Reduce the number of engineering material types

[Fullo111]

I was using Krait Mk2, but wanted to try combat so I engineered both the Chieftain and the FDL to try them out.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful but you have 3 very good ships already in only a month of playing that you've also engineered them.

It seems to me that you're a little impatient. The engineering is a grind but nowhere as much of a grind than it is to acquire the credits needed to buy those ships as base ships, nevermind the amount of credits needed to A rate all the modules on top assuming that's what you have done.
This game has never allowed anything to be done quickly. Even accessing the engineers is a grind as you not only need to unlock them, you need to get them something special to buy their services.

Credits don't seem to be a problem anymore for new players, it's the long grind that every one here has undertaken to achieve their ideal ship setup that seems to baffle new players.

 

[Northpin]

I wouldn't call engineering the real gameplay of ED

But it is
Unlocking engineers is introducing the player to various activities.

Do people get on ED just to engineer ship after ship after ship without doing anything else?

I have about 35 engineered ships on my XB account
And about 18 on my PC account.

I usually (*) get my materials by running material collection expeditions. Not saying that is good or bad or meta.
But it allows me to keep my materials stash almost full all the time and so i can engineer a ship any time i want.


(*) that does not mean that i ignore that tasty hge that might be in this system i'm just visiting or that if i have a wake scanner i dont use it when departing a station or that i dont pick g4/g5 materials as reward for the missions i run.


So, again, i dont think reducing the number of components and making the blueprints almost all the same would be of any help
You'd still need 10 g5 materials and 10-15 g4 to top a grade 5 blueprint, but using bland and not so realistic blueprints.

 

[Rietz]

But it is
Unlocking engineers is introducing the player to various activities.



I have about 35 engineered ships on my XB account
And about 18 on my PC account.

I usually (*) get my materials by running material collection expeditions. Not saying that is good or bad or meta.
But it allows me to keep my materials stash almost full all the time and so i can engineer a ship any time i want.


(*) that does not mean that i ignore that tasty hge that might be in this system i'm just visiting or that if i have a wake scanner i dont use it when departing a station or that i dont pick g4/g5 materials as reward for the missions i run.


So, again, i dont think reducing the number of components and making the blueprints almost all the same would be of any help
You'd still need 10 g5 materials and 10-15 g4 to top a grade 5 blueprint, but using bland and not so realistic blueprints.

You said it yourself, it's only introducing players to various real activities. In other words, it's just an introduction, and people can still do that without engineering.

The issue isn't about the amount of materials you need to engineer your ships. They can even increase the grind and I wouldn't even care because I've always been a sucker for grind games.
The issue is the huge number of different types of materials that just make many people refuse to even give it a try, for various reasons.
Don't get me wrong, it's fine if you want the game to be complex for your immersion.
But my approach to the immersion is that to reduce the amount of time you have to spend tabbing out of the game using your browser whenever you need to engineer something.
Personally, I find wasting extra time looking at different browser tabs to be much more immersion breaking than some simplified blueprints that I only look at once in a blue moon.

Edit: Unlocking engineers isnt the same as gathering materials. I have nothing against unlocking engineers either. But what's the point of unlocking engineers when people give up before they even try it?

 

[Factabulous]

The issue is the huge number of different types of materials that just make many people refuse to even give it a try, for various reasons.

That's just your opinion - which is a weird one to have given you admit you've not been put off by it.

Personally, I find wasting extra time looking at different browser tabs to be much more immersion breaking than some simplified blueprints that I only look at once in a blue moon.

That's just your choice. I'm sure a lot do it the way I do - build up stores of mats and just engineer without spreadsheets. But I have no proof of that any more than you do

(And those like you who use spreadsheets now will probably continue to even with fewer materials )

 

[Rietz]

That's just your opinion - which is a weird one to have given you admit you've not been put off by it.


That's just your choice. I'm sure a lot do it the way I do - build up stores of mats and just engineer without spreadsheets. But I have no proof of that any more than you do

(And those like you who use spreadsheets now will probably continue to even with fewer materials )

That's my opinion, but not for myself, because I can do it. If you've read my comments, you'd know that it's for people like my friends who quit because engineering got too complicated for them.

And the way you do is also the way I do, but that doesn't change the fact that one of these days, you're gonna run out of 1 or 2 pieces of materials and need to check it again. Your argument is basically "Oh because we're veteran players and we can do it, that means you can also do it easily as new players too".

