Rift Judder and FPS discussion thread.

[sohara]

and wth, enable Vsync? That's likely your problem too, go check the Oculus forums, there are huge threads on why you do not do that in the rift.

AFAIK, that rule only applies if you can't maintain 75fps. In every test that I've carried out to get the performance that I currently enjoy, VSYNC set to ON is the best experience by far.

As for my specs:

Location: UK
OS: Windows 8.1
CPU: I7 5960X @ 4400
MEM: 32Gb
GPU: 2x Asus 'Strix' 980 GTX SLI
HDD: 2x Samsung 850 Pro (Raid 0)
Info: 75fps everywhere. Running at 1440p (custom resolution, not nVidia DSR). Rift on Primary, main monitor OFF.

I still get the pause when jumping systems, but I believe this is due to sending FDEV a crapload of logging information.

 

[robdood]

I do have over 24 gigs of ram total in my PC and run an ramdrive for elite.. maybe the stutter you are getting is data being pulled from the HD?

As I said it is smooth for me everywhere, and yes I have a DK2

you can have 30 fps and if it is smooth it is better then 6000 and it be jerky motions, do not confuse the two.

and wth, enable Vsync? That's likely your problem too, go check the Oculus forums, there are huge threads on why you do not do that in the rift. Remember the screen refreshes left to right as it was designed to be used in a portrait orientation

I run dual 770's

one goes to primary center screen and rift

Second goes to left and right screen in my triple screen set up

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 930 @ 2.80GHz (3985.5 MHz)
Memory: 24568 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 770/PCIe/SSE2

I am also using an older version of the nvidia drivers, the new ones halved my frame rates

I use 344.48.. newest at this time is 347.25

Are you absolutely sure you do not have your cards using adaptive power settings, have windows set to performance mode, or your BIOs settings are throttling something and you are not realizing it, or even have hard drives plugged into slower slots on the mobo?

I know you weren't asking me, but I'm definitely 100% sure. The hiccups I get a momentary most of the time (eg in supercruise as I approach a cluster of planets /stars) or more sustained in other circumstances (eg a busy RES site or busy station). Some scenarios literally seem random in their occurrence; I can be sat in a station happily looking through the menus at 75fps, when suddenly it just goes judder-city (literally only loses a handful of frames, but that's enough..). A few seconds later, just as I'm groaning and wondering what's causing it, it settles right back again. The notion of it being caused by streaming / loading seems the most likely, imo.

I have to play with vsync enabled btw. The tearing is too noticeable for me otherwise and gives me a massive headache. I appreciate that if vsync is disabled, the judder is less apparent, but the frames would still drop all the same.

Point is, the game will run fine in all scenarios 95% of the time, vsynced, on a wide range of hardware. I don't think it's fair (or particularly polite) to dismiss the opinions of others so.. vehemently, when it's most likely a fault with the game's tech.

I'm going to try sticking Elite on my SSD to see if that helps. I'll also try putting up with no vsync to see how much more playable I find the RES spots.

 

[tinimark]

I had a good old play this weekend, first time for a couple of weeks. Had some very strange things happening; loads of judder in random places, sometimes taking up to 20 seconds to enter / exit super cruise, transactions severely lagging and quite a delay when loading the system map.

My system is fast with very quick SSD and never had problems like this before. I even lowered all the video quality settings and turned DSR off.

After that, i thought this must be something to do with internet connection (mine is poor). So i went on to google and searched for speed test and the website took a good 30 - 40 seconds to load. Even google search results were taking a 8 - 9 seconds to display (normally it's instant).

The weird thing is that the speed test came back with 45ms ping, 2mb down 0.5mb up which is also very normal for me...there just seemed to be some sort of network delay. Not had chance to look in to that further, check cabling, routers etc.

My conclusion; judder seems very heavily connected to my computer's ability to send/receive data down the old copper highway.

 

[Essjaythegreat]

Judder must be network related, try running the game on the low gfx option in training mode, there my game play is completely judder free, but when I'm in solo or open play the judder is back, whilst not using the rift I play with full gfx on when using the rift I have to drop the gfx to the low setting as I find that this is the only option that will reduce judder!

 

[Phier]

I had a good old play this weekend, first time for a couple of weeks. Had some very strange things happening; loads of judder in random places, sometimes taking up to 20 seconds to enter / exit super cruise, transactions severely lagging and quite a delay when loading the system map.

My system is fast with very quick SSD and never had problems like this before. I even lowered all the video quality settings and turned DSR off.

After that, i thought this must be something to do with internet connection (mine is poor). So i went on to google and searched for speed test and the website took a good 30 - 40 seconds to load. Even google search results were taking a 8 - 9 seconds to display (normally it's instant).

The weird thing is that the speed test came back with 45ms ping, 2mb down 0.5mb up which is also very normal for me...there just seemed to be some sort of network delay. Not had chance to look in to that further, check cabling, routers etc.

My conclusion; judder seems very heavily connected to my computer's ability to send/receive data down the old copper highway.

There was a server issue this weekend people were complaining about.

 

[tinimark]

There was a server issue this weekend people were complaining about.

