Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

[ethelred]

There is plenty of help to survive in Open, but unfortunately most of it is found out of game. The Discord, here and to some extent Inara all offer tips.

The main issue is that there's nothing in game to point you towards these hubs, overtly, so most (YMMV obvs) players experience with the cutthroat galaxy is via a rebuy screen.

Real world analogies don't work at all because the basic assumptions in RL and in game are wildly different.

In game you are immortal.
In game the consequences are different to RL for murder.

Groundhog Day could be a good analogy in that Phil is immortal and it doesn't take him long to get up to shenanigans.

C&P in game does put people off Open and I totally agree that you can spend a good few hours killing Imperials, and then make your way to Achenar with the blood still fresh on your hands and dock there, but I play the game as it is, not how it should be. There are a million features I would like to see implemented, but as long as there is a Wild West, anything goes Open that is where I will be.

 

[Vetinari]

I've played mostly in Open, and found my group of in-game friends through being ganked. They've since gone on to be my mentors and help me learn the game, unlock engineers, etc. If I wasn't playing in Open, I wouldn't have met them, so I'm grateful I did. But my "introduction" came via interdiction and destruction. It turns out that was a very small price to pay to open a door to a huge amount of progression and expert guidance. I wasn't mad about it at the time, and I'm tremendously grateful now, once I realized just how complex and involved making positive progress in this game can be.

That sounds a lot like the person at the train station who tries to get you to join a cult.

 

[Para Handy]

Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
............

Many of us did not buy the game as a space-shooter. Co-operative play is great, being someone's non-consensual "content" is not. - Hence the popularity of Mobius PGs.

 

[ethelred]

Many of us did not buy the game as a space-shooter. Co-operative play is great, being someone's non-consensual "content" is not. - Hence the popularity of Mobius PGs.

So you would choose to play in Open, or in a different mode? I think the OP (and I tbh) is looking for people who play in Open and then have issues with the free form nature.

 

[Para Handy]

So you would choose to play in Open, or in a different mode? I think the OP (and I tbh) is looking for people who play in Open and then have issues with the free form nature.

I play in open away from the hotspots like engineers - I play(ed) in Mobius in CGs (rip). I get 0 player interaction in open - Mobius at least had people who talked (typed).

 

[norlin]

Specifically, I'd like to ask: what kind of player interactions are you hoping to experience in Open, if not PVP combat? What are your expectations? Help me understand what you think Open is going to provide?

And most importantly, how often does it actually happen that you have a cooperative (non-PVP), spontaneous emergent experience in Open? Does that actually happen? I honestly don't know.

Hey, I'm actually always playing in open - any activities, including mining, engineers, Shinrarta, etc...
I'm a fan of MMO genre while I'm mostly don't like to play with other people.
The main reason for me is to feel the other players' impact on the game and the game's world, one way or another.
My flight combat skills are very pure actually, so I don't like being interdicted by other Commanders, while still thinking it's a great feature - make the game more fun and significant, even if I got blown up by another ganker.

To avoid this, I've learned some anti-interdiction tricks, also got Cutter which can fly away when interdicted in probably any case.

What I would love to see in game is player-driven economy and world building.
One more thing I'd like to see is a first-person interactions with other commanders in space - such as pirate-style boarding, stealing ships, maybe even commanders kidnapping lol

Anyway for me it does not make sense to play ED in Solo mode.

 

[Wimmer]

Sorry for the wall of text, but it is all I have to say. And sorry for english misspellings. I'm still learning
Maybe my open play encounters with other commanders will help you understand some point of view. In my opinion this game is not about ganking at all.

