Proposal: alternative to outright removal of ADS instascan & system map minigame for explorers

[MadDogMurdock]

What do think happens on a regular hyper jump? Do you really think the timer is just there as an arbitrary time sink? Also, what

 currently exists could be enhanced at any time and as such require more processing cycles or server transmissions. I'm no developer but these considerations seem quite obvious to me?[/QUOTE]

What's the jump got to do with anything?

There are two transaction calls in play that I can see as far as discovery goes.

Loading the entire system - unchanged because you need that before you get there.
Getting further info about a body from the body scan - unchanged apart from where it is triggered.

 

[StuartGT]

Did you raise this issue while you were there during "The Visit" and what kind of response did you receive?

Myself and Obsidian Ant spoke with the devs about how a niche (of a niche) of explorers (including OA for video footage) rely on the instascan system map and how the "Black circles" concept may satisfy most of them, in tandem with the new additions/changes.

FDev understandably want players to test the new mechanics during beta, so that they can analyse the metrics and read all of our beta feedback. Only then will they consider any changes, which sounds fair.

OA is already planning on adapting his exploration style, as are some others that are directly impacted; the overwhelming majority are vocally supportive of all the exploration changes.

Whether the players that will not adapt are of a sizeable enough number or not we'll have to wait and see - and FDev will have both the metrics and feedback to make an informed decision (regardless of noisy hyperbole).

 

[StuartGT]

You won't be able to play Radio Planet Game and supercruise to an ELW at the same time. Why? Because Will Flanagan just informed us yesterday that when in Radio Planet Game mode, your ship is throttled to zero.

Having an option to not set throttle to zero while using the FSS doesn't seem like an insurmountable task.

 

[Malic]

You won't be able to play Radio Planet Game and supercruise to an ELW at the same time. Why? Because Will Flanagan just informed us yesterday that when in Radio Planet Game mode, your ship is throttled to zero.

Am trying to get some confirmation, there may be miscommunication then because it was my understanding that the ship throttle stays set to what you had when you go into that screen letting you travel while still scanning.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Am trying to get some confirmation, there may be miscommunication then because it was my understanding that the ship throttle stays set to what you had when you go into that screen letting you travel while still scanning.

Here's your confirmation right here...

You are throttled to zero when using the FSS, but you are not when using the Detailed Surface Scanner (DSS).

 

[Malic]

You seem to misunderstand that that is the part that might be misreported. What we saw and asked about during the preview does not align with that statement. That is why I am trying to get confirmation, but is not a thing that happens instantly on a weekend.

 

[Lightspeed]

Myself and Obsidian Ant spoke with the devs about how a niche (of a niche) of explorers (including OA for video footage) rely on the instascan system map and how the "Black circles" concept may satisfy most of them, in tandem with the new additions/changes.

FDev understandably want players to test the new mechanics during beta, so that they can analyse the metrics and read all of our beta feedback. Only then will they consider any changes, which sounds fair.

OA is already planning on adapting his exploration style, as are some others that are directly impacted; the overwhelming majority are vocally supportive of all the exploration changes.

Whether the players that will not adapt are of a sizeable enough number or not we'll have to wait and see - and FDev will have both the metrics and feedback to make an informed decision (regardless of noisy hyperbole).

Yes, those overwhelmingly in favor of the idea have no real idea how it affects gameplay until they've tried it more than a few times, myself included. I'm glad they will monitor opinion on this as the Beta progresses, since at the moment no-one can really offer opinion based on personal experience.

Thankyou for responding, +1 (and in some alternative universe, it appears I have already repped you for that comment and cannot rep you again :O[haha]).

 

[disorganise]

Hello,

I was one of the 17 individuals that were invited to Frontiers HQ a few weeks ago and after reading this thread I think there are a couple major things that everyone seems to be omitting.

I see explorers as falling into one of four groups.

Let me go into a bit more detail:

Because of the new community shared mapping, the people that never explore wont be required to do most of the stuff, they jump into a system, the system map has already been populated, they dont need to even honk anymore because it is already there. The majority of populated systems and most of the systems between those in the bubble are going to already be mapped out for these players. Even if they do decided to go somewhere, they will have the major straight lines between the Bubble, Colonia and Sag A* already mapped for them. and then they move into category 2.

So the nav beacons aren't needed anymore then?
Or is this info only shared if you have an ads on board?

