PvP (Open) commanders not welcome on this forum?...

[Windscreen Smudge]

Are they really "pirates" if they don't have hatchbreakers ?

If you're a really good aim and can anticipate the other player and if you're able to shoot out the hatch and if you're careful then maybe, but that's a lot of if's

Or you could just pressure them with superior firepower, and if the trader rationalizes their situation, they'll concede to the demands because it's cheaper to drop the cargo.

Why don't you try shooting the cargo hatch on an Engineered clipper that's legging it?

 

[Sole Hunter]

I think the main problem is the vast minority have spoiled it for the majority. I played exclusively in open all last week, said hello to every player I encountered and got no replies. I think I totalled 20+ hours of game time. I saw well over 30 players in that time.

Yesterday I had a player interdict me while arriving at an engineers site. I had no cargo. He didn't speak/type or anything just rammed my ship with his Anaconda ( I was stationary) then shot me up reducing my shields to 0 and the hull down to just about flying then just left, I got precisely no shots off. I tracked him on the scanner and saw his ship head directly to another player, saw the tell tail interdiction signs and then later the same again, each time the other ship reappeared on the scanner.

So I think it was quite safe to say (after scanning said ships and seeing hull integrity) that this was his or hers bag.

I've been interdicted by players a far few times but usually it goes all role play and we have a chat exchange cargo or laser fire and go our separate ways, one or both....

One time I was interdicted and not doing so well against the other player, and a second ship arrived I thought my goose was cooked until he opened up on the other guy. Killed him and just said "on your cmdr" and left.

The only reason I survived as long as I did was down to 5A rated shields and A rated boosters.

What I'm trying to say is not all open PVP players are bad just the ones who are spoil it for the others both PVP and PVE alike.

I think this is precisely why there are game modes like Möbius. I doubt you'd see one just for player PVP ganking, they'd all run out of money too quickly.

See this is the problem with you and others on these forums. You need to accept that "Blaze your own trail" = anything can happen in Open. Anyone can start shooting you indiscriminately for absolutely no reason if they wish to do so, call it being a villain, jerk, scum or terrorist. It's all irrelevant, the point is, in this large universe there's bad people.

Now I agree with you that the game has no system in place to harshly punish and impose fines on those who commit such terrible crimes may seem unfair. Blame frontier for that, not the PVP community or those who engage in these activities.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Blame frontier for that, not the PVP community or those who engage in these activities.

He's not blaming the PvP community.

edit: He's explicitly not blaming the PvP community.

 

[Riverside]

By people who regularly frequent the forums? Yeah, pirates get recognition.

I suggest reading a bit into those "I quit because gankers" posts though.

The entire time you've got the trader under fire, they've got the option to surrender, stop and dump some cargo. Not every ship used for Piracy can fit hatchbreakers.

If you are sending short, easy to read messages throughout I'd completely agree. If you interdict me successfully I will definitely run, if you open fire I will not stop, but if it looks like I will lose my ship & you send me a simple choice like we will stop firing if you stop running I will definitely consider it.

I'll also happily talk weapons stowed but will be wary of the sneaky pirate, while being sneaky myself.

I think it's of utmost importance that the genuine Pirate do everything they can to differentiate themselves from the PKers.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Why don't you try shooting the cargo hatch on an Engineered clipper that's legging it?

Perhaps a dumb Q here that's slightly off topic - If you're chasing someone whose shields are down, engineered or not, can hatch breakers keep up and do their job ?

If you can outrun them then fail IMO ... but that maybe a topic for another day.

Regardless, IMO, a pirate is someone who uses a cargo scanner and hatch breakers .. if you need a tooled up combat ship you might be picking on the wrong prey ?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Perhaps a dumb Q here that's slightly off topic - If you're chasing someone whose shields are down, engineered or not, can hatch breakers keep up and do their job ?

If you can outrun them then fail IMO ... but that maybe a topic for another day.

Regardless, IMO, a pirate is someone who uses a cargo scanner and hatch breakers .. if you need a tooled up combat ship you might be picking on the wrong prey ?

I used to get a lot of hatch breakers just flying in circles around a ship that was taking evasive maneuvers. That was quite a while ago though, not sure if they've been improved.

 

[xondk]

No, I'm saying respect work both way and if you don't respect your community don't expect them to respect you in return. Respect is earned, period.