1. Being ganked with zero words: I was ganked a lot of times. First three times I was just blow up to the sky without chance for fighting back and without any word from attacker.
2. Being ganked, with some words: I know you reading this, Commander . So I was hauling cargo for Interstellar Initiative. I knew what will happen. One of the gankers, maybe PvPer, maybe not, wrote on local chat "I hate everyone!". So everyone should expect what will happen around
3. Being attacked for a role play reason: So I was hauling some other cargo for some other Interstellar Initiative. I hauled for the Empire. Other Commander was Federal agent. He interdict me and asked me: "Are hauling for the Empire?" I answered: "Yes". So he attacked me. This is a good exemple for me how PvP encounters should looks like. And that was fun. I menaged to escape him twice, but he hunted me for some time.
4. Fighting with Commanders who I like to call a True PvPers. Even if I'm not a PvPer I know some pure combatant Commanders who like to take fair fight. I'm just not a good opponent.
5. Honorable gankers, sometimes: Maybe somone will not belive me, but I know at least two honorable gankers. One of them, a well known ganker, he treated me honorably. I was close to loose my second encounter with him, so I retracted my hardpoints. He did the same thing and we left the fight. He's my in-game enemy now, but I respect him
6. Responding with fire: I'm roleplaying a loner so I'm not going to join any faction and any squadron. But I'm always standing on the good side.
-Fighting with gankers in hotspots like Deciat.
-Trying to protect commanders in Interstellar Initiative. I still remeber that hero who hauled cargo in T9 in open and always asked on local comms for assistance.
7. Helping commanders in their tasks:
-One of my favorite moments in ED was in Guardian ruins: I was there sitting on the ground and waiting for other commanders to arrive. And I've offered them help with shooting sentinels while they can focus on the task with blueprints.
-Vengance: One hour later a ganker has arrived, in his Corvette. I've send him o7, and he responded... with fire. I had a light ship with high range, but not so tough enough. I fought him. And I lost. So I decided to go back to Witch Head Nebula for my tougher ship. And I've done over 35 jumps back to guardian ruins with hope he will still be there. And he was. He killed another commander who also fought. So I cought a guy in Corvette without shields and with 16% of hull... And I made a revenge. For myself and for others.
8. Helping commanders attacked by pirates and gankers in mining hotspot in Borann.
9. Winging with people spotted for the first time over the Palin's old base to fight with Thargoids. That was another best experience in ED.
10. Deep engagement in player driven comunity goals. Like DSSA mission.
-That was absolutely great adventure. We have flew together far away, deep in the Galaxy. We minned together, explored together, have fun together for almost 2 months.
11. Winging with commanders hauling cargo. Sometimes you dying, sometimes they dying, but a least noone is dying alone

So there is a lot to do except ganking. There is a lot of reasons to shoot and have a fun with combat, avoiding troubles, escaping and pirating.
I don't like PvP in this state like we have in ED now. I don't like ganking only for ganking, without words, without any role play.

To summarize my point of wiev: I know there will be trouble, blockades, wars, pirates. I am aware of danger. I'm taking a risk and I'm trying to have some reason. I know that guy who interdicting me also should have a reason.
But I'm not understand 'no reasons', for lulz, for grief, for salt. And no, I do not understand that 'no reason, is a reason too'. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Bottom Hat]

That sounds a lot like the person at the train station who tries to get you to join a cult.

I've seen them too - they keep trying to get me to buy something they call a "season ticket", but I fell for that once before, and it's nice happening again. Cultists, eh?

 

[Drelthar]

And, arguably, I "griefed" this player...

But there was an entirely plausible in-game explanation for doing this, one that had meaningful impact on the game, however slight and small in the larger scheme of things.

This for me is why that wasn't griefing.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I came to Elite for PVP and PVP only

I find this bit quite interesting. And it could well be the crux of the problem/answer to your question.

The majority of players (certainly judging from the reactions and behaviours of others in the game and on these forums), myself included, came to Elite for flying spaceships in space first and foremost, not specifically for PvP, and co-op play is indeed the primary draw when it comes to Open mode.

I basically wanted to re-live my experience with the '85 Elite, with current gen tech, so if ED were to be a purely single player experience, I would've been a-ok with it.

My first 1-1.5 years were played exclusively in Solo. The following 3-4 years exclusively in Open now, with only temporary switches to Solo (high res screen shots and pad hoggers at Outposts, mainly).

While I never really got into the more "shooty" part of PvP (my aim with fixed weapons is hopeless, and I play on a twitchy Xbox pad which doesn't help either - wish the game would provide decent sensitivity settings), I did learn how to evade first and foremost, how to build ships that will withstand a player attack, and can spar with other players for a little bit until I run out of patience (or the other side or I leg it). Each encounter with another player usually provides new lessons to learn from.

The biggest problem for me with active PvP in Elite is that it'll always be a sideshow, a change of pace, a different kind of challenge when I want it, just like those USS's you see everywhere. Optional.

After a longer excursion into the Elysium Shore region and some BGS work in a backwater system with no real player traffic I felt the urge for some player interaction; even in ShinDez it's increasingly difficult to run into a lot of players, presumably due to FCs.

So last night, I spent some time in Deciat. It was fun enough, I used some of the wanted player ships at Farseer base as target practice for my Torpedo Courier (built to maim, not kill), with a few amusing moments - two rebuys, both self inflicted (turns out chasing a Mamba through the local canyons while flying a lightweight build with FA Off sideways at 800m/s can really hurt, so does forgetting to check the wing mirrors when boosting FA Off backwards into the planet)... and eventually seeing the reaction of a noob ganker who engaged me in an FdL panicking and quickly running away after I dropped their shields with 2 hits was quite funny.

