Shouldn't dedicated ships make more money on average in comparison to multitasking ships?

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Are there any 'dedicated ' ships in ED? (even the passenger carrying ships had the 'dedicated slots' removed -but are still the only ones that can fit luxury cabin modules)
All can carry guns & armour, or cargo racks, or passenger cabins, even mining kit...
So, yeah... if there was a 'dedicated' ship for a single purpose, maybe they should 🤷‍♂️
 

Felix DiCestria

Felix DiCestria
Rat Catcher said:
Are there any 'dedicated ' ships in ED? (even the passenger carrying ships had the 'dedicated slots' removed -but are still the only ones that can fit luxury cabin modules)
All can carry guns & armour, or cargo racks, or passenger cabins, even mining kit...
So, yeah... if there was a 'dedicated' ship for a single purpose, maybe they should 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
FDL?
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
FPCGlLeviathaN said:
Answer me this: How many of you don't have either a Python or an Anaconda?

I've done some polls in some discord servers / groups / with some friends, and the answers were exactly as I expected, but more one on that in a bit.

The reason I'm asking this is quite simple: Why would I spend more money on a bigger ship if it's worse in almost every scenario if compared to a smaller, cheaper ship?
Why would I spend 84M on a Beluga Liner to do passenger missions and nothing else if I can spend 57M on a Python and do literally everything? Why would I grind Federation ranks to buy a Corvette if an Anaconda is virtually better at everything?

What's the logic for a ship that's made for any activity to be more profitable than a ship made specifically to a certain activity?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying multitask ships are bad, but the opposite - Why are dedicated ships so bad?

If we go back to the Beluga (and the other Saud Kruger ships), their only differential is the option to buy Luxury Cabins, but what's the poinf of Luxury Cabins if I can make twice the money with First / Business Class Cabins in any other ship?
"Yeah but you're supposed to use the Beluga for long distance VIP missions, hence the Luxury Cabins and colossal Fuel Tank. That way you can find pretty systems and get some exploration data" I've done well over a 100 of those. 99.99% of the time the systems are completely default, and the money from system scans are absolutely low. Once again, why would I do that if I can make twice that in the same time while only jumping between 2, 3 systems and not worrying about fuel if I use another ship?

Edit: Polls are not allowed here, but Anaconda and Python were VERY present in each activity.

I mean, you can all see that, right? Python and Anaconda are always up there. That's how good they are at everything.

My solution to this is a very simple one: Classify each ship and give a small bonus when doing missions with the same classification.
Combat with an Anaconda? You can make 50M in an hour. Combat with a Federal Corvette? That's a combat ship, here's a 20% bonus in all your payouts.
Passenger missions with a Python, sure, roughly a million per minute. Wanna use an Orca instead? Makes sense, it's a passenger ship, so you'll get 15% more per passenger.
Maybe take a Beluga and bring some VIPs to see the galaxy, they don't even care where, as long as they see nice things. How rich are they? They're paying 2M for each 10 systems you visit commander. How about a trip to Beagle Point, eh?
You liked the Type-9 Heavy? That's nice, it's a good ship. You even get a 10% bonus for each material mined or commodity traded!

That way everyone that's using the Anaconda or the Python (apparently over 95% of the whole player base) can still get the exact same amount of money they're getting (so no one will complain), and now there's a giant incentive to use something different in order to earn more and discover more stuff in the game.

Sincerely, a player that wants to see more ship diversity around the galaxy.
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I don't think it's accurate to say that Python and Anaconda are multitask ships. Yes, you can build either of them to suit a number of roles, but only one role can be optimised at a time. Once you've done it they only fit the role you built for, and then they become specialist ships.

OK, you can build with one cargo rack, an SRV, an SLF, a few limpets of various kinds etc. to truly multitask, (and it's fun to do such a design), but then they make smaller profit in any given activity, as the thread title expects.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Brrokk said:
OK, you can build with one cargo rack, an SRV, an SLF, a few limpets of various kinds etc. to truly multitask, (and it's fun to do such a design), but then they make usually slightly smaller profit in any given activity, as the thread title expects.
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Addition as above.

The difference between a multitasking ship vs a dedicated trade ship doing trade is stark.
The difference between a multitasking ship vs a dedcated combat ship doing assassinations is very small
The difference between a multitasking ship vs a dedicated salvager is nonexistent.

This might be one of the main points the OP is trying to hit on; if you're comparing a multitasking ship's performance to a dedicated combat vessel, the best ratio of payout to time comes from massacre stacking and/or basic assassinations. These are both very easily done with a multitask ship.

But that multitask ship would be completely out of it's league in a CZ, wing assassination or a Pirate Activity USS. Problem being the point-pay in those higher-challenge is virtually identical or less than their easier counterparts, but since they're much harder targets with substantially higher TTK, the pay is way worse. So there's no arena where an "apex" combat ship can shine as a money spinner except in weaker targets.

FPCGlLeviathaN said:
If we go back to the Beluga (and the other Saud Kruger ships), their only differential is the option to buy Luxury Cabins, but what's the poinf of Luxury Cabins if I can make twice the money with First / Business Class Cabins in any other ship?
Click to expand...
Oh btw... this is less to do with ships, and more to do with the implementation of the activity. Luxury-class missions:

  • Pay marginally more, where they should pay at least an order of magnitude more just for the inconvenience of carrying a luxury-class cabin unique to those ship classes.
  • Are just harder to find generally, let alone fill a full ship of.

