General Remove private Lobby and single Player

[gorankar]

So, are we going to get rid of the block list as well? Because the people that don't want to play with PvPers will just block anyone that looks sideways at them. In other words, the people living the PvP/Pirate/Ganker life are going to see fewer and fewer players as they would make their way onto ever more blocklists if the solo/pg types were forced to into open. This would interfere more and more with their ability to instance with other players.

Could the PvP types finally learn to accept that some people just do not want to play with them? And that luckily, Fdev has made it so these people that don't want to play with them, don't have to. I sort of get the PvP types don't seem to actually "get", or just guess wrongly, why other players would prefer not to play with them. They always seem so perplexed that these people don't want to play with them. However, they must have, at a minimum, the awareness to realize these players are avoiding playing with them intentionally. Often times, them in particular.

PvP bores me. It's not even really about risk. Unless they catch me AFK or totally pants down, they are going to see me high wake after they get a few shots in. Then they will never see me again. I block anyone that interdicts me. I am interested in coop play when I am in open, not vs play. I don't want to play with you. That's it, that's that. You can't make me, so you try to get fdev to make me play with you? Yeah, not happening, and why would you even want that? Is getting in the way of some else's fun really that satisfying?

 

[T200]

So, are we going to get rid of the block list as well? Because the people that don't want to play with PvPers will just block anyone that looks sideways at them. In other words, the people living the PvP/Pirate/Ganker life are going to see fewer and fewer players as they would make their way onto ever more blocklists if the solo/pg types were forced to into open. This would interfere more and more with their ability to instance with other players.

Could the PvP types finally learn to accept that some people just do not want to play with them? And that luckily, Fdev has made it so these people that don't want to play with them, don't have to. I sort of get the PvP types don't seem to actually "get", or just guess wrongly, why other players would prefer not to play with them. They always seem so perplexed that these people don't want to play with them. However, they must have, at a minimum, the awareness to realize these players are avoiding playing with them intentionally. Often times, them in particular.

From the perspective of the PVP'ers what's the point of Open or anything like BGS or PP if they don't provide incentives to play on open, and be subject to Player-controlled pirates/privateers?

I mean like what's the point of a shared universe in general and what benefits does it provide versus a more fragmented, private server/solo only solution?

 

[Brrokk]

So, are we going to get rid of the block list as well? Because the people that don't want to play with PvPers will just block anyone that looks sideways at them. In other words, the people living the PvP/Pirate/Ganker life are going to see fewer and fewer players as they would make their way onto ever more blocklists if the solo/pg types were forced to into open. This would interfere more and more with their ability to instance with other players.

Could the PvP types finally learn to accept that some people just do not want to play with them? And that luckily, Fdev has made it so these people that don't want to play with them, don't have to. I sort of get the PvP types don't seem to actually "get", or just guess wrongly, why other players would prefer not to play with them. They always seem so perplexed that these people don't want to play with them. However, they must have, at a minimum, the awareness to realize these players are avoiding playing with them intentionally. Often times, them in particular.

PvP bores me. It's not even really about risk. Unless they catch me AFK or totally pants down, they are going to see me high wake after they get a few shots in. Then they will never see me again. I block anyone that interdicts me. I am interested in coop play when I am in open, not vs play. I don't want to play with you. That's it, that's that. You can't make me, so you try to get fdev to make me play with you? Yeah, not happening, and why would you even want that? Is getting in the way of some else's fun really that satisfying?

I would probably stop playing if the game only had Open; I think choice of interaction level is one of this game's great features. At the very least, I'd fly the E-rated Sidewinder "Griefer Blocker" around a lot more for blocklist maintenance in busy systems.

 

[gorankar]

From the perspective of the PVP'ers what's the point of Open or anything like BGS or PP if they don't provide incentives to play on open, and be subject to Player-controlled pirates/privateers?

I mean like what's the point of a shared universe in general and what benefits does it provide versus a more fragmented, private server/solo only solution?

Past having fun, there isn't a point, and there never was. You have fun doing something, or you don't. Many find PvPers to be an annoying inconvenience better just avoided by choosing the appropriate mode. So, there are really no incentives that will draw most of the Solo/PG players into open if they don't find it fun. If there was, we would not be discussing getting rid of the other modes, and getting rid of block so the PvPers could have some more victims.

Why can't PvPers just play with each other and leave the people that don't want to play with them alone? "But muh BGS an PP!!!!" is a false song and everyone knows it. PP and BGS conflicts are won by the side that best uses the manhours that group has available to fill the correct buckets to achieve their goals. If you don't have the manhours available or the strategy to win BGS/PP conflicts in solo/pg, you most likely will not suddenly start to win just because the opposition from your time zone and on your platform show up in open.

