PVP/Crime Consequences required levels (Answers from PVE players please.)

[Majinvash]

The funny part is where he complains about High Waking.

I'm sure everyone is all sympathetic about the plight of the Pirate deriving glee from being a pillock in Mobius, not being able to pirate properly because of High Waking.

Swings and roundabouts.

Context Ziggy Context.

I have said how OP high waking is, not only for stopping us naughty players from being naughty.
But from stopping the goody players being goody. ( NRA FOREVER )

I am looking forward to the rage from the community when they see how underwhelming the crime and punishments systems that FD are apparently working hard on actually are, when we still just Braben Drive to Freedom at the slightest sniff of a rebuy.

Weeee, no consequences, weeeee

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Context Ziggy Context.

I have said how OP high waking is, not only for stopping us naughty players from being naughty.
But from stopping the goody players being goody. ( NRA FOREVER )

Yes, I know you said that. I was also not born yesterday and I recognize a cop-out when I see one.

No! bad cynical Ziggy! Majinvash really cares about goody players being goody. He's not just saying that because it aligns with his own pet peeve.

I'm sorry I doubted you M-vash [heart]

Weeee, no consequences, weeeee

Said Majinvash after he shot some CMDRs in Mobius without consequences. [noob]

 

[Majinvash]

Yes, I know you said that. I was also not born yesterday and I recognize a cop-out when I see one.

No! bad cynical Ziggy! Majinvash really cares about goody players being goody. He's not just saying that because it aligns with his own pet peeve.

I'm sorry I doubted you M-vash [heart]

Said Majinvash after he shot some CMDRs in Mobius without consequences. [noob]

I feel you are trying to grief my thread, please stop.

I mean, sure nothing happened to me after Mobius fun times and never will.
I always do everything within the current rules and mechanics of the game.
You might say I am a pillar of the community.

Whether you believe me or not, I want MORE consequences.
I am bored of how easy this game is, I would love to feel challenged again.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Achilles7]

Yes, I know you said that. I was also not born yesterday and I recognize a cop-out when I see one.

No! bad cynical Ziggy! Majinvash really cares about goody players being goody. He's not just saying that because it aligns with his own pet peeve.

I'm sorry I doubted you M-vash [heart]

Said Majinvash after he shot some CMDRs in Mobius without consequences. [noob]

Leave Madge alone!..how dare you insinuate that he is an expedient, dismal, deluded, disingenuous, dogmatic dork! Hmm, maybe I've inferred too much into your words there, Zippy! However, if my deductive powers are a little off..my alliterative skills surely are not in question!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Leave Madge alone![...] Hmm, maybe I've inferred too much into your words there, Zippy! However, if my deductive powers are a little off..my alliterative skills surely are not in question!

Rep for using 'alliterative' in a sentence.

But already stopped participating.

I feel you are trying to grief my thread, please stop.

He used the magic word see. I am powerless not to comply.

Cheers,

Zippy, the bush kangaroo.

 

[Majinvash]

Leave Madge alone!..how dare you insinuate that he is an expedient, dismal, deluded, disingenuous, dogmatic dork! Hmm, maybe I've inferred too much into your words there, Zippy! However, if my deductive powers are a little off..my alliterative skills surely are not in question!

*Thread Derailed*

expedient - Totally
dismal - I think generally my posts are quite chipper
deluded - Ironically I think that about half the posters.
disingenuous - Where have I lied about anything I have posted?. You might not like it, but its honest. I have certainly stated my intentions.
dogmatic - A fine word and again I refer to my posts being truthful.
dork - *MEOW*
dashing - Why thank you
dangerous - My forum rank seems to agree
dazzling - I did brush my teeth after lunch today
deadly - Soon TM
desired - Aww Ziggy, knows
devilish - oh tee hee

Can we get back on track please, there is some great stuff in this thead.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Marcns007]

I think from the stats FD know what peoples playing styles are?

I really think the PVP community is only 20% of the player base (That's a guess).

So why are 80% having to put up with the 20% forcing them into their playing style?

The 80% need counter measures if the game cannot cope with law enforcement.

As a quick fix, the majority should be able to carry a use once flash bomb (flashbang) to get out of the system [woah]

 

[Alanpurus]

There's no answer to Maj's hubris and anti-social behaviour, short of winging up about 20 CMDRs and going and kicking his smug     . But that's what he wants, of course. So in true PvE style, I'd like to make him suffer boredom and frustration by depriving him of my time and credits by not showing up.