And yes, I will continue to use my spreadsheets even with fewer materials, but I will spend less time looking at them then, hence the immersion breaking is reduced. It's as simple as 1+1=2.

 

[Fullo111]

That's my opinion, but not for myself, because I can do it. If you've read my comments, you'd know that it's for people like my friends who quit because engineering got too complicated for them.

And the way you do is also the way I do, but that doesn't change the fact that one of these days, you're gonna run out of 1 or 2 pieces of materials and need to check it again. Your argument is basically "Oh because we're veteran players and we can do it, that means you can also do it easily as new players too".

And yes, I will continue to use my spreadsheets even with fewer materials, but I will spend less time looking at them then, hence the immersion breaking is reduced. It's as simple as 1+1=1.

Being English, I have the luxury of it being my native language.
Where are you and your friends from?
I assume that none of the languages that FDev have in the menu are suitable for them?

 

[Rietz]

Being English, I have the luxury of it being my native language.
Where are you and your friends from?
I assume that none of the languages that FDev have in the menu are suitable for them?

We're from Vietnam. I'm more lucky with my family and ended up with an average understanding of English. My friends aren't so lucky so their English is limited to basic conversation.
And sadly no, I don't think Vietnamese is an option in the menu.

 

[Factabulous]

And the way you do is also the way I do, but that doesn't change the fact that one of these days, you're gonna run out of 1 or 2 pieces of materials and need to check it again. Your argument is basically "Oh because we're veteran players and we can do it, that means you can also do it easily as new players too".

Don't understand you - if I run out of mats I see it at the engineers base, go to a trader, trade down to refill the bucket, then do the engineering. No spreadsheets. ofc there is the Inara webpage to find a trader, but the rest is in-game.

And I'm just saying this because - well, 4 ships - and medium ships at that - is not many. You're still learning, and I fully understand that building up stocks of mats takes time. The thing you don't understand is that once you have them you won't care about all this half as much. The majority of demands for change in these forums come from people who are still learning to play, and the majority of responses saying things are ok are from people who have played more. Same as ever, but then you won't know that yet, as you're new

And yes, I will continue to use my spreadsheets even with fewer materials, but I will spend less time looking at them then, hence the immersion breaking is reduced. It's as simple as 1+1=2.

Yup - grinders gonna grind. Of this we are aware

 

[Fullo111]

We're from Vietnam. I'm more lucky with my family and ended up with an average understanding of English. My friends aren't so lucky so their English is limited to basic conversation.
And sadly no, I don't think Vietnamese is an option in the menu.

No it isn't unfortunately.
I understand you're concerns but I can't understand how reducing the number of materials would make it any simpler for your friends as the terminology is still technical although there would be less of it.

 

[Rietz]

Don't understand you - if I run out of mats I see it at the engineers base, go to a trader, trade down to refill the bucket, then do the engineering. No spreadsheets. ofc there is the Inara webpage to find a trader, but the rest is in-game.

And I'm just saying this because - well, 4 ships - and medium ships at that - is not many. You're still learning, and I fully understand that building up stocks of mats takes time. The thing you don't understand is that once you have them you won't care about all this half as much. The majority of demands for change in these forums come from people who are still learning to play, and the majority of responses saying things are ok are from people who have played more. Same as ever, but then you won't know that yet, as you're new


Yup - grinders gonna grind. Of this we are aware

Oh yes, I'm sure everyone is a genius like you who remember which material from which blueprint is from which trader. And everyone have extra time to make a round trip to the engineer and back, empty handed, to visit the trader.

And it's weird that you think it's cool or something to brag about having more ships than you can use? I personally don't have the habit of buy ships that I'm never gonna use, especially sluggish big ships with limitation on landing platforms. Well, unless they're on discount. In fact, even with 3 fully engineered ships, I only use 1 of them. Having few ships isn't because I'm new, it's because I chose to do so.
Also, since when does big or medium ship a matter of concern when it comes to engineering? It's not like an G8 PP gonna require more material than a G6 one lol

Also, again, you're basically saying because you're veterans and you can do it with no problem, you see no benefit in making it more accessible for new players? Apparently, you give off this vibe that just scream "I'm an elite, this should be hard so fewer people can get access to it and be as elite as I am".