Also some of the context in the first paragraph may be confusing for some players here. I was talking about one of their community manager who I shall not name disrespecting members of the CODE before a livestream. I just think it's funny to see a dev post on the forums and try to educate us on "respect & rules" when their own moderators & devs don't abide and/or break these very own rules.

I just think it's an amusing coincidance considering we have 52 pages of bashing on PVP players.

I am unsure what you think is respect.
Because it seems like the reddit thread post indicates, that you seem to see 'not' show people respect as default, and if you do not show people respect then I do not see how it is surprising that they do not show you respect either?

Last I checked if it is the post I think it is, said comment by dev was well appropriate to the situation, the problem again being that your 'default' setting apparently 'not' showing people respect, then saying respect is earned?
To me, the default setting I treat people with is show polite respect, by default I am open and generally polite towards people, because I have no reason not to.
Course if your idea of respect is being open and polite to people, then that might be the issue.
To me respect is when you do 'more' then what is consider normal open and general polite behaviour, you go out of your way to do something for people because you believe they deserve it, what, naturally is depending on culture.
Disrespect is what you show when people have taken your normal behaviour and disrespected it, in one way or another. But this can at least on surface seem the 'normal' behaviour online sometimes? Treating people not as people, but instead treating them as just some thing in your way, something preventing you from doing what you want?

I've played games where I've been good, evil, whatever, and evil when I was playing a person that objectively was pure evil murdering and causing chaos, it never became a problem, in fact i was often contacted outside the game or via other channels being praised for it, for being a scary , but despite that it had been a great experience even for my victims.

Now, some may say, "But I don't want to role play", to which I have to say, the moment you assume a role that you are not irl, you are role playing, to what degree is entirely up to you, but you are. If you claim you are not role playing, you are basically saying "hey what I am doing right now is not motivated by wanting to do something in game, but rather because I just felt like being a jerk today and am taking it out in a situation where there are no consequences."
In which case, how is it a surprise people react as they do?

Frontier has some of the best support and dev communication I've seen through all the games I've played. They are friendly, helpful and very lenient, but here's the thing, unlike how I've seen other devs/supports, they are only lenient to a point, where others have been so lenient they allow people do keep doing stuff that is harming the community as a whole, and that is in my book being both unfriendly and unhelpful to the rest of the community.

 

[Goose4291]

First, that's not how I remember it. Threads in the early days were usually like "Try to pirate me, good luck while I am flying in solo."

Second, if you are correct than it's a good thing that the forum community changed, because proper piracy is a widely accepted and respected ingame activity nowadays.

PS
To clarify:
"Pirates are met with vitriol, something is wrong with the community"
*community changes the behaviour towards piracy*
"There is something wrong with this community regarding PvP"

Doesn't make much sense if you ask me.

Sadly thats how I remember it. I remember those early CG threads where a type 6 pilot would bemoan dying to a pirate 'griefer' using the same sort of rhetoric we see now used for what is regarded as the 'pvp broforce' when their death had been caused by flying unshielded and refusing to negotiate the trying to run, at which point open traders like myself would recieve similar ire for suggesting they created the conditons for their death due to these decisions and flying in open.

And the good luck trying to pirate me/attack me in solo threads quickly degenerated into salt mining attempts against pvpers, rather than the nicer way they started (again, I'll mention this for the umpteenth time before someone jumps down my throat, i dont mind solo or pg players until they start taking part in indirect pvp and rubbing the other sides nose in it).

The reason you dont see the piracy threads anymore is that because of game mechanics and until recently, moderators turning a blind eye to pro-combat logging threads and the like, 'proper' pirates have gone the way of the dinosaur. I guarantee if piracy was still semi-viable and people took part in it with the numbers like they did in earlier builds, we'd see similar attitudes towards them and insults thrown that the current crop of pvp types have to deal with.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

I know we have heated debates, but recent events sadden me.

I recently visited a PvP discord. I learned that they were hosting a PvP event. I asked why they weren't posting it here on the official forum, and the reply was:

"Forums aren't the place for pvp. Posters only cry about it, mods don't like it. Everyone who would be interested is on reddit or on the discord servers we posted to."

The one I spoke with didn't care to elaborate, so I'll just leave the comment here. But I'm genuinely surprised that the official forum isn't considered the goto platform for all who play Elite: Dangerous.