 

[Mohrgan]

There's no answer to Maj's hubris and anti-social behaviour, short of winging up about 20 CMDRs and going and kicking his smug     . But that's what he wants, of course. So in true PvE style, I'd like to make him suffer boredom and frustration by depriving him of my time and credits by not showing up.

Obviously, this is the best answer to the voice, and open in general. Let it rot. We don't need it to enjoy Elite, no one does. That is quite apparent by now. For open to be viable, even the players there feel, it needs to be incentivized. As far as I can see, open just isn't worth the effort a C/P rework would take. Just leave things as they are, and put the effort into playable content.

 

[Vandaahl]

Except it's nearly impossible to kill a good player who doesn't want to die.

Isn't it time to re-read this a couple of times, and to draw yourself a conclusion? Because this will prolly never change...

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Whether you believe me or not, I want MORE consequences.
I am bored of how easy this game is, I would love to feel challenged again.

Patience my pirating, murderous pilot ... FD are visiting the C&P part of ED so here's hoping they flex their muscles and show teeth.

Plus, as a bonus, SJA has popped into a thread or two to say more AI improvements are on their way.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Isn't it time to re-read this a couple of times, and to draw yourself a conclusion? Because this will prolly never change...

Perhaps ... but at the moment there is nothing stopping him from going into ANY system, deliberately staying there for hours on end, murdering everything in sight. He even said that around CG hotspots he's been there for hours farming people with little to no resistance. That's not the "vision" I signed up for in ED.

Never mind the police, where's the Navy as this is a very dangerous pilot ? Where are all the (NPC) bounty hunters looking to bag this juicy target ? Where are the heavy ships with killer load outs reserved for such criminals ?

A simple thing of beefing up the games response will mean if he comes to a system he might be able to murder one or two people before being forced to flee. Sure, he might not be killed in the process (good player) and you're right in that might not change any time soon, but having to think about your next action is better than face-rolling the keyboard whilst seal clubbing.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There's a PvP league going on. Quite entertaining, even for an explorer like me. So if you want a challenge against skilled pilots ... seems the obvious place to flex them skills

 

[EUS]

There's a PvP league going on. Quite entertaining, even for an explorer like me. So if you want a challenge against skilled pilots ... seems the obvious place to flex them skills

Oh, of course, CQC.
*Ducks*

 

[Vandaahl]

There's a PvP league going on. Quite entertaining, even for an explorer like me. So if you want a challenge against skilled pilots ... seems the obvious place to flex them skills

They made CQC for that as well, but thats not what he wants. He wants to be an e-thug. Its in the previous line I quoted as well, he can't kill a player that does not want to die. I assume he does not want to kill players that do want to die, so what is left is he wants to kill players who do not want to die.

Every mechanism you come up with to get people to open will just be a substitute for being submissive fodder. If it will boil down to "If I sing you a song, can I kill you?", than the Voice of Open will be bored again in no time. Pun intended.

As long as this game is build upon a p2p foundation and as long as there are different game modes, this game will never be VoO's game, in my opinion of course.

 

[terrycloth]

Problem is that unless they straight up buff all trade ships to incredible levels of standard hull tanking, the traders would still use the space for extra cargo.
This is the reason why indirectly the Cutter is the best trade ship.
They had to build it with HUGE amounts of internal slots, so that it could carry huge SCB's.
I think that trade ships should have much much larger internal capacity and be a huge problem to stop. Like trying to slow down an oil tanker.
Sadly if you make them too tanky, then every trade ship would just highwake out and then you have another problem.
Currently its nearly impossible to pirate a Open spec Trade conda in the time between, submit and highwake to freedom.

Maybe the FSD drive needs to be a lot easier to destroy, and then takes a super-long time to charge up while 'destroyed'. Then you can give traders a bazillion hit points (combine Cargo Rack and HRP functionality?) and make it *tedious* to kill them.

Also, escorts could actually protect them then instead of getting to sit and watch while they go down in 6 seconds.

 

[dxm55]

It's also quite bad that you can be in silent running while firing weapons. Weapons fire is a very energetic phenomenon, especially with high powered energy weapons and things like railguns. Silent running is fine for smuggling, but anyone firing weapons should be easy to pick up on sensors.

