Probably because you’re envisioning the current mind numbing mission design which often entails killing an absurd number of NPCs. I was never of fan of that. Make NPCs tougher and pay players more to kill them.
Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
- Thread starter Danquememe
- Start date
Something I mentioned (only as a side note) earlier in the thread is that there can be an element of 'gang initiation' to Deciat ganking; proving you have 'got what it takes'. The actual victim(s) are not important, they are being acted on, not interacted with. It's not something I do.
Point is that just because you don't see any justification doesn't mean another player, with different motives, doesn't.
I've been in CZs with players on the opposing side. I've put my ship directly in their path (without firing on them) and most get the message & leave. I've had more players agree to switch sides & help me than fire on me
No, I was envisioning the mind-numbing task of blowing up ships built to a PvP meta... Which is what the suggestion appears to be... It is pretty boring destroying the bullet sponges in CZ's - but at least they have a purpose. Just having bullet-sponge NPC's appearing at random would get old very quickly.
Oddly, those aspiring to PvP allegedly have a host of mentors who would be happy to introduce them to the 'sport' - just by being asked...
I'll try this again. Phisto is not a bad guy, he's a zero Bad Words given type. Either you appreciate his candor or don't but I've never known him to apologize it.
I don't think you burst anything. In fact, it might be because I am a rube but what you said made zero sense to me.
Deleted member 182079
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This one right here... must be an alien concept to new(ish) players.
It caused me to menu log (not proud of it but I was inexperienced, young and needed the money!) in my Corvette first time I entered ShinDez because I was jumped on by a gank squad.
If they would've gotten me (and they almost did... 15% hull or something) they would've literally wiped out my credit balance, which took ages to build up back then. It did trigger me trying to figure out how to build more durable ships though.
Dose wear de daze....
No need to be rude, I still have no idea what you're busting of mine? You're talking about instancing whereas I never brought up that facet of the game. I'm not sure where you're going with this but I really don't care. I've had enough condescending prattle from some of the others to last me the week and it just started.
Deleted member 182079
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Inexperienced in PvP, and engineering. Having played the entire time prior to that incident in Solo and just dipped my feet into Open thinking that the biggest and baddest combat ship in the game would make such adventure a bit easier - little did I know then that the Vette is a sitting duck especially if barely A-rated and engineered. And even then, I rarely take it out into a battle where I know I'll be facing 2 or more players at a time. It's just too slow, with a huge hitbox.
Oxymoron resolved?
Edit: I just noticed that grinding dig of yours - for sure, it was a grind, it took me literally years to unlock the Corvette, both in terms of credit and navy rank - occurred pre-3.3 as well. Still, worth it though.
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This isn't about instancing and you've missed my point or at least my opinion on the do gooders. Not sure if that was intentional or not but my point is that I feel they're no different from those they claim to be against. There are plenty of instances of them targeting clean people only based either their alts being associated with certain groups or outright being part of certain groups. Wanted label be damned. But if you want to hide behind instancing go for it. That's your perogative. You'll get no further discussion from me on this. So rest on those laurels, enjoy the pyrrhic victory if you will. Again, I remind I've had enough condescending prattle for the week and it's only just begun. Enjoy your day. I will certainly enjoy mine, instancing or not.
Deleted member 182079
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Well, I joined this forum in 2018, that incident happened shortly before iirc. I was quite ignorant of a lot of things in the game - I tried to unlock Farseer in an unengineered, combat-fitted Vulture. That should give you an idea how I rolled back then. I also didn't play as intensely in the initial year of getting the game, and progress was so slow that even getting out of my Sidey and into an AspX took me months - just to buy the hull let alone A-rate it, which took another age. I lost interest for quite a while as a result of the glacial progression, until Horizons released if I remember this correctly.
Once I discovered the forum I learned a lot, even though Inara et al was unknown to me then still, and OA was the only Elite related Youtuber I was aware of.
