no, I like what they have done very much! And I agree that if they told me today UGC would never ever be an option, I would still be happy I pre-ordered and would love the game.

The difference is it's so much more fun to play a game that has an active community around it - I like sharing and comparing YouTube videos of what people achieve in these games. And the reason the RCT3 community is around 12 years later, and still so active is largely down to UGC. It enabled us to keep the game fresh and always create something entirely new.

There is also another reason... No matter how amazing Frontier's own scenery is there are certain things they can't do. They can't recreate anything trademarked for example. This may seem like no big deal but if you want to make a theme park recreation, custom scenery sets of logo's for burger king etc are quite useful. And if you want to make a perfect recreation of a ride, you kinda need the sign from the ride.. And the same size and type video screen in the queue. I realise most people don't go to such lengths, but I suspect a lot of people are inspired to play the game by those that do.