PvP (Open) commanders not welcome on this forum?...

[Deadspin]

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Random example: my friend of university times who i met over the x-mas vacations. As we both are gamers, we talked about what we play, and it turns out he also bought this game. But unlike me, he didn't bother to learn about private groups, but rather started Open and went ahead. According to what he told me, he was shot down several times in a row. What irritated me was that he said he even still could see the scrap of his old sidewinder. Turns out, he several times was shot down when trying to leave the outpost the new player starts at.
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After that, he quit the game, returning to Battlefield 1. As we're in contact again (and as i don't have BF1), i managed to play some rounds in MWO with him, but couldn't persuade him to try this game again.
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So what's the lesson out of that? He's a PvE whiner, who just by accident plays MWO and is in a BF1 clan? He got to "git gud" and should have played solo till he had a FDL or some other PvP relevant ship? He was stupid to spawn at the beginner station, which is a well known spot for such actions? (Sorry, but -any- of the possible answers i provided, just as well as any other answer i yet had to read on the topic, is somewhere in the area between unrealistic, unreasonable and stupid. )
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My lesson would be: one guy "had fun" by killing beginners. He cost the game one player, who definitely won't play any more and thus won't buy skins or expansions. Also i very much think that the player in question, who repeatedly killed my friend, did not do that only to one person. So i guess among many other things, a ganker is somebody who by his action inflicts more damage to the playerbase and the financial situation of the owning company than he could ever bring benefit.
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So uh.. How long ago was this?

Because newbie players can't leave solo until they've made their first jump out of system and I'm not sure when Frontier implemented that mechanic, if it wasn't there from day one.

Source: Me trying to help friends who had just bought the game by doing palladium dumps and not being able to get them into open to do the trade/drop-off, ultimately resorting to google to figure out why.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I prefer salt myself.

Honey and salt go well together. I can make nice chicken coating with it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Honey and salt go well together. I can make nice chicken coating with it.

Salted honeyed cashew nuts [heart]

Now I feel sorry for vinegar [sad]

 

[DukeIronHand]

A BGS gank!
Guess I am a bad person after all...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Salted honeyed cashew nuts [heart]

Now I feel sorry for vinegar [sad]

Don't! Sweet, sour and salty - it der trinity of taste!!!

 

[LeoBartlet]

I Don’t Want to Belong to Any Club That Will Accept Me as a Member.

 

[Martian Successor]

BGS manipulation is worse than ganking or griefing? hardly. BGS can be manipulated by anyone in any mode. I also highly doubt that the majority of PvEers are intentionally manipulating the BGS. At the very least, I know I don't.

I never said that PvEers were innocent in all of this. Just saying that PvPers have no right to play the victim. Also, chat log? Again just being mean with text. No different than the forums. PvEers won't go and gank a noob for the lols. When I said malice in the game, I meant in the course of actual game play. I get that I didn't specify. Don't worry. I will spell everything out for you.

Beginning to think that you actually are intentionally twisting my words, given how often you do it.

Lol, blowing up imaginary space pixels is worse than hurling verbal abuse at someone on a personal level? In what world is that considered right?

You do realise that combat in the game doesn't involve any actual physical contact or violence right? Attacking someone verbally in-game or on the forums is against the EULA and forum rules. Playing against someone and blowing up their imaginary pixels in the game is part of playing the game. That's all that needs to be said about that really. All due respect but you must have a bit of a screw loose to argue otherwise.

Intentional BGS manipulation is indirect PvP. Is it worse than ganking? I'd say yeah, considering a direct PvP action such as ganking or any other form of player to player combat can be avoided 100% whereas your minor faction being tanked cannot.

As for the "intentionally twisting my words" comment. Just stop. I already apologised for misreading your other comment when you legitimately brought it up the first time. This time though you're just doing it on purpose and you know it. Seriously, stop fishing and stick to an honest discussion please.