These players will still be receiving the same credits that they do in the current system, the honk still gets the commander the same amount of credits as the current system. If they decide to take a look around they move into category 3

And there in lies the rub. We (the folks that appear to explore like I do, which is a mix of 2, 3 and 4, together at the same time) don't care about credits. Take away the credits and we'd still be out there doing our thing.

Here is the only time there is a negative ( in a single type of scenario, read to end, the end net is positive. )

If you jump into the system and honk, and glance at the wave form, once you understand that a waveform in a specific area is the Earth-like, that will be the one that people are looking for. Skill based gameplay, just like learning what the different bands on the SRV wave-scanner meant.

This includes relative size and colour info, right? I want to see the rich red hmc orbiting the bright green gas giant. *that's * what the system map shows today.
In future, I think this is hidden until we play sliders. It may only be 20 or 30 secs but..... 10,000 systems or more.
The hit rate isn't changing because the forge isn't changing as far as I know. So I need to filter thousands of systems to find the thing I'm looking for.

If you are looking for cool things to look at or take pictures, the system map just showed colors,

"just" colours. Uh huh. It's the aberrations that make thing interesting dude.

now you get a full on zoomed in view of the body without having to fly there in advance, so you are not wasting your time before you decide to go there.

Only after you tune in. Again... Let's say 20 to 30 secs. Versus the current honk.
If you decide to fly there, you decide to fly there.... Both methods take the same time to fly just the new one gives you the surface map straight away (I think)

Most replies that I have read though that have complaints seem to be focusing on a single aspect of the new system without looking at the overall picture. Yes there might be some cases that the old system was faster, but this is in very specific senarios, what time you lost in a single star system you make up thrice or more over in the next star system. You would have to go out of your way or RNG into a very dead space of the galaxy to have it take longer then the current system to do the same thing. Overall the process is greatly sped up.

I'll have some of whatever you're smoking

I agree it will be much much faster to tag bodies in the new system. It will, however, be much much slower to decide whether a system is *interesting*. And the choice to tag is taken away.....if you want to see the colour, size etc, you have to tag it. Community tagging is therefore pretty much dead... Or at least very different.


My play style is dead. No two ways about it.
I will adapt to the new way, but it doesn't change the fact my play style is dead.

On the flip side.....
At least edsm will have all the main stars now I only scan them if I found something interesting in the system (or an elw). Mostly I scan the 1st body or 1st gas giant, or just something random and move on if the system is uninteresting. With the new system this will be easy and very much more random, but at the cost of not knowing if the system would have been interesting if I could have seen it.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

No, that isn't the DD way, we must interpret (or misinterpret), speculate, and flat out guess every aspect before we actually know what is going on. Sheesh if we were smart and just waiting to see what is actually developed 75% of the posters would have nothing to say.

Lol no, people complain about people complaining whenever.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You're wrong. Cherry picking will become so much easier. The constant jump, honk, jump, just scanning the best options will become much easier, since you can still recognize the best planets by their electromagnetic signal, only now, you don't even have to fly towards them.

Many are confused by this, so I'll repeat: jump, honk, scoop, jump while cherry picking will become easier. Everyone get this? The kind of mundane boring exploration everyone is attributing to those who complain about losing the information in the system map, will not be a thing of the past, it will become more efficient, so it's not unlikely it will become more prevalent. It's also not the reason CMDRs are complaining.

*sounds of holier than thou explorers tumbling off their high horse*

I doubt it will, something like a pink or phosphorescent green gas giant is something that's only detected via the system map texture, how will the new system accelerate this process for example?

 

[Backelaer]

So the nav beacons aren't needed anymore then?
Or is this info only shared if you have an ads on board?


And there in lies the rub. We (the folks that appear to explore like I do, which is a mix of 2, 3 and 4, together at the same time) don't care about credits. Take away the credits and we'd still be out there doing our thing.


This includes relative size and colour info, right? I want to see the rich red hmc orbiting the bright green gas giant. *that's * what the system map shows today.
In future, I think this is hidden until we play sliders. It may only be 20 or 30 secs but..... 10,000 systems or more.
The hit rate isn't changing because the forge isn't changing as far as I know. So I need to filter thousands of systems to find the thing I'm looking for.
"just" colours. Uh huh. It's the aberrations that make thing interesting dude.

Only after you tune in. Again... Let's say 20 to 30 secs. Versus the current honk.
If you decide to fly there, you decide to fly there.... Both methods take the same time to fly just the new one gives you the surface map straight away (I think)



I'll have some of whatever you're smoking

I agree it will be much much faster to tag bodies in the new system. It will, however, be much much slower to decide whether a system is *interesting*. And the choice to tag is taken away.....if you want to see the colour, size etc, you have to tag it. Community tagging is therefore pretty much dead... Or at least very different.