 

[T200]

Why can't PvPers just play with each other and leave the people that don't want to play with them alone?

because to the pvpers that isn't the game, you shouldn't get to be left alone, that's the entire point of open, it's open. To put it simply they see "single shared universe" and think Emergent gameplay ala EVE, which is destroyed if you can simply exert the same amount of influence changes or profit

I'm asking "what does a single shared universe do what couldn't be done by a more fragmented and user/community hosted series of smaller and perhaps more personalized set of universes".. why must it be a shared universe? I'm inverting the OP's request in this by asking "what's the point of open and a shared universe?"

 

[Alaska Sædelære]

Choices are driven by a simple ratio of return/time played, so it's an opportunistic choice (it's a game so the morale/ethics whatever is not a pixel goes down to the flush...), [...}
It is a quite straightforward valuation.

NOPE, for the umpteenth repetition. It's not just about the quantity of time, but its quality. This doesn't seem to enter the skulls of those who keep harping on it. Well, it won't change a thing, we continue to choose with whom to play or not. You seem to enjoy wasting your time here. (Did I say already that the same fruitless discussion exists in other games? In one I know it was the pvpers' side the developer decided to cut back after it got out of hand. There you are.)

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

More meaningful for you? For most players who don't PvP (the majority of players remember) they either stop playing that aspect of the game altogether, thus reducing your targets anyway so all that was for nothing, or just go and play another game altogether, thus reducing the total number of players playing the game and increasing the "DOOOOOM" threads to an infinite number until that's all we get on the forums!

Ferrying 300000 tons in solo with no interaction, no challenge, and no resistance in order to win a conflict in an overtly combat-characterised game feature doesn't sound like something that should have much meaning, or even make sense, to anyone, participating or not. If FDev want to make a game that's not internally consistent because that's where the arx is, then well, more power to them I guess. Note before you go too far along the route of accusing me of wanting more targets, that the suggestion I'm highlighting in this instance isn't OO. The fact that I want OO but have made this suggestion is I guess another debunk of the myth that arguments for OO are about masturbatory slaughter of the weak.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Ferrying 300000 tons in solo with no interaction, no challenge, and no resistance in order to win a conflict in an overtly combat-characterised game feature doesn't sound like something that should have much meaning, or even make sense, to anyone, participating or not. If FDev want to make a game that's not internally consistent because that's where the arx is, then well, more power to them I guess. Note before you go too far along the route of accusing me of wanting more targets, that the suggestion I'm highlighting in this instance isn't OO. The fact that I want OO but have made this suggestion is I guess another debunk of the myth that arguments for OO are about masturbatory slaughter of the weak.

As I continually say- in Powerplay either NPCs act like players and are far more aggressive to stop more people doing this, or players become NPCs.

If none of this happens, Powerplay is an open ended haul race- and look how popular those are with CGs, even with massive credit payouts.

 

[Brrokk]

Past having fun, there isn't a point, and there never was. You have fun doing something, or you don't. Many find PvPers to be an annoying inconvenience better just avoided by choosing the appropriate mode. So, there are really no incentives that will draw most of the Solo/PG players into open if they don't find it fun. If there was, we would not be discussing getting rid of the other modes, and getting rid of block so the PvPers could have some more victims.

Why can't PvPers just play with each other and leave the people that don't want to play with them alone? "But muh BGS an PP!!!!" is a false song and everyone knows it. PP and BGS conflicts are won by the side that best uses the manhours that group has available to fill the correct buckets to achieve their goals. If you don't have the manhours available or the strategy to win BGS/PP conflicts in solo/pg, you most likely will not suddenly start to win just because the opposition from your time zone and on your platform show up in open.

Yes, we do know it's a false song.

I don't speak for PP, but every time someone invokes "influencing BGS" in this discussion, they're seen to be either clueless about BGS or dishonest. Neither alternative is going to win any respect.

 

[Robert Maynard]

because to the pvpers that isn't the game, you shouldn't get to be left alone, that's the entire point of open, it's open. To put it simply they see "single shared universe" and think Emergent gameplay ala EVE, which is destroyed if you can simply exert the same amount of influence changes or profit

What they see and what they bought are, in that case, two different things.

I'm asking "what does a single shared universe do what couldn't be done by a more fragmented and user/community hosted series of smaller and perhaps more personalized set of universes".. why must it be a shared universe? I'm inverting the OP's request in this by asking "what's the point of open and a shared universe?"

Something uncommon, possibly unique - in that all players affect the same shared galaxy regardless of game platform or game mode.

That's not an inversion of the OP's proposal - it's another means of achieving the same end, depending on implementation.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Yep, tedious but not "unmanageable" to the point "a lot of players" will stop playing because of that.