 

[verminstar]

I remember that thread, I also remember a lot of PvPers took time out to mock him and stated that he didn't speak for them

I dont really care who he was or wasnt speaking on behalf of...I used it merely as an example of why pvprs coming onto the forums with all guns blazing usually backfires in spectacular fashion. As in its self inflicted, so coming here and playing the victim card simply doesnt wash. I know several high profile pvp players through these forums...always have time to read what they write because its not just ott broad brushed insults and innuendo. Its well thought out and contructive unlike some the utter tripe others leave...like the example I used.

 

[thirstyfish]

Lol, blowing up imaginary space pixels is worse than hurling verbal abuse at someone on a personal level? In what world is that considered right?

You do realise that combat in the game doesn't involve any actual physical contact or violence right? Attacking someone verbally in-game or on the forums is against the EULA and forum rules. Playing against someone and blowing up their imaginary pixels in the game is part of playing the game. That's all that needs to be said about that really. All due respect but you must have a bit of a screw loose to argue otherwise.

Intentional BGS manipulation is indirect PvP. Is it worse than ganking? I'd say yeah, considering a direct PvP action such as ganking or any other form of player to player combat can be avoided 100% whereas your minor faction being tanked cannot.

As for the "intentionally twisting my words" comment. Just stop. I already apologised for misreading your other comment when you legitimately brought it up the first time. This time though you're just doing it on purpose and you know it. Seriously, stop fishing and stick to an honest discussion.

There is a phrase about sticks and stones that comes to mind. Is that not the case? Then PvPers can knock it off too.

BGS manipulation is easily countered. Do some counter manipulation of your own, or just move to a different system. I have several systems that I move between to avoid just that sort of scenario. Can't possibly get them all. BGS manipulation is not only easily avoided, but easily countered. Only one of the two statements is true for direct pvp. 2 > 1.

Just because something is part of the game doesn't mean that I have to be happy with it. Besides, this is the actions of someone else, not the actions of the game.

If you use the phrase "all due respect" or "no offence" there is always a "but" and what follows the "but" is ALWAYS offensive or disrespectful. Nice red herring to boot. Griefing someone easily qualifies as harassment, which violates the EULA. Works both ways.

The twisting comment was intentional. I didn't include it again for no reason. I know I did it on purpose. That was the entire point. Yes you apologized for the one, but then you did it again. So I pointed it out again.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Whether you do pvp, pve or both shouldn't matter. The issue is that people forget that this is just a game and nothing more. I lost friends, real life friendships because they couldn't handle the fact that I wanted to do something different. That there my friends is the biggest problem; nothing we do in this game has any real impact in real life yet people will only ever see you for the person in the ship. Do they give a damn that you're a doctor or a teacher; nope, because you shot some guy in some system you're pure evil right? And I'm sure our significant others sigh when we turn around and say "5 more minutes."

I've watched decades of friendship lost over PvP. It happens if both are on opposing sides, or the same side of an in-game conflict. The insults I received, from someone with no training or military experience, for not "carrying harder" or "being unworthy of being a member of a team" still hurts. Especially if all the opposition has gold mechs, and the best twitch skills on the planet.

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I'd suggest to never post on reddit - if you do, you've arrived at the cesspit of the internet and can't sink any lower .

Obviously, you were never on ARPANet, or it's lineal descendant, USENET...

 

[Zambrick]

Lol, blowing up imaginary space pixels is worse than hurling verbal abuse at someone on a personal level? In what world is that considered right?

You do realise that combat in the game doesn't involve any actual physical contact or violence right? Attacking someone verbally in-game or on the forums is against the EULA and forum rules. Playing against someone and blowing up their imaginary pixels in the game is part of playing the game. That's all that needs to be said about that really. All due respect but you must have a bit of a screw loose to argue otherwise.

Intentional BGS manipulation is indirect PvP. Is it worse than ganking? I'd say yeah, considering a direct PvP action such as ganking or any other form of player to player combat can be avoided 100% whereas your minor faction being tanked cannot.

