Powerplay 2.0 deep dive - Frontier Live 27th March

[Felix DiCestria]

Did anyone else notice that Granny Torval seems to have relocated?

View attachment 387913

Speculation about Torval's condition have have not been confirmed by her staff.

More variety on the concourse is good, and the carriers look interesting. Hope we get to have a look around without being pledged.
It'll be interesting if they move to a system by system mechanic rather than vast swathes being claimed without any direct interaction.

 

[Davadin]

I doubt they'll make it open-only. Best way to stimulate open play is by giving extra rewards in open.

.... or reduce rewards for Solo or PG.

In all honesty, these are nifty stuff, sure. But they're putting lipstick on a barely-alive horse. Double lipstick, sure.

Let's hope in a month they can come up with more meat, or PP is gonna be as dead as CQC in a year or so.

 

[Narfiam]

A while ago I saw a video on YouTube about the changes in PP 2.0 (didn't watch the streaming) and the only things they showed are stations skins related with the powerplay state in the current system, a way better powerplay galaxy map (the current one is a pain honestly) and a flotilla of big ships with a fleet carrier related to a powerplay faction but nothing about the gameplay changes, which is the most interesting thing. A bit underwhelming tbh.

Of the "tangible" changes shown the most interesting thing by far is the change to the powerplay galaxy map. We don't know the purpose of the carrier, but I hope that when we land on that carrier we can get a variety of missions with credits + merits as reward with the classic selectable reward (something like more merits and less credits and more credits and less merits).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Since they haven't talked about how the gameplay will change with PP2 its way too early yet to draw any sort of conculsions. All we saw was a few cosmetic changes.

What I really want to know is will PP2 simply be a rehash of the same sort of gameplay or will it be possible to align with a power, just do activities I enjoy, and help my power at the same time, or will it just be ABA deliveries or combat depending. Can I help by mining? Can I help by doing Odyssey style missions? Can I help by exploring? Will there be new mission types, like getting close to an opposing power's base and taking photos to provide intelligence to my power (remember photo missions from Frontier?).

Also important, will it be possible for new powers to rise and old powers to fall? Because if not, there is no point to PP at all. If there are no win/fail states, then its just the same as PP1, an eternal game of Risk, played with a bunch of Rimmer type people who spend every week doing stats and congratulating themselves on grinding all week just to take 1 star system, only for a week later to lose it again because CMDR Fred was unable to play that week and he was their biggest grinder.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

As usual, we get the open only crowd in here (livin it up at the Hotel Calfornia), but ok, let's talk about PvP, because that's what they are really talking about. Either wanting viable PvP mechanics in PP that will encourage people to partake or wanting people to gank while doing PP.

No point addressing the desires of the latter group here as they are a toxic element of the community that don't need catering to, let's focus on the former.

What can be done to make PvP a viable and fun component of PP that encourages (not forces) people to partake while not punishing those who don't care for that sort of gameplay?

It has to be something that means non-asymmetric PvP experience for those involved. Hauling propaganda materials while being hunted is asymmetric. Not fun for most people. Symmetric is where both can be flying combat ships and pit their relative skills against each other, winner getting the rewards. The activites themselves are only rewarded via PvP encouters.

It won't be interesting for the majority of players, but it would give those wanting PvP the opportunity to engage in PvP and be rewarded for it.

My concern here is it would be easy to exploit with alt accounts or collusion, but others have said there are ways of stopping that... would have to be seen.

Making PvP a viable gameplay choice to get wins is a decent idea. Forcing people or punishing people for not partaking is a bad idea.

 

[DYSEQTA]

How is interacting with the game's background simulation anything other than PvE? The background simulation isn't a player, it's literally the environment.

The subject of discussion is the competitive nature of Power Play, not the BGS itself. The fact that Power Play is a manipulation of the BGS means that those particular manipulations are PvP interactions even if the rest of the BGS manipulation a player can engage in is PvE. So it would be only fair that the manipulations of the BGS that are Power Play related be affected primarily by those that are properly engaged in the PvP nature of this aspect of the game.

