PvP PvP in ED is inconvenient, irrelevant and passively discouraged by Fdev... why? It should be the true end-game content

Lateralus

L
So yeah, somewhat dead-horse topic incoming... what do Fdev have against main-game PvP?

PvP is huge in online gaming these days, and I don't think it's going to get less big going forward. I have always struggled to understand why Fdev choose to make it so inaccessible and inconsequential considering it's massive potential. Is this some kind of culture problem with Fdev? Do they view PvP as an undesirable activity? Does it give them too many flash-points to firefight? Do they not view the PvP community with much affection? Do they not see any financial value in it?

Whatever the reason they seem to do whatever they can to drive this part of the community away via lack of new features, lack of balance passes, disregard when it comes to complaints or suggestions or U-turning on previous future plans (Open Powerplay, Icarus Cup etc).

To be fair, the flight model and modular approach to ship building lends itself extremely well to PvP - hence why it has become very popular with a niche of the community despite it's glaring problems. The skill curve is also very steep, so it takes a lot of time to master... which is perfect for a competitive gaming community and encourages people interested in it to spend A LOT of time on it. The flight model is also perfect for it, so far superior to competitors like Star Citizen.

Possible Solution (No PvEer's need be harmed :p )

As a minimum, I feel like an expansion to the scope of CQC is needed desperately to bring back the large numbers of PvP players who have quit the game out of pure frustration, not to mention new players who would be interested in it if it were better supported by Fdev.

Here's an old post I made listing out possible enhancements for CQC to make it a main ship PvP duelling system: CQC Duel Mode

As a TL;DR from this CQC post above, the main changes that would make PvP/CQC take off in ED are:
  1. No grind - make all ship configurations (engineered/ guardian /tech broker) available to everyone immediately - this is the single thing that keeps people away from PvP the most because it takes literally weeks of in-game time (from new player stock-sidewinder) to make a viable PvP ship, crazy 🥴 - Note: this is a slight change from my original suggestion in the thread - no grind is better than own ships
  2. Allow players to set a few match options before hand (no engineering, no premium, small/medium/large ships only etc)
  3. Have ranked and unranked fights for league table purposes or just practice with friends (individual leagues and squadron leagues)
  4. Credit and material rewards for ranked match wins (anything fun that reduces grind in the main game is a good thing right?)
  5. Unlike the main game, all matches are to the death, nobody runs away because no FSDs :p
  6. Nobody has to worry about rebuys, and the said grind to keep their rebuy balance up
  7. This would be a perfect game format for platforms like Twitch, where events could be broadcast - so a spectator option would be very useful
  8. It would eliminate most of the problems PvPers encounter with instancing as the instances are dedicated to the players in the session, not dynamic
In terms of development resource, I feel this would be a somewhat easy win relatively speaking - the CQC platform already exists, it just needs expanding to more than just 2000's style fighter death-matches which don't reflect the type of PvP found in the main game. It would also encourage people into PvP who would usually not touch it because of the rebuys and loss of grind time etc

Maybe one day eh? Sadly I'm not hopeful though :(
 
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Dragsham

Dragsham
PvP in-game needs a whole rebuild.
And that's why they don't. No time nor inclination.
Odyssey might have some new PvP content.
Not that they specifically mentioned anything.
The relog, block etc all need addressing.
And a simple way to go somewhere towards a happy medium, would be to make it worthwhile to actually DO PvP. Not talking rewards or modules etc, more rank, prestige, permanent noterity.
CqC overhaul long overdue.
Making PvP relevant isn't going to be easy.
And without countermeasures it simply won't work.
 
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CMDR Cknarf

CMDR Cknarf
I'd be happy with some balance changes, and a more stable game. Nothing like preparing to drop into a ten person battle, just to get [COLOR, SNAKE].

The flight model is one of the PvP community's biggest concerns right now. Hopefully any tweaks to the flight model for atmospheric flight don't affect what we currently experience in open space. The current flight model is fantastic, and part of the only reason I still play.

I wouldn't mind an arena mode using player owned ships, or even a setup like you suggest, where ships can be tweaked at no cost.

Credit+material rewards would be nice, even if it was just for CQC as it stands today.

As for the main game grind-- let us buy materials already. I can buy gold by the ton, but I can't buy Iron. Makes sense.
 

SergMx

SergMx
Who said it was the final content. Those who played Elite and the Frontier know that the final point of the game is the achievement of the rank of Elite.
You can get 3 Elites in the game and not leave the single game.
 

