Seamless planetary landings

[Cthulhus]

For me, before making the planetary landing, they have to finish the game in space.

 

[HenryS]

No offense intended.

None taken.

1. Walking around a station, in and of itself, yawn. Including trips to the virtual pub.
2. Stowing away on someone else's ship always struck me as a griefer's charter.
3. Sub-game FPS in stations or on land (Elite: Big Game Hunter ) doesn't appeal to me, although I accept that down the line it might keep me coming back once I've reached saturation on the space aspect.

SPL don't really add much for me, in that I'd have been happy with the basic FFE level of SPL. However, it does add something for me (new ports, atmosphere combat). And, from the KS campaign, it appears that SPL carries some sort of kudos with people that I don't get, which means more people playing, which is good for me.

It sounds like you're not particularly set on either expansion!

I think we don't yet have a good sense of what the extra gameplay possibilities from walking around will be. Since walking around wasn't in any of the previous games while planetary landings was, the latter is attractive. With what I know at the moment, I think I might want to play planetary landings more than walking around. But that's a different question than which should be done first.

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

I can't think of many things that you'd transport to a space station if you could provide it on the surface.

Space stations have needs too, how about a fresh batch of Remlok survival masks for the dock crew in case of decompression? or those canisters of emergency sealing foam to patch any holes?

In the core systems more than one new pilot is going to crash his ship trying a manual dock so how about alloys to replace the damaged hull plates ?

new uniforms for the stations catering staff would be a fairly regular cargo the citizens on it would need

remember that stations are a habitat in their own right and it's not just planets that will be the consumers of your cargo


i would go on but i have to rush off and make a delivery, just got a call from Leesti and they've run out of loo roll

 

[carlsberg]

has to be space dock interiors first.
it's a much smaller area than a planet so can be done a lot quicker/easier.
it WILL provide a lot more possibilities for player interaction than the initial release, eg. pubs, nightclubs, sports facilities. etc, ie: general player social activities, maybe some arcade machines for little mini-games (or original elite )
it could also include the playable ship interiors, so allows for customization and exploration of your own ship. maybe sabatoge/theft missions on other docked ships etc.

to do planetary landings is a massive undertaking, there would have to be a spectacular amount of variety (of flora and fauna, of technology, of environments, of architecture etc) to stop planets becoming too similar, and thats before even getting to the variety of activities available at varying planets.
to be honest, i think to do the planets properly, they would have to be done as a series of expansion packs. eg tech worlds in one pack, agrarian worlds in one pack. gas giants in one pack etc. maybe alien civilisations would each require their own packs.

 

[Cairo]

I vote for planetary landings, because in my mind it's the logical order of things. I was actually a bit surprised that ED was going to be released without planetary landings (of any kind), as those were part of Frontier and FFE. It makes sense to me that this "missing piece" is added into the game before implementing massively complex features like walking in ships, stations and on planets.

And trust me, those are big ones.

 

[carlsberg]

Cairo, but what's the point of being able to land on a planet if you can't actually do anything once you've landed?
planetary landings without the actual development of the planet itself is a waste of time. and to develop the planet means being able to walk around outside the ship, and that part can be developed and tested much better in the closed environment of the space stations.

 

[Carsten]

Voted ships and station first.
I was actually really surprised to see that the votes were almost 50-50. I was sure planetary landings would have been winning by a large margain.

 

[Comandante]

From a user experience, and development point of view, walking around ships and stations seems the first likely interaction since ships and stations are what are already gauranteed to be in the game (that is, without freedom to walk about).

Planetary landings? I imagine that the initial version would be walking around the colony; leave geographical experiences of complete freedom for walking around until much later in the game, when alien environments can be defined etc. I'll be completely happy in the first release if planets look beautiful but you cannot land on them (like in the original, there's a reason given why this is not allowed).

Give me a station and my ship to explore somewhere down the line and I'll be happy.

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

I'll be completely happy in the first release if planets look beautiful but you cannot land on them (like in the original, there's a reason given why this is not allowed).

the dark wheel explains it best so I'll let Robert Holdstock do the talking

Watching the lush world from his seat at the astrogation console, Alex Ryder expressed an audible sigh of regret that he had not been allowed down to the world itself. Next to him, fingers moving expertly over the keys of the trader's ManOp console, his father grinned. Jason Ryder knew well enough the frustration of only being allowed to observe a rich and fabled world like Lave from orbit. He had been planetside once, an unforgettable experience . . . But the rules and regulations of the Galactic Co-operative of Worlds were strict and sensible. Lave, like any other planet, was not a holiday resort, not a curiosity. It was a living, evolving world, and there were folk down below to whom that world was everything that Old Earth had once been to the Human race. Protection. Mother. Home.

Another time, another year, Alex thought. You earned your visit to Lave, and he had hardly begun his professional life. He still had so much to learn.

 

[Alan the Armadillo]

There are pro's and cons for either being first;

Planetary Landing
Pro's include:
Addtional features when landed on planets can be included.
A richer enviroment for the Elite gamer in general.
A wider mission scope.
Cons:
Not adding much to what has already been done in previous titles.
Once you have seen it will you use it that much without 'out of cockpit' experience.