That's interesting to hear...thanks for letting me know.

 

[mickeeie mouse]

I do have over 24 gigs of ram total in my PC and run an ramdrive for elite.. maybe the stutter you are getting is data being pulled from the HD?

As I said it is smooth for me everywhere, and yes I have a DK2

you can have 30 fps and if it is smooth it is better then 6000 and it be jerky motions, do not confuse the two.

and wth, enable Vsync? That's likely your problem too, go check the Oculus forums, there are huge threads on why you do not do that in the rift. Remember the screen refreshes left to right as it was designed to be used in a portrait orientation



I run dual 770's

one goes to primary center screen and rift

Second goes to left and right screen in my triple screen set up

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 930 @ 2.80GHz (3985.5 MHz)
Memory: 24568 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 770/PCIe/SSE2

I am also using an older version of the nvidia drivers, the new ones halved my frame rates

I use 344.48.. newest at this time is 347.25

Are you absolutely sure you do not have your cards using adaptive power settings, have windows set to performance mode, or your BIOs settings are throttling something and you are not realizing it, or even have hard drives plugged into slower slots on the mobo?

please do tell where these threads on vsync are located, been trying to disable it for months now with no luck, and 2 hours of trawling through the oculus forum last night nearly sent me over the edge ha

cheers

MM

 

[Lirezh]

I tried disabling vsync on Elite with DK2 and it was a horrible experience, permanent strange stutter like effects.
Framerate skyrocketed up to 140-200.

If the SDK would handle synchronization the framerate would not go beyond 75.

So leave vsync on.

 

[robdood]

please do tell where these threads on vsync are located, been trying to disable it for months now with no luck, and 2 hours of trawling through the oculus forum last night nearly sent me over the edge ha

cheers

MM

Though I'd say you shouldn't disable vsync, you need to force it off through your graphics card control panel.

 

[KospY]

I'm starting to think nobody achieve stable 75 FPS in RES at all, simply because it's a bug in the engine related to npc spawning or something else.
Reports of "smooth everywhere" seem pretty strange and are maybe false / exagerated. For me judder is noticeable even at 70-72 FPS.
No offense, but I think people do not check correctly their FPS, are maybe not sensible to judder, do not know what is RES or do not have the rift...

I do have over 24 gigs of ram total in my PC and run an ramdrive for elite.. maybe the stutter you are getting is data being pulled from the HD?

As I said it is smooth for me everywhere, and yes I have a DK2

you can have 30 fps and if it is smooth it is better then 6000 and it be jerky motions, do not confuse the two.

and wth, enable Vsync? That's likely your problem too, go check the Oculus forums, there are huge threads on why you do not do that in the rift. Remember the screen refreshes left to right as it was designed to be used in a portrait orientation

I run dual 770's

one goes to primary center screen and rift

Second goes to left and right screen in my triple screen set up

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 930 @ 2.80GHz (3985.5 MHz)
Memory: 24568 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 770/PCIe/SSE2

I am also using an older version of the nvidia drivers, the new ones halved my frame rates

I use 344.48.. newest at this time is 347.25

Are you absolutely sure you do not have your cards using adaptive power settings, have windows set to performance mode, or your BIOs settings are throttling something and you are not realizing it, or even have hard drives plugged into slower slots on the mobo?

Please, go to a RES site, wait 2 min, show your FPS with playclaw or something else (ideally with GPU and CPU usage) and provide a screenshot with the contacts page open.

 

[Phier]

Please, go to a RES site, wait 2 min, show your FPS with playclaw or something else (ideally with GPU and CPU usage) and provide a screenshot with the contacts page open.

I drop to a low of about 68fps in a res site in limited testing with Riva Tuner. You are telling me you can SEE a difference in 68fps vrs 75fps? I can't.

 

[robdood]

I'm starting to think nobody achieve stable 75 FPS in RES at all, simply because it's a bug in the engine related to npc spawning or something else.
Reports of "smooth everywhere" seem pretty strange and are maybe false / exagerated. For me judder is noticeable even at 70-72 FPS.
No offense, but I think people do not check correctly their FPS, are maybe not sensible to judder, do not know what is RES or do not have the rift...



Please, go to a RES site, wait 2 min, show your FPS with playclaw or something else (ideally with GPU and CPU usage) and provide a screenshot with the contacts page open.

It's because he plays with vsync disabled. If you play without vsync, when the frames are below 75,you don't get the really bad judder. instead you'll get tearing (at all times with vsync off), which can appear at various places across the display. I did a short test earlier and it's definitely more playable without vsync, though the tearing makes my eyes freak out when I end up with a different image on each eye..


Short version of my test results, at a busy RES:
- SSD made no difference
- vsync on, rough fps on my usual settings 65-75..judder city.
- vsync off, rough fps on same settings, 70-90.. Much smoother but weird tearing gives me a headache after a short while
- Changing settings to low / ultra had a more noticeable difference with vsync disabled, but it was still always under 75 when busy on low/ultra with vsync on or off!

Top tip for those trying to force off vsync through gfx card control panel; make sure you also remove the lines in appconfig.xml for the second / mirror window, if you use it.

