Powerplay 2.0 deep dive - Frontier Live 27th March

[Taimaru]

As Powerplay 2.0 is Simon's "baby" being the lead artictect it makes sense that he's the one to do a proper deep dive into the mechanics, especially as he is really excited about it and has the most knowledge.

It was unfortunate that Simon is off sick at the moment and Frontier had two choices - either cancel the Powerplay "show & tell" completely or show some of the visuals which Luke kindly stepped in and talked about in Simon's absence. It would have been disappointing to Simon (and us) if he wasn't around to talk about the mechanics.

So I wouldn't give up hope just yet as I'm sure that if there are exciting things to be said about the mechanics that will happen in due time with Simon doing the talk/demo.

 

[Dragsham]

The BGS, PP, & the economy should all be tightly bound together. The permutations having direct consequences upon any given change(s). Profound changes potentially. Tritium prices skyrocketing. Ore prices plummeting. Regional differences patently obvious. Sell this in empire space you'll get a better price for example.
I appreciate the existing PP appeal to those who partake, but getting the rest of us involved needs relevance.
You wanna incentivise cmdrs. Get em in the pocket.
And if I'm empire affiliated I should not be in fed or any other space. Consequences dire let's have it!
Make us wanna be part of it because in doing so will benefit us. For whatever reason.
Opting In and out should not be so casual either. Most of us are guilty of opting in for mods n weps. Its just plain wrong.
The economy is key.

 

[Rubbernuke]

How, exactly? It's the same "fill the buckets" scheme but with far less nuance than regular faction BGS - grossly unbalanced activities with no diminished returns, missions that can't be fulfilled because of lack of targets, RNG based encounters... and still revolves around the weekly tick.

Well its much better than the two open ended shoot or haul wing missions we have in PP V1. The Thargoid sim also has fringe wars in border areas, with varying degrees of intrusion, all things that would suit Powerplay (just between eleven(?) powers). Bear in mind too (and why I mentioned it) you also have the 'human' BGS too- so if you blend them together you get a possible PP V2 with a lot of possibilities.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And if I'm empire affiliated I should not be in fed or any other space. Consequences dire let's have it!

Whoa, slow down there tiger! The Fed and Empire aren't in open war. And making it that way would limit Fed and Empire players in ways that Alliance and Independent players would not be.

 

[Barking_Mad]

The cosmetic changes are welcome, it will at least help to gel PP into the main game. Will have to wait for more information, if there is much more to give...

It's a shame the general system states aren't represented better in game for boom, bust, famine etc. I realise it's a lot of work but stations do feel very sterile.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The cosmetic changes are welcome, it will at least help to gel PP into the main game. Will have to wait for more information, if there is much more to give...

There should be plenty more (a few off the top of my head but there are many more)

V1>2 transition
Power modules
Perks / bonuses
What do we actually do
What differences are there between contested, exploited, stronghold and fortified
What role (if any) gov types have
How do NPCS behave (as in, how do they oppose / greet you)
How do we attack / defend
Why should powers compete (as in, whats the goal to be #1?)
What role does PvP have (as stated by FDev before)
How do powers expand / consequences

 

[Flimley]

There should be plenty more (a few off the top of my head but there are many more)

V1>2 transition
Power modules
Perks / bonuses
What do we actually do
What differences are there between contested, exploited, stronghold and fortified
What role (if any) gov types have
How do NPCS behave (as in, how do they oppose / greet you)
How do we attack / defend
Why should powers compete (as in, whats the goal to be #1?)
What role does PvP have (as stated by FDev before)
How do powers expand / consequences

Plus those elusive Flimley points that vanished some time ago.
i also welcome the cosmetic changes. It will be good to have something different to look at in addition to current stufz.

Flimley

 

[HRDiagram]

Power modules
Perks / bonuses

These are two aspects that I care about a lot.
One of the first things they mentioned in the PP section of the stream were the "rewards" (just a generic statement).
As someone who has never really engaged with PP but is looking forward to its new incarnation, I am hoping that whatever perks come with it, are strictly associated with PP, and do not entail PP tourism instead (like the current module shopping).
I hope one could stick to a specific faction out of interest/lore/RP/fun, rather than because "given the rewards others give, I could only stick with this".
I expect rewards to be different, and possibly a best and a worst will be there, but not with such a divide that some factions are mostly ignored because they offer nothing better than others (portraits aside).