This kinda all comes back to extant issues with mission boards/finding the activity you want to do.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Felix DiCestria said:
Would you actually consider using it in such a role?
I've certainly never seen anyone trading in one.
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I have a Krait build which I use for virtually all missions (and I need to tweak it for the new MLCs, as that will greatly improve it's flexibility), with the exception of:
  • Passenger missions
  • (most) cargo delivery/source missions (except where situationally accessible)
  • Wing assassinations

Everything else is on the cards, and performance difference against an "optimal" ship is minimal, arguably non-existent, since the greater flexibility to take other missions of opportunity makes up for any inefficiencies. For example, I might be 5 seconds slower on an assassination, but I can take a half-dozen salvage missions and pick them up as they appear near assassination targets (or fly to the salvage USS and have three assassination targets drop out on me)
 

Felix DiCestria

Felix DiCestria
Jmanis said:
I have a Krait build which I use for virtually all missions (and I need to tweak it for the new MLCs, as that will greatly improve it's flexibility), with the exception of:
  • Passenger missions
  • (most) cargo delivery/source missions (except where situationally accessible)
  • Wing assassinations

Everything else is on the cards, and performance difference against an "optimal" ship is minimal, arguably non-existent, since the greater flexibility to take other missions of opportunity makes up for any inefficiencies. For example, I might be 5 seconds slower on an assassination, but I can take a half-dozen salvage missions and pick them up as they appear near assassination targets (or fly to the salvage USS and have three assassination targets drop out on me)
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Oh I have a Krait armed trader which I do most stuff in, even adapted it for AX.
However the hassle of reconfiguring for each job led to getting a second which is built specifically for AX and far better at it.

Of course I never chased the highest Cr/HR or copied the 'meta'. I built my ships to deal with the jobs I found and the journeys I went on.
As such the game remains fresh for me and there is always more to do.
 
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Northpin

Northpin
Jmanis said:
I have a Krait build which I use for virtually all missions (and I need to tweak it for the new MLCs, as that will greatly improve it's flexibility), with the exception of:
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This Python is quite decent for basically anything except wing assassination missions (edit: and passenger missions, ofc)
192t cargo, 1057MJ using bi-weaves, the 3B collectors is actually the 3B operations (4 liimpets, B-hatchbreaker, B-collector, recon), 2x Srv, Interdictor (this is actually rather obsolete - assassination missions do not require an interdictor anymore) and a SCA for fast drop-off in POIs or at stations.
Weapons can be easily customizable
 

Stelar 7

Stelar 7
Miko said:
This has been a hot topic for years. You could argue the two ships you quote cost a fair amount more than say a Type-7 or 9, but the fact they both outperform them for trade generally when taking defence and combat capability into account, kind of says it all.
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Out perform is not a metric.

The simple fact is we have a budget option and a more expensive option. See this in real life, a C130 and a 747 both can haul cargo. The c130 is less likely to get shot down. It can also be repurposed to drop bombs or shoot artillery.

Now a 747 can carry a really interesting laser or the president of the US... what happens when we do these things? The price goes up, a lot.

So should the more expensive ship be more capable than the less expensive ship?

Seems to me that's an easy yes.
 

Stelar 7

Stelar 7
DemiserofD said:
That's not a particularly good thing. Hitting with the center hardpoints on the clipper is not hard for either charges or Subsurface, and putting the abrasion blasters on the wings of the clipper is actively helpful, as it allows you to curve shots around core fragments without needing to do more than wiggle your wings.
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I mean flavor to taste I suppose. I like it when the mouse widget lines up with what I'm shooting at. Adjusting for a shot in the Python is simple as falling down.

If you like widely spaced hard points so you can shoot arround stuff then you and I have very different goals.
 

DemiserofD

D
Stelar 7 said:
I mean flavor to taste I suppose. I like it when the mouse widget lines up with what I'm shooting at. Adjusting for a shot in the Python is simple as falling down.

If you like widely spaced hard points so you can shoot arround stuff then you and I have very different goals.
Click to expand...

Isn't the goal being best? The Python is definitely easier, but that's the case almost universally. The whole point people are trying to make is that despite being easy, it's not the best.

Get used to using the wings of the clipper and you can make shots a python needs 10 seconds to line up, instantly. And that's not even accounting for the clipper's dramatically better speed and maneuverability.
 

Shir

Shir
Dedicated ships DO make more money, if you use them for the right task. Nothing can make more money than the Beluga can, when doing passenger missions. Nothing can make faster combat money than the Corvette. Cutter for trading, Python for outposts, Vulture for dogfighting, an explorer ship for comfortable exploring, etc..

Then after doing that, you want variety, and you start to wonder what do the other ships do, and how do they fly? I have all ships in game, multiples of ones I like and use for more than one role, and I think ship balancing is one of the strong points is Elite. Most have something unique to offer. Always room for improvement of course..
 

HRDiagram

HRDiagram
DemiserofD said:
Isn't the goal being best? The Python is definitely easier, but that's the case almost universally. The whole point people are trying to make is that despite being easy, it's not the best.

Get used to using the wings of the clipper and you can make shots a python needs 10 seconds to line up, instantly. And that's not even accounting for the clipper's dramatically better speed and maneuverability.
Click to expand...
I have a Python for core mining, and I keep the abrasion blaster off centre on purpose, it makes things much easier, as I don't have to line myself up with a deposit. I don't even need to select the target, I just shoot and hit with minimal/no adjusments. Should I change ship, I would definitely move on to the Clipper because of the greater offset achievable with the abrasion blasters.
 
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