Maybe I'm just unaware of the importance of reddit and discord. Or that this forum was considered toxic by PvPers. I asked if it would be frowned upon if I shared the event here, and got no reply. Consent through silence I guess. So here's a link. It sounds like fun:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5orehu/event_small_ship_pvp_event_this_saturday/

See you in the black commanders.

(talk about a divided community... )

It's because the PvP community has a bad reputation for being the school bullies because Open Mode is "their" playground, and if anyone doesn't like it they can stay in Solo or Private Group.

Last poll I saw, it's something like this:

70% of players play Elite for PvE

28% of players play Elite for PvE and occasional PvP if required

2% of players play Elite for PvP

So, that's possibly only around 10-15% of players ruling the playground that is Open Mode.

Some sandbox when you bully the majority of players out of the box. But hey, the more people that aren't in Open Mode, the more bored they will be - so sucks to be them, and I honestly couldn't care less if they couldn't gank any defenseless ships.

 

[Riverside]

See this is the problem with you and others on these forums. You need to accept that "Blaze your own trail" = anything can happen in Open. Anyone can start shooting you indiscriminately for absolutely no reason if they wish to do so, call it being a villain, jerk, scum or terrorist.

While the game allows for these activities, you need to bear in mind that other players may well not react well to that behaviour. They may not come back to open for example.

I see it as overfishing; short term lols but long term sad smiley. The roleplaying PvP community is damaged by the few who cannot get along with others & merely want them to suffer.

 

[Sole Hunter]

If you are sending short, easy to read messages throughout I'd completely agree. If you interdict me successfully I will definitely run, if you open fire I will not stop, but if it looks like I will lose my ship & you send me a simple choice like we will stop firing if you stop running I will definitely consider it.

I'll also happily talk weapons stowed but will be wary of the sneaky pirate, while being sneaky myself.

I think it's of utmost importance that the genuine Pirate do everything they can to differentiate themselves from the PKers.

You can also blame it on the fact that some players are very bad at this game and simply do not know how to play or deal with pirates/gankers. Rinzler made a video quite recently that display a type 7 being able to jump from an FDL in less than 3-5 sec after being interdicted, there's really no excuse.

Well certainly I think we all agree that mutual respect creates a more positive environment than derision, condescension & baiting, that's a given.

Some of what you describe is possibly down to either an intended joke that backfired, or a sense of humour failure. Try not to take offence on behalf of others, they may shrug off or find funny what, if it were directed at you, might be offensive.

I don't find my post funny.

The PVP community has been ignored since the day piracy died. Horizon was mostly focused on exploration and combat. We haven't received a serious PVP oriented balance patch until now. All im saying is PVP has been largely ignored for a long time so it's not shocking to see this kind of thread and people like OP to be frustrated with it's direction. You can't really blame him for that.

Just an example : The first PVP/CQC tournament with a large money prize pool was cancelled and or ignored and the Icarus CUP has been dead since 22/07/2016.

I agree with you, respect definitely creates a more productive environment but it's been quite clear, for my self, there's little to no respect for the PVP community on these forums.

 

[Panticus]

Oooh, you PVP-ers are so hardcore.

Swoon.

I'd like to be like you, but I don't think I'm hard enough.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

The PVP community has been ignored since the day piracy died

What twoddle is this ?! Piracy hasn't died in the slighest ... PvP-Piracy maybe more difficult / non existent but piracy as a whole is doing OK (could use some love but certainly isn't "dead" )

Also,

• ED isn't a PvP-combat focused game so expect that aspect to be on the back burner more often than not.
• The CQC tournament was FD trying to play with the big boys (eSports tournaments) and failed - that's not necessarily any reflection upon the PvP community but rather itself
• I have no idea what the Icarus CUP is sorry.

 

[askavir]

I agree with you, respect definitely creates a more productive environment but it's been quite clear, for my self, there's little to no respect for the PVP community on these forums.

Well, you did say that "respect has to be earned, period"...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I agree with you, respect definitely creates a more productive environment but it's been quite clear, for my self, there's little to no respect for the PVP community on these forums.

Well, keep in mind that you do post in SDC character from time to time, and in those cases your aim is to provoke. You get the responses you are looking for, so you can't complain about them afterwards.

That isn't aimed towards the PvP community, that's aimed towards you and SDC.

