Seamless planetary landings

[Hamerstein]

Heh to be honest I wish the game had both. However that is an insane amount of work. Well interiors of ships are I don't know about landing on planets. I would think landing on planets would be in the game out of the box but then again I've been waiting well forever for this game.

Didn't Elite Frontier have landing on planets at starbases and cities etc? The game is going to be procedural also correct? So why wouldn't landing on planets be included out of the box for 2014? Evochron Mercenary does this already and it's a 1 man dev team and been around for a while now. Surely 200+ developers can get this working. Hell even interiors of stations and ships.

It looks like there will be a massive surge in procedural space games in the next little while with Infinity, Limit Theory, and Elite all claiming to have it at some point or another. Infinities procedural technology looks to be nothing short of amazing and if the kickstarter ever see's daylight will probably blow us all away. So I don't really see why the grand daddy of procedural tech would be releasing a space game under the same name in 2014 with a dev team of over 200 members and still not have procedural planets.

Station interiors is easy. Walking on stations not so easy. How many stations will we have at launch? Walking inside ships landing on planets is again another story. I only see one or the other working here. Is it even possibly to land on a procedural planet then walk around inside said object? Getting into the technical shiznit on this stuff.

Just seems odd that Elite Dangerous wouldn't have at least the same features and or more than Frontier. I'm hoping it does.

Yes Frontier did have SPL, but it was pretty basic and after you'd done it a few times it became pretty boring.

Evochron does have it - but it's dull and very basic - I'd put it about where Frontier had it 20 odd years ago. Josh Parnell (Limit Theory) very wisely said that SPL wasn't on the agenda for his game.

FD want to do SPL properly this time (multiple cities, decent terrain features, flora, animals, dinosaurs, dragons, big tentacly things from the deep...ok I may have invented a few of those fauna...), so we don't just look at it once, think "oh cool" and never do it again. That's why it's not there for release - it is going to take some work, but I expect it to be amazing when it's done (and even more amazing once EVA is in as well).

 

[Malicar]

Yes Frontier did have SPL, but it was pretty basic and after you'd done it a few times it became pretty boring.

Evochron does have it - but it's dull and very basic - I'd put it about where Frontier had it 20 odd years ago. Josh Parnell (Limit Theory) very wisely said that SPL wasn't on the agenda for his game.

FD want to do SPL properly this time (multiple cities, decent terrain features, flora, animals, dinosaurs, dragons, big tentacly things from the deep...ok I may have invented a few of those fauna...), so we don't just look at it once, think "oh cool" and never do it again. That's why it's not there for release - it is going to take some work, but I expect it to be amazing when it's done (and even more amazing once EVA is in as well).

Have you seen the latest video for LT? It shows landing on anything is now possible in that game. You can even land on asteroids etc. I would think that would be standard in a game like this. I know we have all been playing crappy space games for years now but it's time for that to change. I don't want to wait for 2014 only to wait until 2016 for this to happen.

Have you seen the engines that are floating around out there now? Even Space Engine looks good now. Why is it so hard to add procedural planets and land on them? Pioneer has it. Again a 1 man dev team. CCP is almost useless so I won't even bother to comment on why they don't have it. The fact they even made DUST 514 PS3 only shows exactly how stupid they are. I will own a PS4 before Dust 515 even launches.

Anyways yeah I just don't see how landing on planets can be omitted for release. Just doesn't make sense with the name Elite on it. Hopefully that will change officially. I mean if it's that hard to do then go and hire the Infinity devs and make it happen. I'm so tired of waiting for these games and now you tell me I have to buy it then wait some more. Not good.

 

[Hamerstein]

Have you seen the latest video for LT? It shows landing on anything is now possible in that game. You can even land on asteroids etc. I would think that would be standard in a game like this. I know we have all been playing crappy space games for years now but it's time for that to change. I don't want to wait for 2014 only to wait until 2016 for this to happen.

Have you seen the engines that are floating around out there now? Even Space Engine looks good now. Why is it so hard to add procedural planets and land on them? Pioneer has it. Again a 1 man dev team. CCP is almost useless so I won't even bother to comment on why they don't have it. The fact they even made DUST 514 PS3 only shows exactly how stupid they are. I will own a PS4 before Dust 515 even launches.

Anyways yeah I just don't see how landing on planets can be omitted for release. Just doesn't make sense with the name Elite on it. Hopefully that will change officially. I mean if it's that hard to do then go and hire the Infinity devs and make it happen. I'm so tired of waiting for these games and now you tell me I have to buy it then wait some more. Not good.

I wouldn't mind a link to SPL for LT if you have one, I'm a backer for that and I haven't seen an update for SPL (pretty sure Josh would have put one out there).

DB said that producing the procedurals and the landscapes for planetary surfaces would be very straightforward, but that they didn't want ED SPL to be a half done job - hence all the extra content that you could interact with, and needing the time to do it properly. I appreciate your frustration with not getting it on release (I'm sure you're not alone) but I think it'll be worth the wait.