Those are brief, fleeting moments though inbetween a fair bit of idle time, and after every session like that I can't help but think I wasted my time somewhat - the fact I'm playing a game is the very definition of that of course, but I do prefer some sort of tangible progression in my games*, be that improving stats, unlocking things, building stuff, etc. and PvP, at least the way it's implemented in Elite, doesn't give me that. It reminds me of "practice mode" in other games.

*The only exception from this is driving sims - because the sensation of driving a realistically modelled car around a track (playing with a wheel) is its own reward, unfortunately I can't say the same about combat in Elite, as fun as it can be. I probably prefer the pure flying aspect more, though sometimes it's nice to shoot at stuff, but NPCs are sufficient for me.

So because of that, [Open] PvE will always remain the focus for me, and PvP will go as far as being on the receiving end (escape and/or not losing my ship is rewarding enough for me thankfully).

I considered 'ganking' noobs in end-game ships in a small ship (Viper, Eagle, Sidey, that sort) but even then I feel too bad for attacking someone else unprovoked. The goody two shoes I am.

Edit - good lord... that turned out to be more rambling than originally intended. Sorry for the wall'o'text.

 

[Brrokk]

I find this bit quite interesting. And it could well be the crux of the problem/answer to your question.

The majority of players (certainly judging from the reactions and behaviours of others in the game and on these forums), myself included, came to Elite for flying spaceships in space first and foremost, not specifically for PvP, and co-op play is indeed the primary draw when it comes to Open mode.

I basically wanted to re-live my experience with the '85 Elite, with current gen tech, so if ED were to be a purely single player experience, I would've been a-ok with it.

My first 1-1.5 years were played exclusively in Solo. The following 3-4 years exclusively in Open now, with only temporary switches to Solo (high res screen shots and pad hoggers at Outposts, mainly).

While I never really got into the more "shooty" part of PvP (my aim with fixed weapons is hopeless, and I play on a twitchy Xbox pad which doesn't help either - wish the game would provide decent sensitivity settings), I did learn how to evade first and foremost, how to build ships that will withstand a player attack, and can spar with other players for a little bit until I run out of patience (or the other side or I leg it). Each encounter with another player usually provides new lessons to learn from.

The biggest problem for me with active PvP in Elite is that it'll always be a sideshow, a change of pace, a different kind of challenge when I want it, just like those USS's you see everywhere. Optional.

After a longer excursion into the Elysium Shore region and some BGS work in a backwater system with no real player traffic I felt the urge for some player interaction; even in ShinDez it's increasingly difficult to run into a lot of players, presumably due to FCs.

So last night, I spent some time in Deciat. It was fun enough, I used some of the wanted player ships at Farseer base as target practice for my Torpedo Courier (built to maim, not kill), with a few amusing moments - two rebuys, both self inflicted (turns out chasing a Mamba through the local canyons while flying a lightweight build with FA Off sideways at 800m/s can really hurt, so does forgetting to check the wing mirrors when boosting FA Off backwards into the planet)... and eventually seeing the reaction of a noob ganker who engaged me in an FdL panicking and quickly running away after I dropped their shields with 2 hits was quite funny.

Those are brief, fleeting moments though inbetween a fair bit of idle time, and after every session like that I can't help but think I wasted my time somewhat - the fact I'm playing a game is the very definition of that of course, but I do prefer some sort of tangible progression in my games*, be that improving stats, unlocking things, building stuff, etc. and PvP, at least the way it's implemented in Elite, doesn't give me that. It reminds me of "practice mode" in other games.

*The only exception from this is driving sims - because the sensation of driving a realistically modelled car around a track (playing with a wheel) is its own reward, unfortunately I can't say the same about combat in Elite, as fun as it can be. I probably prefer the pure flying aspect more, though sometimes it's nice to shoot at stuff, but NPCs are sufficient for me.

So because of that, [Open] PvE will always remain the focus for me, and PvP will go as far as being on the receiving end (escape and/or not losing my ship is rewarding enough for me thankfully).

Edit - good lord... that turned out to be more rambling than originally intended. Sorry for the wall'o'text.

That's similar to me. I see Open as the social mode, not the PvP mode. (Careful use of block can largely make it so). The sad thing is when you meet and hail another player but they just scarper because your ship is bigger. This has happened to me more often than actual player attacks.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

turns out chasing a Mamba through the local canyons while flying a lightweight build with FA Off sideways at 800m/s can really hurt, so does forgetting to check the wing mirrors when boosting FA Off backwards into the planet

Sounds like you should come racing some time - especially as...

