PvP Flag in Open Play for NOPVP players.

By the way you would not BELIEVE how many PM's I get from other players who agree with me, but have literally been frightened into silence after being bullied by the pro-gank community on these forums.

I will not be bullied. If I want to play in Open with a no-gank flag set, that's my prerogative and it imposes absolutely zero negative externalities on another player. None.
 
There's absolutely nothing tying me to those "sides". There's zero mechanisms tying the player commander to the NPC factions. I can fly to any system I want, and join any "side" willy nilly back and forth. There's no storyline. There's no deeper character progression. There's nothing there.
I mean, there literally are things tying you to those sides - namely the pledge system in both CZs and Powerplay.

Beyond that a large number of players do consider that "there is something there" insofar as they work for the benefit of their chosen faction, in many cases factions they designed and petitioned Fdev to add. Whether or not the systems are particularly strong doesn't change the fact that this is how many people engage with the game. Again, it seems pretty biased and dismissive of you to write these people off.

I have offered to compromise on this over and over again.

When?

You will not.

I have repeatedly said that I understand people who don't want to engage in PvP, that I'm happy Mobius exists as an option for them, that I wish the game were better balanced so it suited more people more of the time. I also said I acknowledge and understand the desire to fly in a safe but populated space.

Negative repercussions?

Yes, the ones I've laboriously gone over in like, a dozen posts now.

Starshot_Jigawatts, I genuinely hope that you enjoy your time playing Elite and I would never demand that you subject yourself to being blown up by me if you don't want to. I hope you will do others the same courtesy and acknowedge that different playstyles exist, and that different opinions are valid as regards the value of Open play, the value of stakes and the value of the shared systems.
 
If I want to play in Open with a no-gank flag set, that's my prerogative and it imposes absolutely zero negative externalities on another player. None.
That's not your prerogative because such a feature doesn't exist.

If such a feature did exist it would have some negative externalities for players with other preferences. Please read my first post in this thread, and then all following posts.
 
That's not your prerogative because such a feature doesn't exist.

If such a feature did exist it would have some negative externalities for players with other preferences. Please read my first post in this thread, and then all following posts.
Well I have decided that I will advocate, constantly, for such a feature every time this topic comes up. Until the time such a thing, or some other compromise exists. That's why this forum exists right?

EVERY. OTHER. GAME on Earth has figured it out. I'm sure Frontier can too....
 
Then what's your problem with me?
My problem is limited to how you're engaging with the topic, not your preference for not being pvp'd at. I don't want to shoot you if you don't want to be shot, please understand that.

But here we arrive at a point where pretty much everything I have to say about the topic I've said in one or other reply.... and I know this is going to make you angry, I am sorry for this, but you simply aren't engaging with the opposing viewpoints here (or rather, you were for a bit, but now you've gone back to angrily posting your initial point). We're both just repeating ourselves so let's just drop it.

Have a good day and enjoy space.
 
This topic has been discussed to death, sure, but FDev hasn’t really acknowledged the issue properly. Crime and punishment should see appropriate focus, or just accept it sucks and implement open pve.

Because of this, these threads will continue, as they are the only way to let FDev know that some people still want this as a feature.
 
My problem is limited to how you're engaging with the topic, not your preference for not being pvp'd at. I don't want to shoot you if you don't want to be shot, please understand that.

But here we arrive at a point where pretty much everything I have to say about the topic I've said in one or other reply.... and I know this is going to make you angry, I am sorry for this, but you simply aren't engaging with the opposing viewpoints here (or rather, you were for a bit, but now you've gone back to angrily posting your initial point). We're both just repeating ourselves so let's just drop it.

Have a good day and enjoy space.
I'm not angry at you at all, and I know you aren't a ganker.

But you seem to be not getting that for PVE players like me, we simply don't view ganking to be a legitimate playstyle. And it's certainly not something we get all twisted up about preserving. Do you even get you're defending GRIEFING??? You may not think it's griefing, but it is. Flat out.

I have even offered a compromise, like many do, where ganking is allowed in certain system states (Anarchy etc etc). But you continue to paint me as this angry inflexible brute on this topic. You've even accused me and the OP for wanting "god mode". Where do you get off acting like you're now suddenly so above it all and I'm the bad guy??
 
