Rift Judder and FPS discussion thread.

[robdood]

You'd be wrong. This is optimization issues shining through. A lot of people try the rift out in open space and think "oh, this is a amazing!" and believe there are no issues. They they dock, or go to a resource extraction site and it turns in to a slideshow.

The biggest detractor I've seen to performance so far is shadows. Any place which has a lot of them is going to really hurt your framerate. Turning shadows off will have a dramatic improvement.

Don't agree at all. On my i7 4770k and gtx 970, I see the following:

On auto-detected setting by the game (ultra preset) I can play the tutorial missions in the asteroids without any judder.

Go to an in-game extraction zone online, it is pretty juddery. Change settings to low preset. No noticeable difference made to framerate / juddering.

Play online, solo. Slightly better framerate, but still not as smooth as the tutorial is.

There's more to it than just graphics grunt, that's for sure.

 

[mickeeie mouse]

cobra and stutter??

hello again folks, me again

right, after a couple of weeks using my new gtx 970, i was rather underwhelmed with its performance in elite using the rift, i was hoping to run 2560x1440p@75fps, but i was seeing FPS in some docks as low as 45fps, so iv been running at 1080p with high settings, then i found myself having to lower these settings to the same as or lower than my old hd7970 after entering gorbachevs dock in sol(yes, i know its a heavy gpu load in here now)

however, whilst there, i bought a sidewinder for a laugh, and couldnt believe my eyes when it spawned and i went from 50fps in hanger(cobra mk3) to 75fps in same hanger! infact, the fps only dipped to 65 the whole time in the dock, so i then purchased an eagle, same again, good high FPS, only dipping into the med/high 60s in same dock, which is odd for both as they have more glass which leaves more of the station viewable at any given time......

so my question is, whats causing the cobra to be laggy?? does anyone else see this??

i havnt had chance to test the bigger ships, iv got an asp stashed somewhere but im too tired to go get it right now

can anyone else comment on the bigger ships?? type 6/7? asp? conda? i have flown the type 6 and 7 + asp in the rift but it was with my hd7970 @1080p

on a side not, both eagle and sidewinder are pretty epic in the rift, just wish they had more going for them other than a good turning circle

MM

 

[dementia]

hello again folks, me again

right, after a couple of weeks using my new gtx 970, i was rather underwhelmed with its performance in elite using the rift, i was hoping to run 2560x1440p@75fps, but i was seeing FPS in some docks as low as 45fps, so iv been running at 1080p with high settings, then i found myself having to lower these settings to the same as or lower than my old hd7970 after entering gorbachevs dock in sol(yes, i know its a heavy gpu load in here now)

however, whilst there, i bought a sidewinder for a laugh, and couldnt believe my eyes when it spawned and i went from 50fps in hanger(cobra mk3) to 75fps in same hanger! infact, the fps only dipped to 65 the whole time in the dock, so i then purchased an eagle, same again, good high FPS, only dipping into the med/high 60s in same dock, which is odd for both as they have more glass which leaves more of the station viewable at any given time......

so my question is, whats causing the cobra to be laggy?? does anyone else see this??

i havnt had chance to test the bigger ships, iv got an asp stashed somewhere but im too tired to go get it right now

can anyone else comment on the bigger ships?? type 6/7? asp? conda? i have flown the type 6 and 7 + asp in the rift but it was with my hd7970 @1080p

on a side not, both eagle and sidewinder are pretty epic in the rift, just wish they had more going for them other than a good turning circle

MM

The Eagle is indeed great with the Rift. The cockpit is tight so the UI panels are close. On top of that you have a canopy that gives you a brilliant view (especially when in hyperspace).

 

[keem85]

Extreme judder in war zones and extraction zones, and some stations

I have a really powerful rig, but I get judder as soon as there are other ships nearby.. Even in low-crowded areas. To avoid judder I have to play solo.. It seems that Elite is suffering from bad performance. Is there anyone here with a SLI setup and DK2? Does that kind of setup take away the lag for you?

Watercooled 4770K oc @ 4.5Ghz
12gb ram
780TI

 

[dementia]

Afraid not. I run the OR at max settings on my 2012 iMac (i7 3.6Ghz, 32GB RAM, 680M GFX, Win 7 - boot camped of course) and don't get extreme judder but then again one man's extreme is another man's slight.

 

[Lirezh]

Make a ticket, you can consider making it as unable to play if you want them to look at it.

dementia: go into a resource extraction point and play for half an hour. If you don't get consistent judder after a while report back.