 

[Sole Hunter]

While the game allows for these activities, you need to bear in mind that other players may well not react well to that behaviour. They may not come back to open for example.

I see it as overfishing; short term lols but long term sad smiley. The roleplaying PvP community is damaged by the few who cannot get along with others & merely want them to suffer.

You can't blame the PVP community because you are bad at the game or because you are ignorant of the consequences of open play. Blame Frontier and their screwed design if you are looking for someone to blame.

I still find it hilarious that there's no disclaimer or warning when you click on open. We've been asking for it for nearly 2 years now.

While I may agree with you that this kind of behaviour might come as a shocker for some players, (myself included when I first started playing this game) but you can't just blame it on PVP'ers who are simply playing the game the way it was designed.

You know some people don't want to roleplay and type in plain text, they just want to blow up internet pixel spaceships.

 

[Spaceburger]

Are they really "pirates" if they don't have hatchbreakers ?

If you're a really good aim and can anticipate the other player and if you're able to shoot out the hatch and if you're careful then maybe, but that's a lot of if's

When I tried being a pirate in my Adder a while ago (arrr!) I couldn't fit hatchbreakers. I would interdict someone, ask for cargo and they would usually just laugh and wake out.
I would follow them and interdict them again, sometimes up to 3x in a row! 80% of the pilots I tried this with would give up the goods (without a shot fired from either side) and some of them were nice and made a friend too. It was a lot of fun and I never thought of piracy to be my sort of thing.

I mean, they probably just felt sorry for me because I was going for ships like Cutters and Annies in my puny Adder, buuuuuut it was definately a ton of fun and got the heart racing when the trader decided to fight instead of run. (That was when I would turn and scarper).

I'm not too sure what I was getting at writing this up now, but I just wanted to say that not all PVP has to be to the death. And you don't need a mega death machine to have a hell of a time with other players.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Oooh, you PVP-ers are so hardcore.

Swoon.

I'd like to be like you, but I don't think I'm hard enough.

Hehe. They do make medicine for that.
Or you can just play Solo like I do.

 

[Riverside]

You can also blame it on the fact that some players are very bad at this game and simply do not know how to play or deal with pirates/gankers. Rinzler made a video quite recently that display a type 7 being able to jump from an FDL in less than 3-5 sec after being interdicted, there's really no excuse.

Sole Hunter, we have discussed this kind of thing in the past & I am probably more accepting of your stance on the matters than most, but the way you and some other manage to be simultaneously really good at a thing and turn that into a bad thing somehow defies logic.

I am your target, I PvE in open, always prepared for a challenging aggressor such as yourself, a lot of what I enjoy about playing in open is keeping up to speed on where the hotspots are & simply avoiding them. We have never met in-game (to my knowledge) and if we ever do, I hope you will enjoy the challenge I provide (I will run).

I rarely use help guides, I like to work things out for myself. Many players do, it's that kind of game where quite a lot of the challenge is in solving the puzzle yourself.

The vid you mention has received many positive comments on this forum, an experienced player passing on tips to the less experienced.

But surely you appreciate therefore that because you are among the better players in your area of speciality you must also see that others are not so good at what you do. They may be good at other things that you are not interested in.

When you interdict some poor sap in an obviously sub-optimal loadout do you temper your fire? Do you toy with them to let them think they have a chance? Or do you simply hammer them with maximum effort?

You don't have to just make vids & tell people 'learn or die', you can help them become better content for you live, in the game.

set up a protection racket & be the mafia. If you really are roleplaying the Pirate you are the cream of the crop, act that way & manage the overfishing.

 

[Sole Hunter]

Well, you did say that "respect has to be earned, period"...

You got me there, lol...

Thing is you don't see PVP'ers making threads about PVE'ers harming the game do you? You do see a lot of crying from players who are in open and get their ship blown up to pieces thought followed by a vitriol of insults towards the PVP'ers on these very forums but when someone in the PVP community make a thread like this one, oh M gee! here we go the 200 pages.

Someone in this thread said along the lines "My view of the PVP community has changed a lot over the years playing this game". I've noticed quite a few individuals on this forum turning to the dark side, joining us "SDC", others playing on our side, killing for our name or doing the exact same thing we do which is : play the dam game.

They finally realized it doesn't hurt to blow up internet pixel spaceships and that it doesn't make you a crazy person to play the game the way it's designed.