This topic has been discussed to death, sure, but FDev hasn’t really acknowledged the issue properly. Crime and punishment should see appropriate focus, or just accept it sucks and implement open pve.

Because of this, these threads will continue, as they are the only way to let FDev know that some people still want this as a feature.

No man don't you understand? They can't make any changes because a tiny subset of the community who enjoys griefing other players, might not like it.
 
Against my better judgement I'm still here.
we simply don't view ganking to be a legitimate playstyle. And it's certainly not something we get all twisted up about preserving. Do you even get you're defending GRIEFING??? You may not think it's griefing, but it is. Flat out.
No it isn't. As I have stated many, many times in this thread alone there are legitimate and systemic reasons for PvP. Not all PvP is griefing, and to suggest otherwise is not a matter of a differing opinion, you're literally wrong. Once again you're also dismissing the players who enjoy evading danger even if they aren't directly fighting, such players do exist - I know many of them, including many who would categorise themselves as PvE-centric players - they still play in Open for the bants. You can't wish whole groups of Elite player out of existence with the sheer force of your own personal ire, or choose to act as a representative for a multifaceted group yourself. I am sorry.

You've even accused me and the OP for wanting "god mode"
Yes, because that's what a no-player-damage flag in Open play would be, effectively, and that is the root of most people's issue with this as a solution.

The Mobius solution is one which seems like a pretty reasonable compromise between how you want to play Elite and how I want to play Elite. I will not force my way into Mobius so I can 'get my jollies by shooting unwilling participants', but by the same margin it would be neat if you didn't demand the removal of stakes and immersion from the mode I'm playing. This way we both get at least an approximation of what we want, and can join hands in loving Braben in the springtime.
 
If it is such a tiny subset, how is it such a massive problem?
Okay you know how someone says that there's this awesome restaurant you just have to try, and when you do something goes wrong with your meal - just plain bad luck for you - but it forever taints your view of the place? Even IF it's the best restaurant on Earth, you never quite see it the same way because of that one bad experience.

That's what ganking does in games to people who don't want to be ganked. It totally ruins ones enjoyment of the game. You never get that taste out of your mouth. Getting ganked in a new game also causes some people to 'rage quit' that game, never to return. So one bad apple can have a HUGE negative impact on a game.

Also you can gank to your hearts content in this game and there's nothing to stop you. So on any given day, a single ganker can ruin the game for multiple other players.
 
No it isn't. As I have stated many, many times in this thread alone there are legitimate and systemic reasons for PvP. Not all PvP is griefing,
I never said all PVP was griefing. I said ganking was griefing. You can't have players VERSUS player, truly, when one player doesn't want to partake in it. You get that right? Doesn't seem like you do...

If you don't agree, well no wonder we are where we are on this thread. Because neither of us can possibly compromise on this if we can't agree on what the terms and meaning of words are.
 
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My proposal is to introduce a PVP / NoPVP FLAG in open play (with strong limitation of change to avoid exploiting). The reason behind this is that some player (like myself) play very small amounts of time due to personal matters and doesn't like to be blown-up by overpowered player pirates literally wasting precious hours of in-game time which translate in weeks of real life (people with families play few few time).
A PvP flag is not going to happen, but if you block these gankers, you'll eventually end up with the equivalent to a PvP flag using the tools already in the game. :D
 
Okay you know how someone says that there's this awesome restaurant you just have to try, and when you do something goes wrong with your meal - just plain bad luck for you - but it forever taints your view of the place? Even IF it's the best restaurant on Earth, you never quite see it the same way because of that one bad experience.

That's what ganking does in games to people who don't want to be ganked. It totally ruins ones enjoyment of the game. You never get that taste out of your mouth. Getting ganked in a new game also causes some people to 'rage quit' that game, never to return. So one bad apple can have a HUGE negative impact on a game.

Also you can gank to your hearts content in this game and there's nothing to stop you. So on any given day, a single ganker can ruin the game for multiple other players.
Ok and just for the record, how do you personally define ganking. What does that word mean to you?
 
A PvP flag is not going to happen, but if you block these gankers, you'll eventually end up with the equivalent to a PvP flag using the tools already in the game. :D
You'll never block them all and these people would go to such extremes to get their fix as to make new accounts, change their names, etc etc etc.