As for the "intentionally twisting my words" comment. Just stop. I already apologised for misreading your other comment when you legitimately brought it up the first time. This time though you're just doing it on purpose and you know it. Seriously, stop fishing and stick to an honest discussion please.

Have you felt you wont this argument yet? Being over sensitive is a personal problem and has nothing do with the game. Have you PVPed in the forum enough. How about we move along.

As for the virtual pixels argument you are so poorly attempting to defend, No its not the ship being blown up that makes people angry. Its how much time that they have just gotten stolen from them. I have been blown up by griefers after spending a 2 to 3 hours a day for 2 months exploring and gathering data. All to be blown away for the lolz. I got nothing for that. How was I to know that a new loophole to bypass system law was found? I wasnt around to experience the latest greatest way to ruin other peoples game. That is what makes people angry. That is only one of the many dozens of times I have been blown up for the lolz. I think since launch Code has robbed me 3 times and that was all. They didnt blow me up or run to the forums and brag. It was just a nice transaction. The rest have been interdictions with the sole intent of blowing away my ship.

 

[Fracktal]

Lol, blowing up imaginary space pixels is worse than hurling verbal abuse at someone on a personal level? In what world is that considered right?

Unfortunately it's not only pixels, it's a time related factor. Like when some people get stuck in traffic and loose their temper.

Remember that sometimes it's not hours but days of in-game time that can be wiped for no apparent reason.

You can react and take action against verbal abuse in game (or in the forum) by blocking/ignoring and reporting.

What can you do when your space pixels and your time goes boom and knowing that the perpetrator will suffer no consequences?

 

[Cosmos]

You're ... you're "into" Dinosaurs ? [wacko]

Its gamer speak for wrecked

You may want to reread your posts, I do my best to try to hold a neutral stance when talking about things with people, (and no i'm not perfect by any stretch), I try to understand the other side because it helps me understand the topic being discussed better, but your posts seem to be attacking said group a lot.

Well I have my views of course and I can't deny some of that is based upon the endless mudslinging thats gone on, so if my posts aren't couched in 100% politically correct language I'm not going to apologise for that. The theme of this thread was that PvPers are unwelcome on this board and I think thats a modest way of putting it.

I don't see whats wrong with what I wrote but its not intended as trying to belittle anyone. I certainly haven't used any perjorative terms

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I'm not talking about taking part in PvP, its not something that tickles me. I'm talking about having open and friendly discourse with them without resorting to insults, which is why, once again, it might be rather nice of you to apologize for your comment about crap tier players. I mean, if you wonder why PvP players are not welcome, then you've proven to be a shining example of why that might be.

Well this is a bit rich. If we are asking people to say sorry then I think the burden falls clearly upon the shoulders of those who've made it their mission in life to berate anyone who PvPs, and make this a no go zone for them.

Personally I'd settle for the daily mudslinging to be knocked off.. You know, the griefer this, griefer that, rapists, psycho's, murder hobo's and so on..

 

[CMDR Aengus]

In fact if you are playing even Solo then others are Your content. You can influe their BGS/PP/CG. Then you are dictating terms of play and they can counter You only through the way what you want to play, not they. You have a counter for them (you can refuse pvp direct interaction), but accept other pvp interactions.

They are good in X-Wing way of space combat play. You are good in Master Of orion. They are shooting guys and they are good in it, poor in strategy. You are good in strategy games, but not in pew pew.
Then you have immune to their combat skills because simply they have no chances to meet and stop you, and you can stop them and avoid them by a solo mode and BGS manipulations.

You can troll any biggest faction BGS and they will not able to stop you. They will even have no single chance to know its 'you'. Its not good.

These both things should be connected and depend of each other, then players would take their roles. Now player can refuse everything and do anything to everyone and nobody can stop him.

Its your own fault if you're in the 'crap tier' of masters of orion gamplay. You need to learn the mechnics of the game better and improve.

ED isnt just about pew pew you know.
Youve only got yourself to blame if youre losing.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I've watched decades of friendship lost over PvP. It happens if both are on opposing sides, or the same side of an in-game conflict.