Lateralus

L
SergMx said:
Who said it was the final content. Those who played Elite and the Frontier know that the final point of the game is the achievement of the rank of Elite.
You can get 3 Elites in the game and not leave the single game.
Click to expand...

If your gameplay is grinding out ranks for some kind of pat on the head from Fdev then fine... but for a lot of people that is hollow and uninteresting. Hence all the complaints about Elite's content that have been levelled against it over the last 6 years.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Sir Ganksalot said:
I already know the answer to this is gonna be something, something, only a few players take part in PvP, something, something, it was never meant to be a PvP game.

Even though PvP in Elite is amazing and the reason no one does it is because there's no associated content.
Click to expand...

What makes me sad inside is that via Open Powerplay you'd have a strategic version of Star Wars Squadrons two years ago.

You'd also have had CQC updated which would be a decent and fun arena shooter too.

Maybe they will get it right with EDOs 'Sphere of Combat' and give us a Theater of War like feature?
 

Fuego Estelar

Fuego Estelar
Rubbernuke said:
What makes me sad inside is that via Open Powerplay you'd have a strategic version of Star Wars Squadrons two years ago.

You'd also have had CQC updated which would be a decent and fun arena shooter too.

Maybe they will get it right with EDOs 'Sphere of Combat' and give us a Theater of War like feature?
Click to expand...

I remember when 2 years ago FDEV suggested that MAYBE they would make PP open only... and then the forum was flooded with crying people, and then FDEV did not do it finally.

It was a total pity
 

Koben

Koben
If they only give CQC a deserved overhaul, we wouldn't be wasting too much time debating open only, PvP exclusive servers and so on...

I do like the idea of CQC very much so. Unfortunatelly to have better odds it requires a LOT of XP in order to unlock better ships/loadouts... so, yeah... here we are still discussing PvP.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Fuego Estelar said:
I remember when 2 years ago FDEV suggested that MAYBE they would make PP open only... and then the forum was flooded with crying people, and then FDEV did not do it finally.

It was a total pity
Click to expand...

The problem was, the forum was not flooded with crying people. There was a hell of a lot more (I mean a 60 / 30 split with about 10% going whatevs) really enthusiastic about it while you had most opposition afraid FD were going to do it across the board (the 'slippery slopers').

Have a look: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/

EDO would be a perfect time for it, since what the 'Sphere of Combat' requires solid networking mixing up foot, SRV scale and ships. Having that expand out to a galactic scale would fit right in, as well as run parallel to a multi mode BGS.
 

ethelred

ethelred
It's not even been hinted at so it won't happen, but an overhaul of PP to add PvP content would seem to be a no brainer to me.

I'm a KS backer, class of 84er and LEP holder and whilst I'm nostalgic for the original and Frontier II it is not the 1980s or 1990s any more.

I respect the past but am not beholden to it.

Adding a strategic PvP layer to Elite would be a license to print money.
 

Deleted member 192138

D
Opinions on the forum are stilted as a result of the moderation style curating and favouring a specific section of the community whilst the rest prefer to use their separate Discords, YouTube/Twitch communities, Reddit, Facebook and whatever else to keep in touch. There's no point in using the forums for sustained communication when most people feel they're ignored, not taken seriously or shut down. Sometimes people come out the woodwork for a specific thread but most people I spend time around avoid the forums like the plague because it's an echo chamber.

Personally, instead of PvP being entrenched or enshrined as end game content, I'd much rather it was opened up and made more accessible. If someone wants to get into PvP, especially if they want to get the game for PvP, I find it really hard to recommend. 100+ hours of engineer unlocks and mat grinds to be able to have a competitive ship is not a good time investment unless someone is already at end game and has most of it done already by coincidence. I want PvP to be about developing skill against one another, not competing to waste more time to get a ship ready with options to play around with.
 
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Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
ethelred said:
It's not even been hinted at so it won't happen, but an overhaul of PP to add PvP content would seem to be a no brainer to me.

I'm a KS backer, class of 84er and LEP holder and whilst I'm nostalgic for the original and Frontier II it is not the 1980s or 1990s any more.

I respect the past but am not beholden to it.

Adding a strategic PvP layer to Elite would be a license to print money.
Click to expand...

This is what I find so crazy- ED is so, so SO compartmentalized enacting what they suggested would not impact the game at large.
 
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