As someone to whom the journey is more important than the destination, I hope that PP2.0 could be the biggest reward for playing PP2.0, with all its associated gameloops.

 

[Rainbro]

Hmm. I wonder if Torval being in Tionisla was just a quick swap to avoid revealing a new power? It would be an odd coincidence for that system to be mistaken for Torval's, given it's where Kaine is based.

The Alliance will need a new power to represent it anyway, since Mahon will be busy representing Sirius

 

[Rebel Yell]

And if I'm empire affiliated I should not be in fed or any other space. Consequences dire let's have it!
Make us wanna be part of it because in doing so will benefit us. For whatever reason.

This!

First requirement to keep peeps engaged is the "feeling of being part of something" (even if participation is spreaded across the various game modes).

 

[Hellrider]

As usual, we get the open only crowd in here (livin it up at the Hotel Calfornia), but ok, let's talk about PvP, because that's what they are really talking about. Either wanting viable PvP mechanics in PP that will encourage people to partake or wanting people to gank while doing PP.

Ah yes, again "ganking"
Let's start, as easy as possible.
PP is at core mechanic, where powers expand because PLAYERS support them.
Different players support different powers, so technically they compete with each other.
Call me crazy, but I think that indirect competition shouldnt be avaliable from mode, where you cannot see any resistance
It isn't about ganking, as some people pretend.
Additionally, not all players do all possible gameloops, so sorry but "sOmE pLaYeRs dIsLiKe tHiS" isn't valid argument. Stop with narration "everything must be for all people". Some people cannot handle even 10 jumps in bubble, so what with exploration? Maybe we should increase jump ranges to level of 70k ly
I'm not pvper, but for me doing "community" things in mode other than open always was...weird, at the best.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This!

First requirement to keep peeps engaged is the "feeling of being part of something" (even if participation is spreaded across the various game modes).

In this regard I think what was shown was promising, but I'd like to know how this translates in space. Currently territory is pointless in V1 and I'm keen to know what response we get when intruding and while 'home' (the 'welcome with open arms' quote in strongholds).

For the former I'm hoping what happens is old skool 2.x lockdowns with navy ships chasing you about and all hell breaking loose.

 

[Shurimal]

I am hoping that whatever perks come with it, are strictly associated with PP, and do not entail PP tourism instead (like the current module shopping).

I remain of the opinion that module rewards were and are a bad idea. The existing PP modules should be added to power-specific tech brokers so they're available to unlock for all (because removing them from game wouldn't be an option at this point), but still remain somewhat exclusive.

The rewards for being pledged should be immaterial gameplay perks, eg better trade profits, bounty hunting/combat bond bonuses, higher BGS influence of your actions, lower outfitting and ship maintenance costs, ability to clear bounties without going to jail even when notorious etc. Essentially acting as perks/skills/birthsigns/guild perks in RPG-s incentivizing everyone to join a faction according to their playstyle/RP.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Ah yes, again "ganking"
Let's start, as easy as possible.
PP is at core mechanic, where powers expand because PLAYERS support them.
Different players support different powers, so technically they compete with each other.
Call me crazy, but I think that indirect competition shouldnt be avaliable from mode, where you cannot see any resistance
It isn't about ganking, as some people pretend.
Additionally, not all players do all possible gameloops, so sorry but "sOmE pLaYeRs dIsLiKe tHiS" isn't valid argument. Stop with narration "everything must be for all people". Some people cannot handle even 10 jumps in bubble, so what with exploration? Maybe we should increase jump ranges to level of 70k ly
I'm not pvper, but for me doing "community" things in mode other than open always was...weird, at the best.

You're misunderstanding me. That part wasn't about the mechanics, it was about the motivation.

We can care about the motivation of those who want PvP as a form of challenge and want engaging PvP gameplay. We don't need to give a toss about those who just want to blow up people who can't fight back.

Understand now?

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Well its much better than the two open ended shoot or haul wing missions we have in PP V1.

Is it, though? It's barely a "sim" at all - it's an algorithm that runs once a week, responding to player actions and setting new states based on which goals were reached and which ones weren't. With the added bonus that if goals are reached early there's nothing to do, and if it's clear that they won't be reached by the end of the week nobody bothers to attempt them.

.... which is basically the same as how PP works now, I guess.

 

[metatheurgist]

One thing i'd like to see is an end to the idiocy of an Empire Power controlling a Fed BGS system and similar.