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I drop to a low of about 68fps in a res site in limited testing with Riva Tuner. You are telling me you can SEE a difference in 68fps vrs 75fps? I can't.

You can if you play with vsync on!

 

[KospY]

It's because he plays with vsync disabled. If you play without vsync, when the frames are below 75,you don't get the really bad judder. instead you'll get tearing (at all times with vsync off), which can appear at various places across the display. I did a short test earlier and it's definitely more playable without vsync, though the tearing makes my eyes freak out when I end up with a different image on each eye..


Short version of my test results, at a busy RES:
- SSD made no difference
- vsync on, rough fps on my usual settings 65-75..judder city.
- vsync off, rough fps on same settings, 70-90.. Much smoother but weird tearing gives me a headache after a short while
- Changing settings to low / ultra had a more noticeable difference with vsync disabled, but it was still always under 75 when busy on low/ultra with vsync on or off!

Top tip for those trying to force off vsync through gfx card control panel; make sure you also remove the lines in appconfig.xml for the second / mirror window, if you use it.

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You can if you play with vsync on!

Really interesting, I didn't know about this. Just tried with vsync off... and... well, now I have tearing ! It's really worse, and it's all times, even when I have more than 75 FPS.
Seriously, how people can play with vsync off and not notice this ? It's a mess and it give me headcache really fast.

 

[robdood]

Yup. But I'd be willing to bet a part of my reproductive ograns that vsync off is the reason we have so many voters saying 'no judder'.

Guys who don't vsync, put it back on and just play the rest of the game. If you don't see a marked improvement, well.. well I guess then lucky for you.

 

[Spam]

Judder for me in RES is not GPU related.

Just did a quick and dirty test, results from MSI below.

Rig:

Win 7
i7 950 (watercooled but stock clock at mo @ 3.4GHz)
6 Gb RAM
MSI GTX 970
Samsung SSD
X52 Pro
DK2

ED settings:

Standard resolution (no DSR)
Mostly Med/High settings, MSAA on, lighting stuff all off/low.

Basic test run consisted of the following in my Asp in Solo:

1 - Load into Coriolis station. Load up on trade resource.
2 - Undock and jump to new system, 55ls travel
3 - Dock at station (roundy type one) sell/purchase new resources and jump back to 1st system for a 2500 ls travel
4 - Glitch when approaching planetray object(s) (twin gas giants + moons). Dock and sell up. Undock and FSD to
5 - RES zone (lit ring side, not dark side)
6 - Dock and cash in bounties.


Note - my fps is set for a 50 - 80 fps scale, in case you hadnt noticed.

My fps in the RES zone seemed to be a far amount lower than usual, possibly due to the logging? or possibly due to it being rather more populated than normal. I lost count at 25 ships on half zoomed radar.
It remained thouroughly playable throughout and I only noticed the (fairly major) judder when things had clamed down.

The interesting thing here is that my GPU usage sat at about 50% all through the RES zone. I have monitored CPU usage and found it to be rather low but I didnt during this test as I didnt deem it pertinent. I'll re run the RES zone and log CPU stuff to see if that has some increased loads.

Overall, it does judder some, but, for me the game is 100% playable as it stands. I really didnt notice the judder whilst dogfighting. Weird as it was pretty bad once wings level. Crisper visuals wouldn't go amis but Im not greedy. Yet.

 

[dementia]

I too experience judder. It is not improved no matter how low or high I have the GFX settings and it various from ship to ship and where I fly. It is particularly bad in a Cobra but not in a Sidewinder (in the same location) and particularly bad in stations.

I'm on 200Mbps download with 15Mbps upload however that is irrelevant in networking as it will only be as quick as the slowest connection (between you and the server).

I suspect that it is partly to do with the OR drivers and partly to do with ED not being fully optimised for the OR experience (it is after all still an experimental device).

Believe it or not the OR does put quite a strain on your rig and the game as it needs to render 2 screens instead of one (that it would for a monitor) so that is twice the effort per frame straight away. That said the resolution is only 1080p so shouldn't be a problem for most GFX hardware, even the mobile versions (Nvidia 680M etc) and this has been more or less confirmed by the problem not being affected by a change in the GFX quality (up or down).

All that said, the game is 100% playable even with the judder problems as even they are not that bad.

 

[Phier]

You can if you play with vsync on!

I always do.

 

[Lirezh]

Definitely confirmed for me is that it's a game engine bug.
We now have 27 votes, 20 vote for judder and 7 vote for no judder.

The EU/US thing I'd drop atm, a lot more EU people voted so it's not representative atm.

I don't know how those 7 votes come together, if all of them have consistent "no judder" or some were just lucky or didn't realize it (because of general judder all the time due to low GPU for example).

No word from Frontier sadly.

 

[CMDR Holycow]

It's your SLI maybe? I have heard of jittering issues with SLI setups in all kinds of applications. Try running just a single card see if it goes away.

 

[robdood]

Just read the last page or two guys, people playing without vsync don't get judder. They get tearing instead, but it does look a lot smoother with vsync disabled. Try it yourselves!