It was a very gradual, long learning curve. Jumping into Open made it a fair bit steeper but enriched the game a lot for me because it made me read up more on the various options, both in terms of outfitting and engineering.
I used to get ganked A LOT (naturally as I decided to base myself out of Jameson's, yes, in Open, running the local mission board) but I learned a lot from those encounters, to the extent that evasion has become second nature while keeping a cool head, and (most of) my builds are
Deleted member 182079
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No worries. When I think back, I made so many mistakes which contributed to my slow progression - I didn't understand how the BGS works, how gaining rep with factions increases payouts, etc. etc. Something us experienced players take for granted but I will always remember how much of a noob I was, and how little the game explained in-game. Though that was part of the appeal for me, to work things out - just like in the old days of ........ legitimate backup copies..... of C64 games where you ....... misplaced..... the manual so needed to figure out what you were supposed to do.That was a good read (since I'm coming from a totally different angle/approach it was interesting nonetheless).
I officially take my 'oxymoron' back then.
This describes my first few months of playing too...
I only found this forum as I was 'stuck' trying to do something I didn't understand the mechanics of
Deleted member 182079
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Yeah, I think new players are missing out when it comes to proper progression, but what can you do... I played the original Elite on the C64 (legitimate backup again of course), even just trying to understand what I was supposed to do was a challenge. And getting the credits together for the docking computer was quite a task - I'm still having flashbacks trying to get through the mailslot at <5fps or whatever it was, with a spongy, digital joystick.
I never really made it far in the game; my childhood mind would've been blown if someone would have shown me what we're able to play today. Back then, even just the ability to buy and sell computer components for a profit, or instead do something else, like combat, was some of the deepest gameplay I'd experienced back then.
I beg to differ; you seem to care quite a lot about what I'm doing, and you're making a point to come back again and again to tell me all about it. What that "it" is, I'm still not quite clear about, but I have faith that with time, we'll get to the bottom of "it."
This latest post seems mostly tangential to whatever point it is you're trying to make to me, if you'll forgive my saying so. From its contents, I understand that you feel the game has changed from when it first launched. Apparently, you feel that it's much easier now (in the sense of earning credits, etc) than in the past, and gankers have simultaneously "regressed" (interesting word choice) to being some sort of waffling, weak, wimpy (etc.) and "I can't believe it's not butter" hollow echo of what they once were. With me, apparently, being Example A of same.
Which brings me to my question, namely: what is it you are hoping to achieve or contribute here, besides broadcasting your disdain for the playstyle I've identified myself as participating in, and my apparent failures to live up to your ideal of said playstyle? Is that it? Or is there something more substantive?
Are you trying to tell us that you believe ganking and/or "nonconsensual" PVP are bad for the game, or that doing such things makes us bad people in real life as well as in game? That's certainly been a theme in this thread. Or are you giving me feedback that you think I'm not being ruthless enough in my ganking or in how I talk about it here? That seems like what you're saying, but it just can't be right... why would you want me to be even less kind to the players I interact with? It wouldn't come naturally to me, that's for sure.
Or is it that you simply find it repugnant that a player will choose to play as a ganker and also try to help other players? Is that my true crime? And I'm somehow lying about it to myself, because for you, those two things can't exist in the same person?
I'll point out again that I started this thread very early in my playing career - just a couple weeks in. I've been learning the game both in-game and from this thread, and it's been tremendously educational. I believe my sincerity has been obvious throughout. Never before in my video game playing career have I chosen to be "a bad guy" in the way that you can choose to do so in Elite. So if I seem inexperienced in the role... it's because I am?
But really, I think that in truth it's this grey area that seems to upset you. By actively identifying as a ganker AND as someone who wants to help new players, I'm somehow being more transgressive than simply being a ganker, or being one of the ones hating gankers. At least... I think that's what you're telling me. That I'm not allowed to have it both ways, because... wait, what was the reason again?
