Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[Deleted member 182079]

I'm not really sure the benefit I get out of open play is really there any more, since the carrier update supercruise traffic in most systems I visit has plummeted. I think maybe people move around in complete safety with their carriers & spend much less time playing in a way that allows the opportunity to cross paths with other players.

And not playing in open does completely eliminate any risk of attack from hostile players too of course, although for me that would make it seem quite a bit less of an adventure

I ask this myself more and more as well. At least in Solo you have Hi-Res screenshots and no longer face delays when entering station instances that are actually populated by players for once (quite rare now, even at Jameson's traffic in Open isn't what it used to be).

I have to actively seek out other players, while some time back you used to bump into hollow squares in various random places which made the whole affair feel more organic, but now I have to go to the same old 2-3 systems where I know I run a higher chance of running into them, but that's still no guarantee I run into hostiles - so I fly my 2-3 ships that I wouldn't describe as PvP but they're no pushovers either, and as such are pretty gimped in terms of PvE utility - only to just meet a bunch of noobs docking at Deciat and sitting there for 20 minutes (not blaming them, they're busy engineering their ships). It all just feels very gamey to me. Like CQC, but with more effort and time required.

On top of that, I have a confession to make - yesterday, for the first time after playing the game for 5 years, I attacked and destroyed a Conda that spawned out of nowhere at Dav's Hope (instance flipping presumably), I noticed some laser fire and sure enough, the Conda was Wanted. Didn't take long to make it blow up, but here's the thing.... I felt... kinda bad, the bounty was only 200 credits so I don't think I bagged a real "bad guy" either (combat rank was Expert I think, but that doesn't mean much), at least not a player killer (there were some SRV clubbers out there who I was actually after).

You could argue that you shouldn't camp with Wanted status at a popular gank site but I didn't get much satisfaction out of it, and I don't think I'll be able to become bloodthirsty for PvP either. Fair play to them for not logging on me, but as I said... it didn't really feel satisfying to me to see a player ship pop, especially since they didn't fight back. Could've been an NPC instead, would've felt the same honestly.

I think what squadrons (such as the Reapers, or SPEAR, or like minded player groups) have is pretty neat, and I'm always quite curious to hear about their stories and drama ensuing, but because my playstyle in Elite is mostly lone wolf rather than being a team player, that doesn't really suit me all that much. I did enjoy the few times I hooked up with @Bigmaec but it takes a certain level of dedication and commitment to be in the same place at the same time, and organised PvP isn't really my cup of tea at all, I'd rather jump into CQC instead.

I think the best period in terms of organic PvP was during the II's, and the two Borann's due to the player numbers they attracted, even though many switched to Solo/PG after a short while, which stopped my piracy career before it even really got started.

 

[ethelred]

The FCs have also killed piracy ... did frontier think about these side-effects? I wonder.

No chance. There hasn't (wasn't) a unified strategy for features added to the game since the very early days, and those features added haven't been fully fleshed out.

 

[ethelred]

So, you expect guy that just started game recently to know everything about evading, having same skills and knowledge base of one who has been in the game for years?

And that's the problem, following your logic, best solution is just to choose different mode, which is pretty sad, because, as it has been said before countless times, what's the point in Open, unless you are looking to PVP? If you run non-combat ships? Being victim constantly on the run? Guess some folks may find something exciting about it, but it would be quite a minority.

No, I expect them to want to improve in the game and get better. Before the disagreeable "git gud" thing became a meme that was the usual way people improved in games or indeed any endeavour.

In these threads there are ALWAYS people like me offering "git gud" but with practical advice and offers of help. Danque even sends friend requests with advice to people he blows up.

In Ye Olden Days, these lessons were taught by the AI, now it's a very low chance of meeting a human CMDR in a few scattered hotspots.

My preference is always that players should seek to improve and choose Open, but as others and you have indeed said some CMDRs don't want to do that.

If you don't want the hassle, choose a different mode, as a minority do.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I think that comparison is going way too far..

At this point, all this thread is 2 sides: One that wants the other to simply admit they engage in and enjoy "antisocial" behaviour. The other says: Not true, here's why <insert reasons> but, umm, errr, yeah, maybe.

I know this isn't enough for some, but just give me something I can RP with.. Depending on build, I might ask for a couple of mins to offload whatever, Mission Runner has weapons, gimme a chance and I'll shoot back.. Get in the way of my primary task without any reason? Evade and block. Attack my Explorer? Evade and block.

EDIT: Just for interest's sake, there is no one on my block list. My location and timezone are against ever instancing with most of you. Mind you, can't find my housemate half the time.

The puzzling thing is the lacklustre 'evil' side in ED. In other games, for example eve, folks pick up the mantle of dr. Evil unambiguously. In ED it's always mealy-mouthed, excuse--laden, wimpy and feeble.

"Yeah, I am a big bad evil ganker! But I do it for the challenge, and I want to make friends, and be a mentor to people. Please understand me, give me attention and say I am not that annoying!"

