Pricing of fleet carrier: catering to small as well as large squadrons.

Devari

D
DrewCarnegie said:
I mean, you can't land a Hercules/C-130 on the Ark Royal, let alone an Airbus 380.
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You can however do this with a B-25, which was never designed or intended for carrier operations:

37FX31D.jpg
 

lenna

lenna
DrewCarnegie said:
Personally, I'm looking forward to FDev announcing that fleet carriers only have small pads :D

I mean, you can't land a Hercules/C-130 on the Ark Royal, let alone an Airbus 380.
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You can operate some of the larger aircraft of the American Enterprise class though. ;)

The main restrictions are runway lengths... For example, the French carrier Charles De Gaulle had to be lengthened because it was not long enough for the Eurofighter.
 

Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
Dommarraa said:
I know some people refuse to accept it because it doesn't match their desires, but the fully operational Gnosis took a full CG to build. I dont have the number of tonnes to hand, but it is probably recorded somewhere.
The newer functionality with more sophisticated material levels for fixing a station are probably a better ball park to look at, maybe 1 of those for each level of functionality. Yes this means that a group of Bob and his Cat will effectively be unable to build their own carrier, but IMHO, the carriers are only a small part of squadrons functionality.

Processing of Player Groups was suspended a while ago, with no indication that the manual process would ever start again which raises some points:
1) Thats it, no more player groups ever - Cant see that as they add a lot to the game
2) Its too much work to do manually - Some interface with an automated approval process is required

That, and mentions of other squadron functionality leaves me to conclude that :
Player Groups will be renamed Squadrons and given some guild type functionality
The will be some sort of interface for creating Squadrons, maybe in game, maybe a web interface that uses your account login.
CMDRs will finally be able to pledge to a Squadron so the squadron level communication can work
You will need a number of pledges before your squadron gets given its home system and presence in-game. If your number of pledges drops too low, the squadron can be archived (as we saw recently with that Permit system)
The creator of the Squadron will be able to use the interface to start carrier creation/upgrade, or set its next destination on Thursday downtime

It should be noted that Gnosis is not actually owned by the Canonn PG. For BGS reasons, FD had to create a new neutered faction (like an Engineers faction) with a similar name. These clone/neutered factions are what it might all be based on. Thats a bit of a shame, as the real and neutered faction are not at all linked, which cuts out lots of nice PG pledging functionality that I would like to see, but hey-ho. We cant have exactly what we want, none of us can.

There may well be more to squadrons, but even after FD accepted that Player Groups were a good thing, they still seem to shy away from full Guilds, so exactly how far it goes is anyones guess.
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Wait, what.

Processing of player groups was suspended? When did this happen and are you referring to PMFs too because as far as I'm aware the process is ongoing.
 

M00dyBoy

Banned
M00dyBoy
Bunkerkind Anni said:
and we still have no detailed roadmap for after horizons
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We have the Beyond roadmap. If you are suggesting the two major missing expansaions are hidden in missing "detail", then you'll be disappointed.

Bunkerkind Anni said:
actuall, it is, you need to review it, its basicly the introduction, the first words of Sandro about the beyond Q1
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Claim was "Group/Wing missions have been announced for introduction under coverage of the 2018 series of updates."

Request was "Citation needed for group missions."

Your response, a Sandro citation of wing missions, misrepresented by you as a citation for group missions.
 

lenna

lenna
M00dyBoy said:
Why would anyone expect new carriers to be player movable? The existing one isn't.
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FD Have described them as such - they are not immovable outposts from what FD seem to have been describing.

Existing ones are moveable - just not by us... See Jacques station as a single example.
 

Cosmo

Cosmo
They said a Fleet Carrier will be purchasable by a Squadron. So it will be a group effort. Maybe players can put money in a Squadron bank account (guild bank) to purchase it and pay for maintenance, upgrades.
 
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dubsdj

dubsdj
My only query is what if your carrier gets destroyed? I would assume you would lose your entire fleet of ships? That would be pretty awful.

I would much rather they had hundreds of fleet ships moving around the galaxy and were dockable at any time and you could hop off a day later in a different system.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Cosmo said:
Maybe players can put money in a Squadron bank account (guild bank) to purchase it and pay for maintenance, upgrades.
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Maybe - however I don't expect that any player will be able to withdraw more than they have deposited (plus any earnings from Squadron activities) from any Squadron bank as that would constitute player to player credit transfer.
 

Cosmo

Cosmo
Robert Maynard said:
Maybe - however I don't expect that any player will be able to withdraw more than they have deposited (plus any earnings from Squadron activities) from any Squadron bank as that would constitute player to player credit transfer.
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They can make it so deposits (credits, materials, fuel) are only spent on the Fleet Carrier and Squadron related stuff.