That's the part I need help with. Help me understand why I can't play this way, both ganking players and helping them? I mean, if you care to, of course.
In truth, that's the heart of the matter.
Do we have to bring our real-world morals with us into a fantasy video game setting?
TLDR: Opinions on this vary.
Well he probably means that its out of character, you cannot be really bad guy and help others.
I have to say this thread has somewhat opened my thinking about gankers.
No, of course not. But one could argue that you don't just switch off the person you are because it's a game. Your mileage may vary.
Well I usually do somewhat. Usually I'm more good guy in video games than irl.
You say "improve" like Elite is some kind of an e-sport, or has anywhere near significant competitive scene, well, it doesn't. There are just some cheesy tricks to avoid interdiction, which is hilarious (later on that) one can learn, if he digs in google for a couple of weeks as a newbie, which people, in general, don't, because it's a game, and normal people don't take games too seriously.
Now hilarious part: as I did an experiment couple of times, during CGs, trying to interdict people in stock Eagle just for fun, not to kill, as a joke, literally. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY tried to communicate, everyone was jumping away instantly, noone ever answered anything I tried to post in chat, few guys even logged during interdiction. Things you seem to think to teach, as many, such as you, starting giving advices to avoid, absolutely contradict whole philosophy of Open. I mean, it makes people jumpy, it cuts any attempts of communication and roleplay dead in it's tracks. You can actually try similar experiement, and you'll get same results, which might be a little hard these days, with heavily reduced Open traffic, which never was quite that big, as many sources suggest, speaking about "minority"...
And now to important part, what this thread actually is about: considering all the above, and everything I post about complete disparity, disbalace and unfairness, plus no significance or reason behind any actions, like kill just for sake of killing, and die, just to die. What is the point of Open? If everyone runs and do not communicate, which taught from every source, on "how to avoid", if only one group of players has all the advantages, if neither group gets anything out of "interaction" (ganking)? Do you seriously think that mode should even exist?
So one of my hobbies - one that's gotten short shrift due to recent events - is tabletop miniatures gaming. I particularly love games involving miniature planes, like Wings of Glory, X-Wing and the less well-known Battlestar Galactica Starship Battles (which features full FA off maneuvering and is quite cool!). Aircraft and gaming are two real lifelong passions of mine.Well he probably means that its out of character, you cannot be really bad guy and help others.
Anyways, in tabletop gaming, you and your opponent(s) setup across the table from one another. You shake hands and wish each other a good game. You then proceed to destroy one another to the best of your abilities. Afterwards, in almost all cases, you again shake hands and say good game.
I need to make it clear: I do not "immerse" myself so far into my "role" in a video game that it becomes "me." I'm still just a dude sitting at his computer, playing a game, in much the same way as when I'm sitting across a table from someone in person.
So although I completely and fully understand that blowing someone's spaceship up is "not nice," it's also "part of the game" and entirely within both the rules and the spirit, as I understand them, of the game in Open mode.
However, because I am not literally a monster, I also try to reach out to that player and make a human connection with them. That's the friend request part, and the offering of advice part.
It's not because I'm on some crazy power trip, or trying to make some magnanimous gesture or other weird thing. It's because I'm a dude sitting at a computer playing a videogame with other people sitting at their computers. Some of those people I may be able to help in some small way.
I should point out that - this in fact is how I was introduced to the game. Remember that? I got ganked by someone, and they sent a friend request. I accepted the friend request, and wound up getting a huge amount of help in achieving what turns out to be a nontrivial task in Elite: getting a PVP ship ready. In the course of that, I fell in with a group of players who I found fun to hang out with, who were eager to help me advance in the game, and who, yes, were also gankers.
So I'm literally just playing the game in the way it has been taught to me, both by my in-game friends, and by the people who have been helping me learn in this thread, too.
It's weird that the above bears repetition, but it is prescient to the current discussion.
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