It is all a bit sad, ya know, with the looking-for-surrogate-daddy's-approval-vibes. Anyway, OP has got what these types of people have craved since the Code was a thing in ED: attention. That is, in the end, what drives all of these purple-haired folks.

 

[Pristine_Bump]

The FCs have also killed piracy ... did frontier think about these side-effects? I wonder.

For non FC owners perhaps ,my FC on the other hand is busy robbing bigger fare

Ive only been "Ganked" once and recently in Dezra with my suicide winder going to buy some Bubble ships Im sure the Multi,s Vette was very happy and I laughed lots ,will look them up some when
when im not pressed for time .

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

The fact that you resort to tactics like sexual harassment actually got me to laugh.

lol wut

As to shaking my finger at you, that implies that I feel you are in need of correction. Denial is not, in and of itself, a crime. I just want you to stop answering questions that aren't being asked.

More finger wagging, I see.

Well, I gave it a thought and the best I can tell your problem is this: I play the game how I play without apology. On the forums, I don't suffer fools. That ain't everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine. I just don't care.

Life's too short!

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

WRT owning it.

I've always owned it. I just take it farther than most and don't care if it upsets people.

You'd be surprised how much good you can accompish dishing out rebuys!

 

[Bigmaec]

The puzzling thing is the lacklustre 'evil' side in ED. In other games, for example eve, folks pick up the mantle of dr. Evil unambiguously. In ED it's always mealy-mouthed, excuse--laden, wimpy and feeble.

"Yeah, I am a big bad evil ganker! But I do it for the challenge, and I want to make friends, and be a mentor to people. Please understand me, give me attention and say I am not that annoying!"

It is all a bit sad, ya know, with the looking-for-surrogate-daddy's-approval-vibes. Anyway, OP has got what these types of people have craved since the Code was a thing in ED: attention. That is, in the end, what drives all of these purple-haired folks.

That's why I root for Zarek Null, Colonia Jesus and Phisto Sobanii...

The bad guys Elite needs!

Z0

 

[Kloppage Time]

lol wut



More finger wagging, I see.

Well, I gave it a thought and the best I can tell your problem is this: I play the game how I play without apology. On the forums, I don't suffer fools. That ain't everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine. I just don't care.

Life's too short!

You don't suffer fools?!!

Everything is relative, I suppose.

 

[Danquememe]

The puzzling thing is the lacklustre 'evil' side in ED. In other games, for example eve, folks pick up the mantle of dr. Evil unambiguously. In ED it's always mealy-mouthed, excuse--laden, wimpy and feeble.

"Yeah, I am a big bad evil ganker! But I do it for the challenge, and I want to make friends, and be a mentor to people. Please understand me, give me attention and say I am not that annoying!"

It is all a bit sad, ya know, with the looking-for-surrogate-daddy's-approval-vibes. Anyway, OP has got what these types of people have craved since the Code was a thing in ED: attention. That is, in the end, what drives all of these purple-haired folks.

So wait:
If I blow people up without saying anything, would that be owning "being evil"? This thread suggests that's toxic gameplay, at least for many of the recipients.

Based on feedback from this thread, I've modified my behavior while ganking. I've added roleplay elements and in-game reasons for it. I'm still doing the evil thing. I'm owning it. No where have I been unclear about that.

But, as a player, I'm also offering what help I can. Because this thread has made it clear that would be a better and more appreciated way to play my evil role. Better for other players, better for the game experience as a whole.

And now I'm not "owning" it, according to you? Someone who has inserted themselves into this thread to pose as a self-proclaimed arbiter of what is right and wrong, then claiming it's actually the other people who are begging for attention?

Unconvincing. If I had to pick one word to sum up everything you're contributed so far to this thread, that would be it.

 

[MishaTX]

If I blow people up without saying anything, would that be owning "being evil"? This thread suggests that's toxic gameplay, at least for many of the recipients.

I certainly wouldn't call it "evil", that word has a rather specific meaning to me, I'd only go as far as to say that being killed for no apparent reason offers me absolutely nothing of value, so I might as well just choose to never go Open again if experiences are what I'm looking for. And I'd never call it "toxic" because, again, I'm old enough to remember that words have meanings, and "something that annoys you and makes you mad" has nothing to do with the meaning of the word "toxic", which means something that will kill you/make you sick if you ingest it and/or let it come in contact with you.

Much as I've been annoyed by people being obnoxious to me in my life, I have yet to suffer death, rashes or illness simply from encountering them.

Sorry, old fart here getting increasingly sick and tired of the basic dictionary of the English language being rewritten on an almost daily basis thanks to anti-social media. Subject for another discussion/thread.

We're cool, Danque

 

[Danquememe]

Let's tell these whippersnappers to get off our metaphorical lawns, together!

 

[MishaTX]

Let's tell these whippersnappers to get off our metaphorical lawns, together!

None of them on mine. That may have to do with the abundance of razor wire and Claymores out there.

 

[Ian Skippy]

So wait:
I'm still doing the evil thing. I'm owning it. No where have I been unclear about that. But, as a player, I'm also offering what help I can.