Point is that, everybody else than PVP'ers take a hit, without basically ANY positive aspects. Lets think how this works from explorer's viewpoint. I'd need to carry various unneeded engineered modules to up survivability of my ship, each of them eating my jumprange. And even zero point something less jump range multiplies fast on long trips. Now I'd need those modules for something 0.1-1 percent of my time. There aren't any gankers on deep black. But I cannot ditch those modules, I need to carry them for whole trip. Now exactly what positive I'll get from Open only? Why should I support it? And ED is already on some aspects pretty tedious game, it'll all add up. And at some point people decide, yeah this is not fun anymore. Each person of course have their own limit, but I do think Open only would be for many that straw that will break camels back.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Point is that, everybody else than PVP'ers take a hit, without basically ANY positive aspects.

Those who insist that all players should play in Open to affect particular game features offer nothing other than the subjective opinion that it would be better for them. There is an apparent disregard for those who don't agree that such a change would constitute an improvement to their gameplay - noting that we all bought the same tri-modal shared galaxy game even if some can't accept that players don't need to play with them to affect game features. It is this disregard that makes the desires of those proposing PvP-gating of game features to be just as easily disregarded.

 

[varonica]

because to the pvpers that isn't the game, you shouldn't get to be left alone, that's the entire point of open, it's open. To put it simply they see "single shared universe" and think Emergent gameplay ala EVE, which is destroyed if you can simply exert the same amount of influence changes or profit

And for those of us who carefully examined games and game features and game play of a number of space based games to decide which one to play, and specifically ruled out EVE for that very "feature" then get EVE game play forced on us whether we like it or not? Surely the people who didn't do the required research and purchased a game that doesn't play the way they want should either accept that fact, or go and play a game that does play the way they want.

 

[Robert Maynard]

And for those of us who carefully examined games and game features and game play of a number of space based games to decide which one to play, and specifically ruled out EVE for that very "feature" then get EVE game play forced on us whether we like it or not? Surely the people who didn't do the required research and purchased a game that doesn't play the way they want should either accept that fact, or go and play a game that does play the way they want.

It has been obvious for years that some of those who bought the game for what it is not, rather than what it is, expect it to be changed for all players to suit their preference - noting that we all bought the game on the same terms and not all players want the same things.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Anyway, we can probably agree that proponents of both sides have presented their points of view on the topic. We both know that the final decision is on Frontier, so there's little reason keep this going. If Frontier wants to see what players think about this, there is enough material for them to go through already on these 35 pages.

And in the bazillion other threads on the topic that have been made over the years, and these threads never stop (look, this was posted on page 35 and we are now on page 43).

That's why we call them Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

Years of debate on the topic and FD have still shown no signs of removing PG/solo (understandable since it would be effective suicide for the game). Yet some people still think if they keep posting about it and demanding it, FD will remove the modes.

 

[varonica]

It has been obvious for years that some of those who bought the game for what it is not, rather than what it is, expect it to be changed for all players to suit their preference - noting that we all bought the game on the same terms and not all players want the same things.

I've noticed, many times I have seen, "I used to play EVE and they did this in EVE, why can't we do it in ED?" The second word is usually the one I take notice of, if they used to play EVE but aren't now then maybe EVE didn't have what it takes to keep them as a player, and making ED just like EVE means some other game will eventually get a new player who will complain because the devs don't do this like EVE and ED.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I've noticed, many times I have seen, "I used to play EVE and they did this in EVE, why can't we do it in ED?" The second word is usually the one I take notice of, if they used to play EVE but aren't now then maybe EVE didn't have what it takes to keep them as a player, and making ED just like EVE means some other game will eventually get a new player who will complain because the devs don't do this like EVE and ED.

Frontier know that all players bought the game "as it is" and can only speculate as to how existing players would view changes that would fundamentally change that (and guess at how many new players may buy the game following such changes).

 

[Brrokk]

And in the bazillion other threads on the topic that have been made over the years, and these threads never stop (look, this was posted on page 35 and we are now on page 43).

That's why we call them Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

Years of debate on the topic and FD have still shown no signs of removing PG/solo (understandable since it would be effective suicide for the game). Yet some people still think if they keep posting about it and demanding it, FD will remove the modes.

Yes, it's easy to check out. I've done it lots of times.

 

[CMDR Correa]

Past having fun, there isn't a point, and there never was. You have fun doing something, or you don't. Many find PvPers to be an annoying inconvenience better just avoided by choosing the appropriate mode. So, there are really no incentives that will draw most of the Solo/PG players into open if they don't find it fun. If there was, we would not be discussing getting rid of the other modes, and getting rid of block so the PvPers could have some more victims.

Why can't PvPers just play with each other and leave the people that don't want to play with them alone? "But muh BGS an PP!!!!" is a false song and everyone knows it. PP and BGS conflicts are won by the side that best uses the manhours that group has available to fill the correct buckets to achieve their goals. If you don't have the manhours available or the strategy to win BGS/PP conflicts in solo/pg, you most likely will not suddenly start to win just because the opposition from your time zone and on your platform show up in open.

I'll say this though: Open in Elite is just a version of Solo with people that might be inconvenient.

 

[Rebel Yell]

....... and whatever happened to Smiling Dog Crew?

I miss them .