PS - Elite didn't have planetary landings

 

[StarTux]

Have you seen the latest video for LT? It shows landing on anything is now possible in that game. You can even land on asteroids etc. I would think that would be standard in a game like this. I know we have all been playing crappy space games for years now but it's time for that to change. I don't want to wait for 2014 only to wait until 2016 for this to happen.

Have you seen the engines that are floating around out there now? Even Space Engine looks good now. Why is it so hard to add procedural planets and land on them? Pioneer has it. Again a 1 man dev team. CCP is almost useless so I won't even bother to comment on why they don't have it. The fact they even made DUST 514 PS3 only shows exactly how stupid they are. I will own a PS4 before Dust 515 even launches.

Anyways yeah I just don't see how landing on planets can be omitted for release. Just doesn't make sense with the name Elite on it. Hopefully that will change officially. I mean if it's that hard to do then go and hire the Infinity devs and make it happen. I'm so tired of waiting for these games and now you tell me I have to buy it then wait some more. Not good.

Its not hard to add them, even David stated that, but its much harder to make them useful and a worthwhile addition which is actually the biggest criticisms of SPL's. On the most basic level, why land on a planet when you can do all the necessary things in space?

@Robbie What you're looking for is in this video:

Development Plan

No point releasing something which resembles one man indie teams, as I am sure most expect more.

 

[HenryS]

I think the poll description above should be renamed to "seamless planetary landing."

Sorry, I thought it was a given. Some sort of fade out/in loading screen breaks immersion to such an extent that I can't imagine any game seriously considering it. What happens when you're chasing someone from the ground out into space?

 

[Robbie]

<snip>

@Robbie What you're looking for is in this video:

Development Plan

I've already seen that video, and David says nothing about seamless planetary landings. For all we know they may still have some kind of loading screen - something akin to passing through a hazy cloud affect perhaps - as the transition between space and a planet's surface.

Another question that needs to be asked: Why can't seamless landings be implemented for things like asteroids and moon-like planets at game release anyway? I mean those can be produced procedurally with height maps very simply. No fancy details for those kinds of celestial objects are needed, beside those objects look boring in real life anyway

Having even this kind of SPL would to some extent appease the Frontier fans here that want this feature included at game start, happy to know that they can at least descend to some planetary surface and land there.

 

[HenryS]

Another question that needs to be asked: Why can't seamless landings be implemented for things like asteroids and moon-like planets at game release anyway? I mean those can be produced procedurally with height maps very simply. No fancy details for those kinds of celestial objects are needed, beside those objects look boring in real life anyway

Perhaps the question is whether or not you'd like to wait another month or so to have landings on moons. Or would you prefer to start playing without it and then have an update after a month that introduces it?

 

[Robbie]

Sorry, I thought it was a given. Some sort of fade out/in loading screen breaks immersion to such an extent that I can't imagine any game seriously considering it. What happens when you're chasing someone from the ground out into space?

Actually I didn't think it was a given. Perhaps that's why you called it "planetary landings" just to be on the safe side

 

[intrepidis]

There aren't many extra gameplay features that can come from planetary landings alone, but walking around your ship, other ships and space stations (as well as walking on planets) can add many juicy scenarios.

 

[Bromley86]

I've already seen that video, and David says nothing about seamless planetary landings. For all we know they may still have some kind of loading screen

Ah, I see. I'm fairly certain that in all the commenting around the KS it was confirmed as seamless, but it probably wouldn't have been an intentional confirmation because I don't think anyone else has expressed the worry that you have.

However, it's reasonable to assume that they'll be seamless IMO. If it's fully navigable below 50km and fully navigable above 50km, why insert a break and loading screen at 50km?

EDIT: Just had a quick look at Reddit (like traveling back to the 90s!). I got bored, but just before I did I saw this, which is indicative of the sort of thing I was referring to (i.e. you can read it to support either position, but I'd contend that the intent behind his statement is obviously pro-seamless).

 

[intrepidis]

it won't seem-less

However, it's reasonable to assume that they'll be seamless IMO.

I agree. DB did say he wanted planets to be done "correctly". He didn't stipulate what that means, but it is a very safe assumption that seamless planetary landings will happen, once the update comes along.

 

[el_tel]

Being able to consider the position of your avatar from the position of your ship as 2 separate things is something that's necessary for both walking around ship/space stations and planetary landings (what's the point of landing somewhere fabulous if you can't get out and look around?)
But what's needed for an immersive experience in a space station is only a SUBSET of what's needed for an immersive planetary landing experience, which is why walking around space station/ship SHOULD come first (regardless of what I'd LIKE to come first).