This is exactly what I mean. You can be the Big Bad Ganker, doing the evil thing, owning it, and be clear about it. You can also 'offer what help you can'. However, you cannot do the former and claim the latter. Shooting down poorly outfitted asps flown by novice pilots is not 'offering what help you can', it is absurd to even pretend otherwise. If you want to truly be the evil cmdr (and again, look at other games if you are unsure what that even means) you accept what inevitably comes with that: people calling you toxic and so forth. If that is problematic to you and you want to prevent that, you are clearly not truly committed to being the Big Bad Evil Ganker. If people aren't saying you yourself are worse than Hitler on a daily basis, you are simply not much of an evil ganker.

Also, there is some irony involved in complaining about others 'inserting themselves into the thread' given the topic.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

This is exactly what I mean. You can be the Big Bad Ganker, doing the evil thing, owning it, and be clear about it. You can also 'offer what help you can'. However, you cannot do the former and claim the latter. Shooting down poorly outfitted asps flown by novice pilots is not 'offering what help you can', it is absurd to even pretend otherwise.

The best resources for how to build ships capable of surviving ganks are provided by gankers. It's a game. All losses can be recovered. The explosions on the screen are only pixels. No damage is permanent.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The best resources for how to build ships capable of surviving ganks are provided by gankers.

Or you can use common sense and think for 30 seconds yourself. This game is so grossly unbalanced in every conceivable way that preventing being ganked is a no-brainer. You don't need mythical expertise from the Gankers Guild to drop controlled into normal space and hi-wake. And if you do want to be the Chosen One to tell new players this you can do so without blowing them up. Don't have to, but it is an option. Again; dont care what anyone does. It is, after all, not my problem in the slightest. The odds of me being ganked by OP are next to zero, and with my insurance being typically around 200,000 credits he can do so thousands of times without being much more than a mild nuisance. It is all rather academic.

It's a game. All losses can be recovered. The explosions on the screen are only pixels. No damage is permanent.

Not sure why you are stating these obvious facts.

 

[Riverside]

The best resources for how to build ships capable of surviving ganks are provided by gankers. It's a game. All losses can be recovered. The explosions on the screen are only pixels. No damage is permanent.

I think the game can be played that way, and is by plenty. But for victory to mean anything, loss should too. I have plenty of things I don't want to lose even though I could get them back, and I have taken things from others that cannot be recovered (retreating a non-native from a permit locked system is the example I have in mind here).

If somebody plays in a way where they don't care if they lose, fair enough. But I'm not really interested in providing entertainment for them. If I am beaten in a way that matters to me, I would want it to be by someone that celebrates that victory because I was a (hopefully) challenging opponent. Nobody wants to just get steamrollered I think

 

[Danquememe]

This is exactly what I mean. You can be the Big Bad Ganker, doing the evil thing, owning it, and be clear about it. You can also 'offer what help you can'. However, you cannot do the former and claim the latter

I'm sorry if I've ruined your immersion, CMDR.

But you have once again failed to convince me of your counterargument. If you would care to share with us what you are seeking from Open, besides white knighting on behalf of the noobs in an apparent campaign to have all gankers be literally worse than Hitler, and fit into your neat categorization of the world, where everything is either black or white, square pegs go only into square holes, etc.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

This thread suggests that's toxic gameplay

There are people in here that suggest if you don't ask for permission to attack their ship it's akin unlawful and forceful intercourse against someone's will. I would have simply just used the word but FDev censors it.
Anyway, take it with a grain of salt. One person's toxicity is another's fun. The counter argument to this has been the extreme, that every ganker is a seal clubber. A sweeping indictment to a large swath of players on this game. Even insinuating that your game play is possibly subjected to the possibility of being SWATted or other nefarious out of game activity because, jerk person.

 

[Riverside]

There are people in here that suggest if you don't ask for permission to attack their ship it's akin unlawful and forceful intercourse against someone's will. I would have simply just used the word but FDev censors it.
Anyway, take it with a grain of salt. One person's toxicity is another's fun. The counter argument to this has been the extreme, that every ganker is a seal clubber. A sweeping indictment to a large swath of players on this game. Even insinuating that your game play is possibly subjected to the possibility of being swatter or other nefarious out of game activity because, jerk person.

No they don't, that's just your misinterpretation. Go back have a re-read, maybe you'll get it.

ETA here's a good description:

Not sure where this consent stuff came from really. In open, you don't need consent to blow stuff up.

However, claiming that playing in open is consent to blow up my ship is quite twisted logic. It is no more consent for someone to blow up my ship than walking down the street on the south side of Chicago at midnight is consenting to be robbed. Playing in open is merely me accepting that you may blow up my ship. Like walking down the street on the south side of Chicago at midnight may end with me getting robbed. Consent is simply not involved.



TLDR, playing in open is not consent, but no one needs consent anyway. It's a game, not a romantic encounter. Unless that is how you play ED

People arguing over whether a chocolate chip is a raisin or not when the recipe calls for cashews. Pointless.

Selfish behavioir isn't really all that subjective either, if you are acting on a person that's a different thing to interacting with them. There is no hard divide of course, but the difference is usually pretty obvious.