I probably prefer the pure flying aspect more

Avoiding those sideways impacts is fun, and there's a tangible progression in that it starts happening less and less.

 

[NCFCpaul]

I'm the galaxy record holder for longest high wake. Pretty awesome.

But yes, this is a nice thread.

You are also the record holder for the greatest gank in the game!

One little bit of posting silliness and Spear packed up their entire squadron to chase you half way across the galaxy! Then you allowed them to kill you once and bounced back to the bubble causing mayhem in their backyard!

If that ain't the biggest gank in the game I'd like to see what the hell is! Huge respect Cmdr! Double record holder!

 

[Deleted member 182079]

That's similar to me. I see Open as the social mode, not the PvP mode. (Careful use of block can largely make it so). The sad thing is when you meet and hail another player but they just scarper because your ship is bigger. This has happened to me more often than actual player attacks.

I used to block gankers, but removed them eventually. To not make life more difficult with instancing for others, but also because I quite like the challenge. The only two players on my block list are cheaters.

I just don't usually stay to fight back because I don't enjoy flying meta combat builds and am usually busy doing PvE stuff, which requires some level of non-combat utility. It's a happy compromise I've found myself in and quite enjoy it.

I also noticed that when you don't whine about losing your ship or getting attacked (not saying you do ofc but I've seen it so very often in sys chat) most gankers are cool - apart from very few exceptions the standard golden rule applies that if you behave like an adult you will be treated in kind, likewise if you act like a child.

I've come across my fair share of PvPers and gankers over the years, and while they might not know/remember me I feel like I'm now quite familiar with the who-is-who in the scene, and it's always nice to see some familiar (clown or otherwise) faces now and then. Makes the game feel a bit less sterile and empty and a nice change from the usual timid o7 throwing at each other.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Sounds like you should come racing some time - especially as...


Avoiding those sideways impacts is fun, and there's a tangible progression in that it starts happening less and less.

In my defense, I did try to pull a maneuver that could only be described as similar to the one Maverick pulled in Top Gun, but trying to shoot a bunch of pack-hounds at the same time I was a bit distracted is basically what I'm trying to say

 

[GreySix]

I don't play in Open, simply because I'm annoyed by the presence of other players in this game (don't even care to see their in-game chat transmissions) - purchased it for single-player only. When I want player interaction, I come here to read and post. In game, I want my own story, and I find the NPCs sufficiently immersive.

When I want to deal with other players, I log on to Star Citizen. There, open gameplay is the only choice, at least in the PU.

That stated, if someone does log into Open here in ED, their complaints about negative interactions with other players ring hollow to me.

 

[Havvk]

is it?

Guess you are familiar with one of the most notorious gankers and their major blunder (just replace blunder with the proper F word).
Skip to 8:57 if you dont have time to watch: Thought it was an easy kill, turned out to be a hacker.
The famous last words of someone who just took a beating.
A Fair and square beating from a Mostly Harmless Anaconda while he was streaming.

I almost forgot about this treasure. Oh yes thank you

 

[Havvk]

There is plenty of help to survive in Open, but unfortunately most of it is found out of game. The Discord, here and to some extent Inara all offer tips.

The main issue is that there's nothing in game to point you towards these hubs, overtly, so most (YMMV obvs) players experience with the cutthroat galaxy is via a rebuy screen.

Real world analogies don't work at all because the basic assumptions in RL and in game are wildly different.

In game you are immortal.
In game the consequences are different to RL for murder.

Groundhog Day could be a good analogy in that Phil is immortal and it doesn't take him long to get up to shenanigans.

C&P in game does put people off Open and I totally agree that you can spend a good few hours killing Imperials, and then make your way to Achenar with the blood still fresh on your hands and dock there, but I play the game as it is, not how it should be. There are a million features I would like to see implemented, but as long as there is a Wild West, anything goes Open that is where I will be.

Then explain to us about how Salome isn't dead?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

True , but those who catch and kill all the fish , even the smallest minnow can't claim to be the best fishermen either .

Top tier pvp it is not, it's just killing the little fish sometimes. Then we hear complaints the pool is getting empty

You guys do realize that when I say PvP, I mean legitimate PvP with 2 guys in FDL's or wing fights right?

 

[Havvk]

You guys do realize that when I say PvP, I mean legitimate PvP with 2 guys in FDL's or wing fights right?

Sadly you really don't get that much anymore. All the non-ganker PvPers have gotten bored with 1v1ing each other I bet, by now.