Here's a non-exhaustive list of things I think could be considered:

Immersive Space Station 'elements'
Docking bays, ships, corridors, other characters, alleyways, arcades, shops, police stations, shady markets, hotels, workshops, naval offices, bars, offices, factories, warehouses, libraries, guilds, mag-lev trains, turbo-lifts, stairways, crawl-ways, machinery areas

Immersive Planetary 'elements'
The above +
Cities, towns, villages, camps, research stations, mining facilities, power stations, airports, spaceports, sea docks, fishing ports, sea resorts, jetties, highways, roads, trails, pathways, bridges, ground vehicles, air vehicles, sea vehicles, undersea vehicles, fields, marshland, parks, nature reserves, wildlife parks, waterfalls, wilderness, deserts, jungles, grasslands, woods, moors, hills, mountains, valleys, crater basins, rifts, ice-caps, seas, rivers, streams, lakes, oceans, ponds, wildlife, plants, sea-life, weather, climate, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis.

 

[StarTux]

I've already seen that video, and David says nothing about seamless planetary landings. For all we know they may still have some kind of loading screen - something akin to passing through a hazy cloud affect perhaps - as the transition between space and a planet's surface.

Ah I see, you're after the word seamless, I am about 80% sure based on all the videos I have seen (including the procedural one) that it will be, indeed I recall Michael mentioning capping the planets so you cannot descend too far during launch, but I have asked anyway .

Your second question has been asked before, not sure I have seen an answer yet though, but it would be great to land on celestial bodies that have no atmospheres.

 

[StarTux]

I've already seen that video, and David says nothing about seamless planetary landings. For all we know they may still have some kind of loading screen - something akin to passing through a hazy cloud affect perhaps - as the transition between space and a planet's surface.

Here you go Robbie

I asked, "@Frontier Will the planetary landings expansion be seamless without any sort of loading screen between Planet and Space? I'm pretty sure it will be based on the videos, but just wanted to make absolutely sure " and got this from Michael, "@ Polaris Penguin (StarTux) That would be the intention, but let's get the initial release done first
Michael"

 

[Robbie]

Thanks for all the replies to my questions guys.

@StarTux, thanks for taking the time to get a direct answer from Frontier.

But Michael's reply of "would be the intention" is still not a real confirmation IMO, if he had answered "Yes, seamless landings will be implemented later on" then that would have really made me happy.

I'm obviously too demanding in the specifics of my request, there's just no pleasing me

 

[wayne nicoll]

Thanks for all the replies to my questions guys.

@StarTux, thanks for taking the time to get a direct answer from Frontier.

But Michael's reply of "would be the intention" is still not a real confirmation IMO, if he had answered "Yes, seamless landings will be implemented later on" then that would have really made me happy.

I'm obviously too demanding in the specifics of my request, there's just no pleasing me

I agree, but its better for them to be vague than to lie, and get our hopes up!

If for some reason they cant make spl a reality (cant see why not but maybe something to do with the amount of data between server/client transfers, or lag issues), if they had said we WILL have it, there will be a lot of angry people wanting answers, who will say, "you lied to us! you promised us spl!"

If they say we want to do it but we'll have to see if its do'able, then if they find out that they cant, they then havent lied to people, and can say so, and people wont have got their hopes up too much about it!

though they seem confident that they can pull it off so "watch this space!"

 

[AbueloNemesis]

I think walking on ships and stations comes first, besides it will benefit planetary landings for even going out of the ship.

 

[light487]

As much as I would like PL, I also don't want it to be half-baked.. I want it to be as awesome as the rest of the game... PL means a lot of extra development, whereas interiors of existing ships and spaceports is, in my opinion, less work. At the end of the day, I will be spending more time in my ship and visiting spaceports to trade etc than anything else.. whether or not I can actually land on a planet, at this stage, is not as important to me as the immersion that would come from being able to walk around inside my ship and get out and explore a spaceport.

 

[IAM GROOT]

I'd say its pretty obvious, walking has to come first so Planetary Landings would then be designed for you to walk around on said planet!!

 

[Alan the Armadillo]

It looks like there will be a massive surge in procedural space games in the next little while with Infinity, Limit Theory, and Elite all claiming to have it at some point or another. Infinities procedural technology looks to be nothing short of amazing and if the kickstarter ever see's daylight will probably blow us all away. So I don't really see why the grand daddy of procedural tech would be releasing a space game under the same name in 2014 with a dev team of over 200 members and still not have procedural planets.

Infinity looks nothing short of amazing, how it works as a game I dont know but the planet looked real cool in the pre alpha tech demo, I will be keeping an eye out for that one but it's not elite, there were no cities (in the tech demo, I will be taking a closer look at what they have done tho) there were a few things I didn't like (well not so much as dont like more I could pick holes in).

I will probably bypass limit theory although what he has done is also nothing short of amazing, inifinity will probably get a backing from me if only so I get the game to fly around planets with but if Elite turns out to be a gnab gib then infinity will be something to fall back on.

I am totally convinced elite dangerous will be the one for me, its refined and has the game behind the graphics.