Out of Cockpit experience (OOCE)
Pro's include:
Addtional features in FP mode can be included.
A richer enviroment between flights.
Something to do on a long journy.
A wider mission scope.
Cons:
Not every player will want to leave the ship.
Once youve explored a few locations will you want to keep getting out your seat.
Being in first person mode doesn't mean you can go round shootin stuff, it might but it also might not (either way wont suit everybody)

impact on the second ep:
If PL is EP1 then EP2 would require the implementing OOCE (out of cockpit experience) in a much wider enviroment

If OOCE is EP1 then EP2 would have to include the OOCE for planets in its pack fragmenting the developement

In conclusion and in my opinion Planet Landing will be first, as a pack it can be completely self contained then the inclusion of OOCE can then be deleloped for the entire game world, either pack can be used without the other.

 

[HenryS]

impact on the second ep:
If PL is EP1 then EP2 would require the implementing OOCE (out of cockpit experience) in a much wider enviroment

If OOCE is EP1 then EP2 would have to include the OOCE for planets in its pack fragmenting the developement

In conclusion and in my opinion Planet Landing will be first, as a pack it can be completely self contained then the inclusion of OOCE can then be deleloped for the entire game world, either pack can be used without the other.

I'm not sure I understand you correctly. You're saying that it is better to develop all of OOCE (walking around) at the same time, rather than having it split into stations/ships first, then expanding to planets?

 

[stephen_usher]

Ships and stations vs. Planetary landings.

Myself, I feel that being able to explore the local station and roam your own ship could be potentially fun.

Just think...

You've made a wodge of cash and would like to change your ship, so you wander over to the second hand ship vendor (one of many?) and have a good look at all the ships on offer. You can examine their hulls in detail and go inside to see how scruffy they are. If you're really rich you may eve be able to go to the main shipyard dealer and order a new ship straight off the production line.

Add in AI (or even human avatar) acting as the ship salesman and it could be quite enjoyable, especially if you could barter or haggle.

While you're having your new ship fitted out you can wander down to "The Zocalo" and browse the goods in the ships, maybe even pick up a Lavian lizard kabab for lunch.

Now, all the technology required to generate all this is a sub-set of that required to create a fullfilling ground-based environment. Hence, it's logical to do this first. Once complete it's a foundation for the spaceport and then the surrounding environs.

 

[Slawkenbergius]

I'll probably be swayed on this by what the devs say is more technically demanding. For the moment, I'm going with walking around on ships and stations, as it doesn't seem the massive hurdle that creating interesting planets for SPL is.

It could also be a lot of fun, if we're allowed to carry weapons and shoot stuff. I'd love to see assassination missions, assaults on military installations, that kind of action movie stuff.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

I'd like the walking around and interiors first, when I land on a planet I want to be able to get out of the ship

 

[Dunk]

the dark wheel explains it best so I'll let Robert Holdstock do the talking ...

Alex Ryder expressed an audible sigh of regret that he had not been allowed down to the world itself.

Heh, using your own argument against you, Alex expressed regret that he couldn't get out and explore. We don't really want players getting frustrated.

For me, this is one of those clear cases of style over substance. People are initially attracted to the nice looking thing, but ultimately they get a lot more from the functionality rich thing.

There will be those who primarily want the exploration and beauty to shine through, but I think most people on the forum seem to want interaction. So, I'm slightly surprised that planetary landings are anywhere near winning this vote, let alone actually winning it (as they currently are).
:S

As for the question about why should goods be sent up to space stations? The answer is simple. A lot of space craft would be purely designed only for space travel. So, you'd have to get the cargo into space for them to get at it.

 

[el_tel]

...grand theft spaceship...

lol

For me, before making the planetary landing, they have to finish the game in space.

The game in space will never be finished, but it must be developed sufficiently far to encourage sales to fund the future expansions

 

[Dunk]

I'll probably be swayed on this by what the devs say is more technically demanding. For the moment, I'm going with walking around on ships and stations, as it doesn't seem the massive hurdle that creating interesting planets for SPL is.

It could also be a lot of fun, if we're allowed to carry weapons and shoot stuff. I'd love to see assassination missions, assaults on military installations, that kind of action movie stuff.

Exactly, and can you imagine if you are in the military, having chased a war criminal to a neutral station and having to apprehend your quarry without the local police getting angry at your methods. I'd love all this to be in the game.

 

[wayne nicoll]

personally i've not voted because i would like to see BOTH implemented at the same time, that way it could all be implemented and mesh a hell of a lot better than if they did each bit seperately, i'm perfectly willing to wait a few extra months (or even a year) for that to happen than see one made before the other, and for both to clash with each other or cause gameplay issues because one set of rules doesnt sit well with the others set!

As you can prob guess, i'm no programmer, but i'd rather they took their time and got it all done properly than if they release two half features that cause more problems than not! because both features will have a lot of the programming of each others parts!

Patience, the core game isn't even made yet!

 

[Zak Gordon]

I'm a massive PL fan (spent a lot of time in Frontier and FFE enjoying all that, it was the 'big shift' in the Elite series for me).

But i voted for walking around on ships and stations. From the sound of what David wants planets to be in Elite: Dangerous, you are just going to need the basis of walking around in interior spaces first (in terms of programing it in the game), before you can fully realise what David hopes to do in terms of Planet Landings (and exploring etc).

So little steps first. My fishing for Merlin Bass can wait

 

[Nushu]

Yes , walking around on ships/stations and planetary landings should definitely come first .

But seriously , I voted for walking around because I usually like to keep the best for last. FD should take as much time as they need to make the planets worth landing on / hovering over.