Hedgehobbit said:
Currently, player groups add nothing to the game. All they are is a player-named minor faction. In order for player groups to be something the average player would want to join, you need to create content and then cut off that content from non-squadron members. So, rather than having player groups form naturally as they do now (via discord or similar), FDev will be forcing players to join groups solely to access the content that FDev limited to groups in the first place.
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There would be things that only a Squadron can do due to the new possibilities of having a Fleet Carrier which is a mobile-base.


Hedgehobbit said:
This is the primary reason why I think squadron-based assets are a bad idea. You'll have one player controlling the asset as his own private battle taxi while all the other squadron members (who, presumably, worked to purchase the carrier) have no say in how the carrier is used.

This is my fear. That all the "squadron" mechanics will do is create a small number of super-users that dominate play while the vast majority gain little to nothing for all their efforts.
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The Squadron leader (CEO etc) sets the roles (permissions) for all other members who join it. Those members can accept, negotiate or leave if they don't like it.
 
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CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
Cosmo said:
They said a Fleet Carrier will be purchasable by a Squadron. So it will be a group effort. Maybe players can put money in a Squadron bank account (guild bank) to purchase it and pay for maintenance, upgrades.
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I think that's how FDev will implement it. Similar to many other MMOs. Guild bank, different ranks for members with different access to guild assets - like the bank.

Robert Maynard said:
Maybe - however I don't expect that any player will be able to withdraw more than they have deposited (plus any earnings from Squadron activities) from any Squadron bank as that would constitute player to player credit transfer.
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Knowing FDev they will implement it in a way that is very restrictive for the intended gameplay and wide open for exploits.

Can't wait for the salt tsunami that is surely to happen, when the first Guild bank officer runs away with the entire contents of the guild bank.
(Not to mention the "Pro guilds" where the peasant members have to do the slave labour needed to buy and maintain a carrier just to be part of the guild while the officers do nothing)

Squadrons and carriers will be a lot of fun for those not in a squadron :D
 

Cosmo

Cosmo
CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
I think that's how FDev will implement it. Similar to many other MMOs. Guild bank, different ranks for members with different access to guild assets - like the bank.
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Yes hopefully.

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
Can't wait for the salt tsunami that is surely to happen, when the first Guild bank officer runs away with the entire contents of the guild bank.
(Not to mention the "Pro guilds" where the peasant members have to do the slave labour needed to buy and maintain a carrier just to be part of the guild while the officers do nothing)
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These things happen in other MMOs too like World of Warcraft and Eve Online. Part of joining a guild is putting trust in the leaders. A player can start a new guild (squadron) if they want to manage everything.
 

Boff'in

Boff'in
as the OP said,
expensive to kit out.
cheap to buy - you could have a squadron of small medium and large ships.

If you think about it.
The small bases and megaships (especially the dockable triangular shaped ones) to date have been built of modular components.

So imagine the base price is an engine with central spine sticking out that can be extended with new modules (like the Discover in 2001).
So 9xsmall landing pads (one module).
6x Medium landing pads (another module, a bit pricier).
3x Large landing pads (blimey how much and how much mass?).


UPKEEP
We can't solely have money to maintain them.
These things are going to have to survive out in the black, as a mobile base for explorers.

RE-FUELING (player and carrier)
Fuel is required for jumps, (much like Jacques).
so we must be able to mine for hydrogen (and water) and have fuel conversion.
empty our own fuel tanks from a fuel scoop into the main carrier tanks?

Questions:
do we use the same pool of fuel, so when we refuel, we eat away from the carriers own reserve?




Re-arming & repairing.

Two different sorts of fabricators are required here from gamelore.
Again it's a grind to get them and a grind to maintain the stock.
(again progress bars)



Outfitting, (we can't maintain stocks of actual weapons but transfer existing stored modules).

Re-arm (module to sink time and materials/money in)
and then to keep those fabricators loaded with the correct materials

Travel

I'm assuming these things jump every thursday ;)
And additionally we can add a suggested system, and people then up-vote that system. A bit like the powerplay system for voting to attack a system next cycle.
 
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lenna

lenna
CMDR_Hardway said:
IIRC France doesn't operate the Eurofighter, they have their own Dassault Rafale. Charles de Gaulle's flight deck was extended by about fourteen feet to accommodate the E-2C Hawkeye.
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At one point they were originally going to operate the Eurofighter at the time the Charles de Gaulle was being produced (pre-2000) and it was not until after some disagreement or other that they abandoned it in favour of their own Franco-fighter (the Rafale bears more than a passing resemblance to the Eurofighter).

As far as the larger ships in ED are concerned - they do not have the same issues that most current larger aircraft have since they are all VTOL capable (c/f the V-22 Osprey).

It is pretty off-topic though - the point was that larger aircraft can and do operate off current gen aircraft carriers and it is not a good basis to claim that larger ships can not operate off Fleet Carriers.

From what I can tell, we can expect the Fleet Carriers to be comparable in size to the Farragaut (maybe half it's size).
 
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