And oh boy, if you think collecting materials like this can be considered as grinding, you're gonna have a bad time playing real grinding games.
Also, wouldnt people like you who fill up their material storage be considered grinders? How is looking at spreadsheets make me a grinder? lol what?

Edit:

No it isn't unfortunately.
I understand you're concerns but I can't understand how reducing the number of materials would make it any simpler for your friends as the terminology is still technical although there would be less of it.

Because they can still understand some English. They got discouraged when they looked at the huge list of material, that's all it is.

 

[Oytis57]

Also, again, you're basically saying because you're veterans and you can do it with no problem, you see no benefit in making it more accessible for new players?

No he's saying that ED is like this but if you like Walt Disney style stuff you can happily have a go at No Man Sky,we have all been new players,if we survived you and your friends can too,if you don't like this stuff go play something else,it's very simple.New players these days have already a lot of goodies and advantages that were not years ago,why you complain?

 

[Rietz]

No he's saying that ED is like this but if you like Walt Disney style stuff you can happily have a go at No Man Sky,we have all been new players,if we survived you and your friends can too,if you don't like this stuff go play something else,it's very simple.New players these days have already a lot of goodies and advantages that were not years ago,why you complain?

To summary, is this the legendary "we suffered through this, so you have to suffer too" attitude?

Jokes aside, the "it was worse than this before" has never been a valid excuse for further improvement. If you have any other proper constructive argument, similar to those that others have brought up, to bring to the table, please do.

 

[Oytis57]

To summary, is this the legendary "we suffered through this, so you have to suffer too" attitude?

Jokes aside, the "it was worse than this before" has never been a valid excuse for further improvement. If you have any other proper constructive argument, similar to those that others have brought up, to bring to the table, please do.

No no suffer at all,but just think about all those flock of newbies who delved into mining made billions,could afford every ship (probably not the ranked ones) ..what did they achieve? Nothing because it was too easy and then they left behind all the rest wich is what really matters,As I said in another answer just make the exchange rate at Material Traders the right way,and spread more the Manufct Mats in all HGEs,just this will change a lot for the better.

 

[Rietz]

No no suffer at all,but just think about all those flock of newbies who delved into mining made billions,could afford every ship (probably not the ranked ones) ..what did they achieve? Nothing because it was too easy and then they left behind all the rest wich is what really matters,As I said in another answer just make the exchange rate at Material Traders the right way,and spread more the Manufct Mats in all HGEs,just this will change a lot for the better.

And mind telling me who those newbies are? It seems like you're making a lot of assumptions here and build a strawman for yourself to argue against lol... And you seem real bitter about newbies making money from mining for some reason?

And as I said, it's not about getting easy materials. It's about making it more appealing to new players instead of repelling them away with fake complexity. How many time do I have to repeat this? All people like you immediately think it's about making the game easy the moment you see the word "reduce". Everyone just freaking out for whatever reason whenever someone mention simplifying or streamlining things lol...

 

[Oytis57]

And mind telling me who those newbies are? It seems like you're making a lot of assumptions here and build a strawman for yourself to argue against lol... And you seem real bitter about newbies making money from mining for some reason?

And as I said, it's not about getting easy materials. It's about making it more appealing to new players instead of repelling them away with fake complexity. How many time do I have to repeat this? All people like you immediately think it's about making the game easy the moment you see the word "reduce". Everyone just freaking out for whatever reason whenever someone mention simplifying or streamlining things lol...

You are repeating yourself over and over....with the same old song,your "appealing" idea is to have easy stuff the easiest way,nobody other than you is freaking out

 

[Rietz]

You are repeating yourself over and over....with the same old song,your "appealing" idea is to have easy stuff the easiest way,nobody other than you is freaking out

Apparently, despite me repeating myself, some people, such as you yourself, still don't get the concept. "Oh no, he said 'reduce', that must means he wants to make the game easier." Bruh...
How about you go back to page 1, and read the comment from Ian Doncaster? Stop jumping at me yelling nonsensical arguments. If you have proper constructive feedback, say it. Otherwise, please move along. As you said it yourself, if you don't like this suggestion, go read something else.

 

[Pat Healy]

Everyone just freaking out for whatever reason whenever someone mention simplifying or streamlining things lol...

I don't see anyone freaking out. I see you - a month into the game - insisting on changes, more experienced players trying to help you understand why those aren't the right changes, and you not doing much in the way of listening.