Note that what I was actually saying is that I don't think Power Play should be exclusive to Open, even if I can absolutely understand those who would like it to be, and instead stated that the best thing FDev can do, IMHO and considering previous commitments they have made is reduce the impact of interactions that are not initiated in Open. Personally I would go for a multiplier system. 100% for interactions in Open, 50% in Private Group and 20% in Solo. This way you are not being shut out of the gameplay by your choices but your choices will still be taken into account appropriately and would provide an easy path for poeple to perhaps be coaxed into Open play softly.

 

[styles784]

The subject of discussion is the competitive nature of Power Play, not the BGS itself. The fact that Power Play is a manipulation of the BGS means that those particular manipulations are PvP interactions even if the rest of the BGS manipulation a player can engage in is PvE. So it would be only fair that the manipulations of the BGS that are Power Play related be affected primarily by those that are properly engaged in the PvP nature of this aspect of the game.

By that line of reasoning, even mining is PvP, because selling commodities to a market affects supply and demand, which effects the price for the next cmdr.

It's more accurate to say that some players want PP to be PvP, but it's a lot easier to argue for changes that would make it become PvP if they can sell the idea that it already is PvP, so that's an inconvenient admission.

Note that what I was actually saying is that I don't think Power Play should be exclusive to Open, even if I can absolutely understand those who would like it to be, and instead stated that the best thing FDev can do, IMHO and considering previous commitments they have made is reduce the impact of interactions that are not initiated in Open. Personally I would go for a multiplier system. 100% for interactions in Open, 50% in Private Group and 20% in Solo. This way you are not being shut out of the gameplay by your choices but your choices will still be taken into account appropriately and would provide an easy path for poeple to perhaps be coaxed into Open play softly.

The problem is that reducing the impact in PG and solo won't work - for one, players will sidestep your suggested 20% in solo by having a one-person PG to get the 50%, which will ruffle some feathers. In addition, players who already complain about the amount of grind in a game that they choose to play as a grind are far more likely to just grind harder and increase their complaints than to give in and be forced into open.

People tend to resent feeling forced and coerced - FDev would lose some players, and have an increase in complaints from others, and the PvP community would still be largely just as unhappy as they already are. It's a lose-lose-lose scenario to even attempt.

 

[Taimaru]

I doubt they'll make it open-only. Best way to stimulate open play is by giving extra rewards in open.

One will be able to meet Aisling in person but only in Open Play.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I

Since they haven't talked about how the gameplay will change with PP2 its way too early yet to draw any sort of conculsions. All we saw was a few cosmetic changes.

What I really want to know is will PP2 simply be a rehash of the same sort of gameplay or will it be possible to align with a power, just do activities I enjoy, and help my power at the same time, or will it just be ABA deliveries or combat depending. Can I help by mining? Can I help by doing Odyssey style missions? Can I help by exploring? Will there be new mission types, like getting close to an opposing power's base and taking photos to provide intelligence to my power (remember photo missions from Frontier?).

Also important, will it be possible for new powers to rise and old powers to fall? Because if not, there is no point to PP at all. If there are no win/fail states, then its just the same as PP1, an eternal game of Risk, played with a bunch of Rimmer type people who spend every week doing stats and congratulating themselves on grinding all week just to take 1 star system, only for a week later to lose it again because CMDR Fred was unable to play that week and he was their biggest grinder.

Like I said earlier, we need to see a dev / Arthur go through the motions of what a pledge does to improve their power. So to me this would be:

How do you pledge (and what perks / bonuses do you get)
What do I do- is it mission based, BGS based etc and do a mission from beginning to end:
1: Select an area you'd want to improve using the new PP map (and explain how it works)
2: Travel there and do the job, perhaps going to rival powers and see reations from NPCs
3: Return and collect the rewards (and explain them).

While I did enjoy seeing glimpses of new things its like being given three jigsaw pieces from a 10000 Ravensburger beast. I know it was a last minute dev substitution but as time goes on the presentation needs more structure and illustrative. But then we do have three / four more livestreams and the forum / ED offical page to post information.