It's a bug in the game engine, it's not related to GPU or CPU. the game seems to introduce quite some lag in some cases during frame times, you would need a very fast rendering to still stay above 75 fps.
You can fix possibly it by a strong GPU, a quad SLI might be able to solve your issues.

I got SLI 980s and also have extreme judder in extration sites after a short while regardless of game settings.

 

[dementia]

Make a ticket, you can consider making it as unable to play if you want them to look at it.

dementia: go into a resource extraction point and play for half an hour. If you don't get consistent judder after a while report back.

It's a bug in the game engine, it's not related to GPU or CPU. the game seems to introduce quite some lag in some cases during frame times, you would need a very fast rendering to still stay above 75 fps.
You can fix possibly it by a strong GPU, a quad SLI might be able to solve your issues.

I got SLI 980s and also have extreme judder in extration sites after a short while regardless of game settings.

Don't get be wrong, I get judder a lot but maybe I'm just used to it having only played ED using my Oculus apart from very early on in the testing and I wasn't really 'playing' it then.

 

[tresch]

I noticed this, too. there's a big difference in frame rate between ships. I feel like there needs to be a serious optimization pass or two on some of the ships, like the Cobra.

 

[keem85]

Make a ticket, you can consider making it as unable to play if you want them to look at it.

dementia: go into a resource extraction point and play for half an hour. If you don't get consistent judder after a while report back.

It's a bug in the game engine, it's not related to GPU or CPU. the game seems to introduce quite some lag in some cases during frame times, you would need a very fast rendering to still stay above 75 fps.
You can fix possibly it by a strong GPU, a quad SLI might be able to solve your issues.

I got SLI 980s and also have extreme judder in extration sites after a short while regardless of game settings.

Ok, this sums it pretty well up actually. That it's not lack of hardware resources, but rather that the game hasn't been fully optimized for VR yet.

 

[Lirezh]

It's not about VR in this case, the problems are the same with 2D.
Just Judder is a VR bug from Oculus, there is no need for judder in general. They implemented something wrong.

On 2D monitors you will have a lower framerate without other problems. You can play at 30 fps without getting sick on 2D just those with weak rigs will have bigger problems.
It's a general game engine problem they have to solve in general. That's why I have a bit hope they will solve it.

 

[Roscoe]

1) You don't have a really powerful rig the main issue will probably be your GPU. A 780 is on the low end of the requirements for a DK2.
2) To eliminate judder switch everything to low or off in the graphics.
3)I'm afraid more objects to render and more action mean more load on the GPU and it if aint up to it you are going to get judder.
4) I have a GTX770 and its smooth even in stations, but I have everything set to low!

 

[rennarda]

It seems all over the place for me on a GTX970. Most of the time it's fine, then I'll get some judder in a station. Then in another station it's like silk. Then I quit the app and see it was only using 60% GPU.

This smells like an optimisation problem for the devs to me - question is whether or not it's a high priority for them. I hope they build against the latest Occulus SDK in the next release...

 

[keem85]

1) You don't have a really powerful rig the main issue will probably be your GPU. A 780 is on the low end of the requirements for a DK2.
2) To eliminate judder switch everything to low or off in the graphics.
3)I'm afraid more objects to render and more action mean more load on the GPU and it if aint up to it you are going to get judder.
4) I have a GTX770 and its smooth even in stations, but I have everything set to low!

You got that wrong. It's 780 TI, and it's on par with the 980 in terms of performance.

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It seems all over the place for me on a GTX970. Most of the time it's fine, then I'll get some judder in a station. Then in another station it's like silk. Then I quit the app and see it was only using 60% GPU.

This smells like an optimisation problem for the devs to me - question is whether or not it's a high priority for them. I hope they build against the latest Occulus SDK in the next release...

Luckily for us the devs are ALWAYS updating with the latest SDK, and they are eager to update VR whenever they can And you got that right that Elite doesn't utilize our rigs very well.. I run other games that has far more details and better graphics than Elite with 75 frames.. Let's hope it gets better soon

 

[Lirezh]

It's not about utilization.
I read on Oculus Forums that Frontier added a frame rate cap into the game. For each object that has to be rendered the max framerate is lowered. Somehow the reason was network performance.
This would fit to my tests, the GPU and CPU settings are irrelevant for perforamnce, once there are enough objects (asteroids, npcs) your framerate will drop. I got it down to around 50 while GPU and CPU were idle.
That is a game breaker for VR, it means as soon as you have plenty of objects to render the judder begins.