I have a feeling we're gonna be seeing all those Imperial standards in Fed controlled systems just because some arbitrary circle of influence was involved and vice versa.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

Either wanting viable PvP mechanics in PP that will encourage people to partake or wanting people to gank while doing PP.

No point addressing the desires of the latter group here as they are a toxic element of the community that don't need catering to, let's focus on the former.

It has to be something that means non-asymmetric PvP experience for those involved. Hauling propaganda materials while being hunted is asymmetric. Not fun for most people. Symmetric is where both can be flying combat ships and pit their relative skills against each other, winner getting the rewards. The activites themselves are only rewarded via PvP encouters.

To get viable PvP you kinda need skill based matchmaking based on a rating and that just makes things more toxic even without the ganking aspect in most games. Without that you can end up with widely asymmetric encounters due to skill difference even if both sides have the same tools

Using PP to add (and remove, if you can blame your team!) stakes from PvP encounters is a good idea, but the stakes for each individual PP action are so low it's not really engaging.

V1>2 transition
Power modules
Perks / bonuses
What do we actually do
What differences are there between contested, exploited, stronghold and fortified
What role (if any) gov types have
How do NPCS behave (as in, how do they oppose / greet you)
How do we attack / defend
Why should powers compete (as in, whats the goal to be #1?)
What role does PvP have (as stated by FDev before)
How do powers expand / consequences

The answer to most of these is station interiors based on the stream.

As for what to expect I remain by what I said in some earlier thread - expect more of a reshuffling/re-naming (polishing?) of existing stuff rather than much new or game-changing here.

 

[Pigletslastand]

We don't need to give a toss about those who just want to blow up people who can't fight back.

Here's a for instance:

Someone is undermining your attempt to keep a power in a system
They are ferrying goods into your system to prop up a rival faction
They have a tag saying they are from the opposing power
You are in your system patrolling it to make sure that does not happen
You spot the interloper actively working against you by hauling for the other power
You are armed to the teeth and prepared for combat, he is not
You attack and destroy him for actively working against your power.

Is that considered by you to be legitimate PvP because by your definition given he is not prepared to fight back and you are. You are 'ganking' him. But I deny that that term fits in this stated instance.

The reason why we need to have some elements of Powerplay weighted towards open is that this type of gameplay cannot exist without the open element. A person can (and I'm reliably informed do) set up a bot to make this automatic, safe in the knowledge they can help undermine a system that is player versus player without ever having to interact with a player wishing to stop them.

 

[Walter2]

. . . ability to clear bounties without going to jail even when notorious etc. . . .

Starting to sound horribly like RL.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Ok guys first things first: even if I am basically retired due to real life reasons (like having not much time to play anymore), I love the very fact we are talking about Powerplay 2.0, sadly the "deep dive" was marginally a sneak peek, but I think we can deduce some things from the lttle they showed us.

First what we learned:

• Station interiors will reflect graphically if the system is exploited by a Power, more if it is Fortified
• The Galaxy Map is completely new and we can see that the "bubbles" are no more
• When a system is in Stronghold state there will be some kind of support mega-ships for the system, where players will be able to interact with them in different ways
• During the stream it's been mentioned that there will be 4 Powerplay related states, one of them being "Stronghold", the other two presumibly being "Exploited" and "Fortified", the fourth doesn't seem to have been mentioned

Now what we can deduce (or at least what I deduced looking at the very scarce informations we had))

The very fact that station interiors will be affected by Powerplay states makes me think that these states will be all week long, mimicking what already happens with Thargoid Wars, this is the first analogy that makes me wonder if PP2.0 will be some sort of competitive Thargoid War between players.
Looking at the Galaxy Map, the initial distribution of systems seems to have some "continuity" between them, almost following commercial routes: even if it could be something related to the WIP state of the project, the very fact that it seems we do not have control systems anymore makes me wonder if the "propagation" of a Power influence is more something related to the Stronghold state maybe, which extends the influence of that Power to surrounding systems, making them exploited and ready to be fortified.
The analogy with the Thargoid War system, the interaction with the megaships present in Stronghold state and in general how things seem different in the Galaxy Map, make me confident about how we will probably (and finally) have Powerplay missions, or at least different ways to contribute than hauling stuff from a point A to a point B and/or killing enemy NPCs.

I understand this is totally speculative but sadly we've been given very few informations at this point. What's your opinion about that?