So firing weaps does not raise your sig high enough to break SR?
It should, and after firing, there should be some kind of timer before your sig goes down again. To simulate the heat or energy dissipation.

IMO SCB could be rolled back to not over heat the ship to insane levels and HRP tanking could both be fixed by simply allowing only ONE of any one of these items. You still get to decide the class size but you only get one of any SCB and HRP. You only get one shield. Why not also limit SCB and HRP to one of each. That would kill the tanking meta and allow everyone to make choices about play styles, and maybe even make the Lakon trade ships a viable choice again.

Limiting SCB and HRP to only one might also help the crime and punishment issue if traders and explorers can fight back.

That's an idea. Simply change HRP to "Armor plating" and limit it to one per ship, and that should reduce the type of ganker-tanker setups you see in PVP ships.
So the pilot will have to decide which slot he wants to use. The larger one for more protection at the expense of cargo/other equipment, or the smaller one.

I reckon we will stop seeing Cobras with more hull than a stock Anaconda.

And yes, fix the HRP/Armor protection for individual modules. It's quite broken.


Ships' stats should be more realistic and on a more level playing field according to their mass/size. Fix the HRP stacking, and gankers will be a little bit easier to counter with a little help.

 

[Sandmann]

There's a PvP league going on. Quite entertaining, even for an explorer like me. So if you want a challenge against skilled pilots ... seems the obvious place to flex them skills

Yeah that's not what he wants though. Fish... barrel...

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

In real life, you might be tempted to befriend or help those who are insecure or just mentally less strong but in a game, you don't really have the mechanic for it. Given that the kind of people being discussed only want to inconvenience you and nothing more, there is nothing the crime and punishment tweaks can do rather than slow them down a bit.

In order to stop it,if that is what is wanted, you need to remove the ability to inconvenience people. If for example, when destroyed by a player, you popped back into existence with nothing lost, maybe 200 LS away, I'd wager threads like this would be gone.

The grown up PvP'ers such as those playing the league could still do it and the people who believe they are role playing a psycho could still do that, it's just that they won't because they, as mentioned, only want to inconvenience you.

Pirates would need a different kind of threat of course, perhaps the interdiction mini game could, for pirates, allow them to grab all you cargo if you lost.

I'm not saying I'd like this, but it's the only way I can see these threads going away.

 

[vulkman]

A beautiful but flawed system.

If you make it too hard to work out who is human, how would the nice players be able to be all friendly and cooperative?
Transponders we would just scan for.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Easy: Make NPCs respond to hails, as they do in pretty much every other space-sim, so nice players have an incentive to try and be all the happier if an actual person responds.

 

[ronnie-kane]

@Majinvash I think you'd know best what the environment could do to make this challenging for you. Overwhelming system authority numbers? Jump restrictions in systems where you're public enemy number one? I dunno - you tell us.

As to getting people into Open. I'll try to keep to facts.
Some people just wanna play on their own, which is fine. Sometimes I go solo because I want to be left alone. There's no changing that when I'm in that mood.

That said, I also like to play in Open. I do hop back to solo sometimes, and here's why:
1. I've got back to my faction capital and found it crawling with enemies. That's not really fitting with lore or design - a gang of four players should not be able to take over a whole system in this way. I also suspect they'd have more challenge if they had to be more aware of the environment they were in.
2. I've found a wing that I can't beat. If none of my friends are online and I can't possibly take them on my own then I'll skip to solo. I don't want my game to require that I have friends online to get to certain places.
3. An area (CG most likely) is known to be full of PvPers who will destroy any target before an authority or friendly CMDR can respond.

There aren't many reasons there.

Things that would address these concerns for me:
1. Stronger System Authority. It really shouldn't be any other way in secure systems, as is well known by players and FD. I'll leave that there.
2. NPC wingmates? As a mechant I'd gladly pay for an escort. It's just not a thing in game.
3. Kinda the hard one to address. I'd like to be able to see CMDRs or NPC police detect the interdiction and come to help (or join in the piracy if they want). I'd like more confidence that I'm being pirated and not just blown away with no idea why. It needs more flavour than just dying, and it needs more potential outcomes than just dying. IF nothing else the variety would be cool


On a brief broader note, the challenge needs to be the same in both environments and they need to be connected. Increased pirate activity in any play mode should result in more NPC pirates in all modes. Similar for peacekeepers, traders and bounty hunters.

Hope that helps answer your question.