You're a month in and have engineered three ships. Kudos to you, because I think that's sincerely amazing. My head would explode with that much grind in a month. I've been playing for years and have finished engineering 2 ships. Of course you and your friends have some issues related to mats gathering grind...you're doing it all in a month!!!

The problem is not that there are too many material types. The problem is that players want the G5 godship NOW, so they grind to get it done, and it's a horrendous gameplay experience. It's worse than a job. I did the same thing at first, and promptly quit the game for a year. When I came back, someone on this forum explained to me that engineering and mats gathering are FAR better experienced in the course of just playing the game. Explore, do some missions, haul some passengers, kill some pirates, harvest some mats, go see the engineer, tinker with your ship, go play some more. You'll find that your materials bins fill up more or less by accident, and it's much more fun this way.

Then there's the randomness of the efficiency of engineering meaning the cost in materials will vary from person to person depending on the luck of the RNG. That's not how engineering works in the real world.

100% agree with this. The idea of an engineering "roll" is an oxymoron. My son is an engineer. Works on stuff for the space program, actually. I'll have to ask him if they got a good "roll" on the last satellite they launched.

 

[Rietz]

I don't see anyone freaking out. I see you - a month into the game - insisting on changes, more experienced players trying to help you understand why those aren't the right changes, and you not doing much in the way of listening.

You're a month in and have engineered three ships. Kudos to you, because I think that's sincerely amazing. My head would explode with that much grind in a month. I've been playing for years and have finished engineering 2 ships. Of course you and your friends have some issues related to mats gathering grind...you're doing it all in a month!!!

The problem is not that there are too many material types. The problem is that players want the G5 godship NOW, so they grind to get it done, and it's a horrendous gameplay experience. It's worse than a job. I did the same thing at first, and promptly quit the game for a year. When I came back, someone on this forum explained to me that engineering and mats gathering are FAR better experienced in the course of just playing the game. Explore, do some missions, haul some passengers, kill some pirates, harvest some mats, go see the engineer, tinker with your ship, go play some more. You'll find that your materials bins fill up more or less by accident, and it's much more fun this way.



100% agree with this. The idea of an engineering "roll" is an oxymoron. My son is an engineer. Works on stuff for the space program, actually. I'll have to ask him if they got a good "roll" on the last satellite they launched.

No one freaking out? Read the comments from Oytis57 and Factabulous. So far they've provided zero constructive argument and nothing but condescending tone of full of elitism. Aside from those 2, most of the comments, while not the most peaceful, had been constructive with proper reasoning to back it up.

That aside, you are not getting the point of the suggestion. Reducing the number of types doesn't mean reducing the amount required. If anything, it increases the grind. I have no issue with the actual mat gathering grind, but my friends, who isn't very fluent at english are too scared to actually start the grind because it looks way too complicated from a newbie's perspective.

It's not about how fast you get G5 ships done. As long as they reduce the amount of material types, they can double, triple, or even quadruple the amount of material required to G5 a ship and I wouldn't even bat an eye.

It's about when new people looks at the huge list of materials, they don't even want to get started. That's the issue. To get people to think "I can do it" instead of "I can't be bothered with it".

 

[Pat Healy]

It's about when new people looks at the huge list of materials, they don't even want to get started. That's the issue. To get people to think "I can do it" instead of "I can't be bothered with it".

Why start by looking at the huge list of materials? Why not start by experiencing the many aspects of the game where mats gathering is incidental?

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

No one freaking out? Read the comments from Oytis57 and Factabulous. So far they've provided zero constructive argument and nothing but condescending tone of full of elitism. Aside from those 2, most of the comments, while not the most peaceful, had been constructive with proper reasoning to back it up.

That aside, you are not getting the point of the suggestion. Reducing the number of types doesn't mean reducing the amount required. If anything, it increases the grind. I have no issue with the actual mat gathering grind, but my friends, who isn't very fluent at english are too scared to actually start the grind because it looks way too complicated from a newbie's perspective.

It's not about how fast you get G5 ships done. As long as they reduce the amount of material types, they can double, triple, or even quadruple the amount of material required to G5 a ship and I wouldn't even bat an eye.

It's about when new people looks at the huge list of materials, they don't even want to get started. That's the issue. To get people to think "I can do it" instead of "I can't be bothered with it".

It really isn't as complicated as it looks. I promise. If you just take the time to regularly collect materials from your kills and scan as many things as you can you will accumulate a huge chunk of the matt's you need before you even start the grind.