Blocking is a clunky cludge fix for something FDEV needs to step in and upgrade this game into the 21'st century themselves for.
 
But you seem to be not getting that for PVE players like me, we simply don't view ganking to be a legitimate playstyle. And it's certainly not something we get all twisted up about preserving. Do you even get you're defending GRIEFING??? You may not think it's griefing, but it is. Flat out.
So you want to tell people how to play because you feel like gankers tell you how to play? Elite is a sandbox. Anything is a legitimate playstyle. If you want to mess up someone else's day, thats great. If they don't want their day messed up, there are ways to do so before you log in, and in game. Cherrypicking encounters makes BGS (something the majority of squadrons participate in) almost certainly pseudo-solo only! If everyone can pick between player interdictions and NPC interdictions, NPCs will be chosen no contest. If NPCs are still total useless toothless vipers and anacondas, there is no risk to open, and all the benefit of being able to do it while thumbing your nose at your opponent. How is this a healthy choice for direct competition in modes such as powerplay or similar by making haulers (vulnerable targets that should be destructible as a way to prevent your enemies from scoring). Lets put this in perspective with sports. Take football (American football) as an example. Lets say you aren't allowed to do anything to the other team as they throw and run down the field with the ball. The only way you can actually stop them from scoring is if they mess up themselves. Without PvP gameplay, there is 0 threat in open or even the Opt in pvp mode.
By the way you would not BELIEVE how many PM's I get from other players who agree with me
Yeah I don't believe. Sounds like a combination of anecdotal evidence and general unreliability of that statement.
How is that silly? You're grinding on some Spec Ops in a CZ and some d-bag CMDR starts trying to gank you.
I would think that combat between opposite sides in combat zones is legitimate gameplay. Similarly, its not a gank if its about the juicy combat bond that comes attached to pvp kills in combat zones (10% of rebuy is nothing to sneeze at, especially when they're in a corvette).
There's absolutely nothing tying me to those "sides". There's zero mechanisms tying the player commander to the NPC factions. I can fly to any system I want, and join any "side" willy nilly back and forth. There's no storyline. There's no deeper character progression. There's nothing there.
I mean you get to advance your PMF's agenda, or give your power more favorable systems through BGS. That's a motive and mechanism in and of itself. Similarly, I get tired of posts saying "there's no story! elite boring!". Thats because the majority of elite's story has to come from the player. At the end of the day, you need to justify your own actions, while also discovering bits of the galactic story unfolding. The information and galnet stuff is a framework for you to build your own story, so if you think its not deep or character progressive to team up with a side and be loyal, as opposed to swapping left and right, good on you.

In short, Im against this invulnerability as it makes legitimate targets for piracy and powerplay be able to gain the benefits of open without the risks. If Open (a mode with many times more players than Mobius) has to bow to the whims of a vocal minority, I don't think that's healthy to the game or community as a whole. What's next? Miners leveraging their newfound power to whine loudly to demand a station with permanent high demand for Vopals, Musgravite, LTD, and stuff? Traders demanding they get G5 mats per ton of cargo delivered? Point is, this just seems absurd to make opt-in pvp mode (open), have a further opt-in step. I think it should be all or nothing. Everyone or no one. If you think the good isnt worth the bad, you don't have to opt in at the menu screen.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk
 
You'll never block them all and these people would go to such extremes to get their fix as to make new accounts, change their names, etc etc etc.

Blocking is a clunky cludge fix for something FDEV needs to step in and upgrade this game into the 21'st century themselves for.
Well if that's your view of Open (which is way more dystopian than my personal experience), then there's always private group or solo. Even a PvP flag wouldn't stop your mega-griefers from griefing. They can hog pads at outposts, block the mailslot to a station as you're trying to leave, just constantly fly in front of you spewing chaff in your face, say nasty things to you in chat, steal all your fragments while you mine (though I call that clever piracy, not griefing), etc. Even in PvE you need a block function.

Anyway, I gave the OP a solution he can start implementing today. The other two options are Solo and Private group. If he waits around for the PvP flag, he might as well play Space Engineers, cause that's a long wait for a train don't come.
 
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