I used to race in an online league with work friends and colleagues.

2 took each other out on a fast corner. This escalated into a heated argument then the following day their boss had to pull them apart to stop them hitting each other

These were 2 friends who had an accident. ..... At this point i decided enouh was enough i have no interest once things get that competative, imagine if 2 people some competative who dont know each other get involved.

I love multiplayer games with friends. In COOP. Players who are competative and enjoy PvP thats great too, just so long as they do not force themsekves on me.

As for the BGS / PP etc i see your point but in this instance that is the game you bought for better or for worse

 

[Goose4291]

So uh.. How long ago was this?

Because newbie players can't leave solo until they've made their first jump out of system and I'm not sure when Frontier implemented that mechanic, if it wasn't there from day one.

Source: Me trying to help friends who had just bought the game by doing palladium dumps and not being able to get them into open to do the trade/drop-off, ultimately resorting to google to figure out why.

I didnt want to point out the blatant obvious for fear of recieving fire, but thanks for doing it for me.

All these stories run counter to how mechanics work.

 

[Jimmysal]

Youve only got yourself to blame if youre losing.

i see your point but in this instance that is the game you bought for better or for worse

Spoken like a couple of dyed in the wool PVP fighter jocks. Well said

 

[A Non Bias Opinion About PVE]

I know we have heated debates, but recent events sadden me.

I recently visited a PvP discord. I learned that they were hosting a PvP event. I asked why they weren't posting it here on the official forum, and the reply was:

"Forums aren't the place for pvp. Posters only cry about it, mods don't like it. Everyone who would be interested is on reddit or on the discord servers we posted to."

The one I spoke with didn't care to elaborate, so I'll just leave the comment here. But I'm genuinely surprised that the official forum isn't considered the goto platform for all who play Elite: Dangerous.

Maybe I'm just unaware of the importance of reddit and discord. Or that this forum was considered toxic by PvPers. I asked if it would be frowned upon if I shared the event here, and got no reply. Consent through silence I guess. So here's a link. It sounds like fun:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5orehu/event_small_ship_pvp_event_this_saturday/

See you in the black commanders.

(talk about a divided community... )

mention 1 word about pvp or say explorations isnt everything the community will full on go toxic

 

[sewerratuk]

I dont really care who he was or wasnt speaking on behalf of...I used it merely as an example of why pvprs coming onto the forums with all guns blazing usually backfires in spectacular fashion. As in its self inflicted, so coming here and playing the victim card simply doesnt wash. I know several high profile pvp players through these forums...always have time to read what they write because its not just ott broad brushed insults and innuendo. Its well thought out and contructive unlike some the utter tripe others leave...like the example I used.

And maybe a problem is that some don't care who he does or doesn't talk on behalf of. I'm not playing a victim card, I'm trying to point out that some folk around here get their hackles up as soon as PvP is mentioned and instantly paint you as a griefer/ganker/horrible person irl

I'm glad that you can listen and understand reasonable discussion and I would hope you can differentiate people rather than putting everyone in a box. Some of us that like PvE and PvP get a bit bored of being accosted by the extremes and are liable to bite both sides

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I used to race in an online league with work friends and colleagues.

2 took each other out on a fast corner. This escalated into a heated argument then the following day their boss had to pull them apart to stop them hitting each other

These were 2 friends who had an accident. ..... At this point i decided enouh was enough i have no interest once things get that competative, imagine if 2 people some competative who dont know each other get involved.

I love multiplayer games with friends. In COOP. Players who are competative and enjoy PvP thats great too, just so long as they do not force themsekves on me.

As for the BGS / PP etc i see your point but in this instance that is the game you bought for better or for worse

Stuff like this never happens because of events in a video game. It's all of the friction built up over years that led to that being a breaking point.

Are we now going to just conveniently forget that long-term relationships come with a lot of baggage so that we can add a tick-box to the list of theoretical negatives against PvP play?

Please..... Let's keep reality and video games in their separate corners.