 

[fennster]

Am I right in thinking the livestream wasn't advertised anywhere on the forums apart from this thread?

 

[DYSEQTA]

While I did enjoy seeing glimpses of new things its like being given three jigsaw pieces from a 10000 Ravensburger beast.

Let's just hope that it is a 10000 piece beast. I would personally hope that all existing aspects of the game are integrated into it in some way or another.

If it turns out we saw 3 pieces from a 4 piece puzzle I'm gonna straight up cry.

 

[Dragsham]

I want PP to be what it's potentially capable of. Engrossing, inclusive, mass appeal, and above all, relevant.
Not just running from A to B delivering leaflets or merits etc. There's really huge scope for PP to be unique in the gaming world.
After seeing the vid, my heart sank.
Yeah @Rubbernuke is right it's early days and we only got a glimpse.
Of banners and posters and vending machines!
Really!
Where's the meat n taters?
Elite needs this. The goids and on foot malarkey has not done this game any favours.
Nows the time to get it right fdev!

 

[Rainbro]

How is interacting with the game's background simulation anything other than PvE? The background simulation isn't a player, it's literally the environment.

Because you aren't the only person looking to influence it, and your actions have an impact beyond just yourself. In my opinion, if a player wants to have an impact on other players, it wouldn't be unreasonable for that to be best served by the multiplayer mode, but that ship has long since sailed.

 

[Cmdr Alison]

One reason for a different placement of Torval could be that Synteini does not have a landable planet. However, Tionisla is 135 LY away from Synteini. (Mahon/Winters area) Actually, this cannot be true in relation to existing PMFs or it is an indication of a complete reset, starting from zero.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Let's just hope that it is a 10000 piece beast. I would personally hope that all existing aspects of the game are integrated into it in some way or another.

If it turns out we saw 3 pieces from a 4 piece puzzle I'm gonna straight up cry.

We will just have to see. So far FD seem to be on the right track, making Powerplay stamp itself onto (and into) the visible game. Its almost as if FD have gone back to what PP was supposed to be in the top layer of the BGS- now we have (visually at least) something that moves far beyond what faction states show.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I

Like I said earlier, we need to see a dev / Arthur go through the motions of what a pledge does to improve their power. So to me this would be:

How do you pledge (and what perks / bonuses do you get)
What do I do- is it mission based, BGS based etc and do a mission from beginning to end:
1: Select an area you'd want to improve using the new PP map (and explain how it works)
2: Travel there and do the job, perhaps going to rival powers and see reations from NPCs
3: Return and collect the rewards (and explain them).

While I did enjoy seeing glimpses of new things its like being given three jigsaw pieces from a 10000 Ravensburger beast. I know it was a last minute dev substitution but as time goes on the presentation needs more structure and illustrative. But then we do have three / four more livestreams and the forum / ED offical page to post information.

I'm sure both of us have mulled the possibility of linking PP with the BGS previously. One thing i'd like to see is an end to the idiocy of an Empire Power controlling a Fed BGS system and similar.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

mass appeal

Without this aspect, its going to be PP1 all over again, a niche activity, ignored by most of the community.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm sure both of us have mulled the possibility of linking PP with the BGS previously. One thing i'd like to see is an end to the idiocy of an Empire Power controlling a Fed BGS system and similar.

At this point its all guesswork given we don't know what changes have occurred 'under the hood.' But given how far the BGS has gone along with the Thargoid war sim its crazy to keep something from 2015*

*one would hope

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

But given how far the BGS has gone along with the Thargoid war sim

How, exactly? It's the same "fill the buckets" scheme but with far less nuance than regular faction BGS - grossly unbalanced activities with no diminished returns, missions that can't be fulfilled because of lack of targets, RNG based encounters... and still revolves around the weekly tick.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

At this point its all guesswork given we don't know what changes have occurred 'under the hood.' But given how far the BGS has gone along with the Thargoid war sim its crazy to keep something from 2015*

*one would hope

Yeah, we are boned aren't we?