My play style is dead. No two ways about it.
I will adapt to the new way, but it doesn't change the fact my play style is dead.

On the flip side.....
At least edsm will have all the main stars now I only scan them if I found something interesting in the system (or an elw). Mostly I scan the 1st body or 1st gas giant, or just something random and move on if the system is uninteresting. With the new system this will be easy and very much more random, but at the cost of not knowing if the system would have been interesting if I could have seen it.

Dear lord, it almost seems as though you have to adapt your playstile to all this new content that will be replacing the placeholders. My commiserations.

 

[StuartGT]

I doubt it will, something like a pink or phosphorescent green gas giant is something that's only detected via the system map texture, how will the new system accelerate this process for example?

A gas giant is only pink or phosphorous because of its composition. The new frequencies should show that to us, and if not then they should be improved to do it.

Part of FDev's goal for the new scanning techniques is that feel more"scientific" (whether or not players agree), hence the use of frequencies, waveforms, and actual audio from real planets. If the new FSS mechanics are not up to scratch, they can be improved based on our feedback during beta.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

A gas giant is only pink or phosphorous because of its composition. The new frequencies should show that to us, and if not then they should be improved to do it.

Part of FDev's goal for the new scanning techniques is that feel more"scientific" (whether or not players agree), hence the use of frequencies, waveforms, and actual audio from real planets. If the new FSS mechanics are not up to scratch, they can be improved based on our feedback during beta.

Gas giants have a very regular 73% to 26% ratio of hydrogen to helium & green gas giants aren't the exception, I don't see how such statistic would help anybody find them.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You seem to forget that even now the system map can't provide true color images by any optical means. Or in other words, the whole local map is an artificial scenery based on energy signals processed by our board computer. This process is currently invisible but will be visible in the future. It's yet to be seen if the signals can also tell us something about the chemical composition of the bodies so that you could determine their color.

I've travelled more than enough to know that the colors presented in the system map represent properly the colors of gas giants, always...

 

[Shinji Ikari]

That is not what I have said nor meant. Or what you say is in any way contradictory to what I said.

Yes it is, what we've got will tell you exactly how a gas giant will look in the chromatic sense of the word, the scale may not be precise.

If you say "represent properly" you don't seem to have any clue about how true color images of planets are made in reality.

By reality you mean RL or ED? In ED "true color" is just the color you see when physically visiting the planet, curiously this color matches exactly the color presented in the system map.

ED will soon try to come a little closer to these processes whereas what we have now is nothing but an empty placeholder, a mockery of science, that unfortunately too many players got addicted to.

If this processes you mean deducing the color via chemical makeup, I've already told you, gas giants are very consistent with their chemical makeup & it's independant on their colors in the game.

 

[Malic]

Also, another thing to think about that was only shown for a tiny bit, the sounds that everything makes, from my understanding something like one of these will make a completely different sound compared to anything else (Col 285 Sector VU-M C8-1 in the bubble if you want to test this when the beta goes live for sound compare purposes):

 

[Shinji Ikari]

With 'reality' I actually meant what 'reality' usually means: RL (which should have been quite clear from the context). But since you preferred the other version all your comments are moot and based on this misunderstanding.

In real life getting true color images is far less trivial. Most of our existent true color images of our solar system are a compound of sophisticated filter technics and not just eyeball images. That's what I meant with FD is trying to get a little closer to these real existing technics. A little more science please and that's what a lot of players seem to support. What the current Honk does is pure magic with 12 tons tinfoil on top. This nonsense would fit in a game like NMS but not in ED please.

And did I suggest to throw all the system to the recycling bin? No I did not, I suggest a compromise to avoid too much time consumption by looking (for example) to green/pink gas giants.

 

[o2thaZ]

Face it cmdr its time to git gud.
Sorry but your ideas are a joke.

 

[Mengy]

You won't be able to play Radio Planet Game and supercruise to an ELW at the same time. Why? Because Will Flanagan just informed us yesterday that when in Radio Planet Game mode, your ship is throttled to zero.

Oh that's terrible news. I hope that can be changed before going live!!!!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh that's terrible news. I hope that can be changed before going live!!!!

Yeah, it increases the downtime going from system to system. Before I only had to sit through the jump itself. Now it seems that we're going to have to sit though the charge of the FSD as well twiddling our thumbs.

I don't have Netflix. Is it expensive?