 

[Lirezh]

DK2/VR users - help us find judder source please (poll)

As there is no word from Frontier about it and many players have extreme judder in some locations ingame while others have no such problems
I would like to find out the reason.
After weeks of trying and frustration over motion sickness I have some clues.

1. The judder I am suffering does not come from a hardware limitation, I run a clean fresh installed PC with latest drivers.
I have latest I7, 16 gb of ram, only SSDs and an SLI 980 solution.
Monintoring my hardware (cpu and gpu) shows that I have heavy frame rate loss and at the same time heavy GPU utilization loss.
My GPU is essentially idle and CPU similar while framerates go down around 50

2. The judder is not dependend on graphical settings
I made extensive tests (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9P0A11VbAE) and found that the judder is not depending on the graphical settings.
I can play judderfree in stations at 100-140 fps (when vsync off but Oculus rendering on) while having 1440p resolution at ultra settings (shadows low).
When judder happens in RES sites (mainly) then even turning down resolution to 1080p and lowest possible settings, including no sight range and no oculus quality the framerate does NOT move.

3. The judder does not depend on solo or multiplayer mode
Tested both. In solo I had some more sessions without judder but both modes are about the same.
However there was extreme judder when many real players share a star system as well (without a single one in view).
SOLO is technically the same as OPEN, as I understand it SOLO just means that your instance is "locked" to other players. Normally you can share an instance.

4. The best testing place are RES sites with many NPCs around in the middle of the asteroids.
Judder starts once NPCs start to pop up.
So any RES site is a good position to test this issue. Sadly also one of the best locations to hunt for bounties.


Conclusion
I am 100% positive that the frame rate is depending on something else than GPU, MEM, CPU.
The framerate is mainly suffering during RES sites when there are many NPCs around.
The framerate also goes down when there are many players in the star system.
I received a hint on the Oculus developers forums that Elite has an artificial delay during the rendering game loop which increases with object count.

From my point of view this is most likely a network related implementation desaster but I am not completely sure at this point.
It seems many people do not suffer from the judder, I try to pinpoint the cause and hope for enough votes on the poll.
My current guess is that it's EU/US. network limittion and latency during game loop. However it might be OS too.


Voting
Please respond to this thread after voting with a short summary of your setup like mine below:



Location: EU, Austria
OS: Windows 8.1
CPU: I7 4790K
MEM: 16GIG
GPU: 2x 980 GTX SLI
Info: Heavy judder in RES sites with FPS going down to around 55

 

[KospY]

As I have the same problem as the op, just wanted to add my contribution : It do not seem related to the operating system. I'm running Win8.1 and to check I have installed Win7 x64 on another partition : same problem (~55 fps in RES). So it's not an operating system issue, at least for me.

I'm also looking at a network related issue. But I think that will be nice if people add a speed test too. ( http://www.speedtest.net/ )
Here is mine :
View attachment 11974

Other info :
Location: EU, France
OS: Windows 8.1 x64
CPU: Intel core I5 2500k @ 3.30ghz
MEM: 8gb ram @668mhz
GPU: Gainward GeForce GTX 970 Phantom with latest drivers (347.25)
Info: Heavy judder in RES sites with FPS going down to around 55

 

[Lirezh]

speed test is useless
The problem is that Elite has their servers in US and a speed test would be local.
I have 100mbps down and 10mbps up, so it's definitely not a speed issue

However adding NETWORK code into a frame rendering loop is one of the biggest mistakes I can think about in game engine design. If that's really the case.

So far 5/5 votes on EU and judder. I hoped for something else ;/

 

[KospY]

speed test is useless
The problem is that Elite has their servers in US and a speed test would be local.
I have 100mbps down and 10mbps up, so it's definitely not a speed issue

However adding NETWORK code into a frame rendering loop is one of the biggest mistakes I can think about in game engine design. If that's really the case.

So far 5/5 votes on EU and judder. I hoped for something else ;/

You sure that their servers are in US ? Not in UK ?

 

[Cortana]

4770K, GTX970 SLI, 8GB RAM, SSD, 300Mbits Internet.

Everything set on low or off (like shadows) and I still get stuttering in supercruise, at RES and in some stations.

 

[Phier]

Now that I've upgraded to two 980's I only get any sort of issue entering/leaving hyperspace. Everything else has been very smooth and I'm maxed out, with manual set DSR (I can't get anything besides that to work).