So let me get this straight...

Darth Ender

D
babelfisch said:
How am I objectively wrong? If you prefer to play in VR or on the monitor is an entirely subjective opinion. Objectively one isn't better than the other. I understand why people like to play Elite in VR, but personally I just don't like it.
Objectively it's easier to drink beer, smoke, eat something and talk to your wife (OK, that's probably not a good point) without VR. There are even people who can't play in VR because they get sick or miss the whole experience because of bad eye sight. Graphical quality is generally worse.
Saying that playing in VR is the only proper way of playing is obviously wrong.
However, I sympathise with everyone who enjoys it and I fully support everyone who tries to convince FDEV to add VR support in Odyssey.
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What you prefer is subjective - sure, Your preference mattering is not. The statement was that vr sucks, not that you suck at experiencing VR or were using sucky VR equipment, which would be true. Elite's VR is objectively a very good implementation of VR within the confines of the genre the game is in. The vast number of people who have experienced it agree. The statement that VR sucks in elite is as subjective as saying that the definition of subjective is subjective because language is a living thing.

You categorically will not experience the game as it was meant without VR. It simply cannot be done. You cannot get the scale or scope of what's been created from a monitor. Nobody is saying monitor gameplay isn't great ... most people who play vr dont play it that way all the time and it obviously is not even available in many games etc.. But you are definitely missing part of the created experience that you can't get any other way and it's worth seeing.

Not sure what you think i'm saying here regarding people who can't play vr or choose not to. They're missing out is all. They may not realize it ...they may not care. But they're definitely missing out. And that sucks for them if they would want to but can't manage. Color blind people miss out of certain things too by being color blind. Deaf people miss out of stuff by not being able to hear it. Doesn't change the fact that something is better seeing it in full color, hearing it as it was meant to be heard.

I'm not saying it's the only proper way to play, i'm saying it's the only way to experience the full game. A monitor is like playing it thru a filter.

The idea that fdev can create an armstrong moment thru a monitor is laughable. It can't hope to capture what the phrase even means.
 

Havvk

Havvk
GraphiteGB said:
Theres no anti gravity tech in ED you can not walk in space with out an object spinning ,
you can only float in ED universe in ships and space. and static stations..

So walkng would require them to change all the ships flight decks to a magnetic material and give you magnetic boots or change lore to add anti gravity or gravity generators items to all ships...
Stations in ED are spinning so you could actual walk... But if you were ever to break free and go weight less you would take a big hit when landing again...
When you land at stations the ship uses anti spin systems to allow you to land.. Your also clamped in place on landing...
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Yet we can teleport holograms up to and including the entire span of the galaxy, instantly.

Hm.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Darth Ender said:
What you prefer is subjective - sure, Your preference mattering is not. The statement was that vr sucks, not that you suck at experiencing VR or were using sucky VR equipment, which would be true. Elite's VR is objectively a very good implementation of VR within the confines of the genre the game is in. The vast number of people who have experienced it agree. The statement that VR sucks in elite is as subjective as saying that the definition of subjective is subjective because language is a living thing.

You categorically will not experience the game as it was meant without VR. It simply cannot be done. You cannot get the scale or scope of what's been created from a monitor. Nobody is saying monitor gameplay isn't great ... most people who play vr dont play it that way all the time and it obviously is not even available in many games etc.. But you are definitely missing part of the created experience that you can't get any other way and it's worth seeing.

Not sure what you think i'm saying here regarding people who can't play vr or choose not to. They're missing out is all. They may not realize it ...they may not care. But they're definitely missing out. And that sucks for them if they would want to but can't manage. Color blind people miss out of certain things too by being color blind. Deaf people miss out of stuff by not being able to hear it. Doesn't change the fact that something is better seeing it in full color, hearing it as it was meant to be heard.

I'm not saying it's the only proper way to play, i'm saying it's the only way to experience the full game. A monitor is like playing it thru a filter.

The idea that fdev can create an armstrong moment thru a monitor is laughable. It can't hope to capture what the phrase even means.
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From my perspective you are perfectly entitled to your opinion as long as you realise that it's entirely subjective.
 

Darth Ender

D
babelfisch said:
From my perspective you are perfectly entitled to your opinion as long as you realise that it's entirely subjective.
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It's not an opinion. Observed reality is not an opinion. We're not talking about how it feels, we're talking about what it is.

me saying that I hate horror movies is an opinion. Or even that horror movies are garbage in general is an opinion.
Me saying that watching horrors movies is best done in the dark is not.

That's what we're talking about here. We're not debating if vr is the best. We're not debating if there aren't compromises you make with VR that make monitors more convenient and overall have more pros than cons. Elite is a game made to be fully experienced in VR the same way horror movies were made to be watched in the dark. That's not an opinion. It just is. based on effectively everyone who has played it both ways and how it was designed.
 
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Darth Ender

D
babelfisch said:
Who are us? I showed my Oculus to 10 friends, they all said it's impressive but wouldn't want to play that way.
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We're not debating the merits of your sad attempt at VR. Explain how a monitor shows you the true scale of objects in the game. Explain how a monitor can make things appear at the correct distance they are from you. Explain how a monitor can make you feel so tiny next to these huge creations made in the game. how you're sitting within a ship with viewscreens a distance away from on larger ships vs feeling cramped in a tiny vulture. Monitors can't give you the full taste of what Elite is. It never will.

You're argument is that it can and I'd love to hear how ...i'm sure the game industry would as well since if they could skip having to resort to vr equipment to allow those kinds of realistic experiences, they would do so in a heartbeat.

edit: and there is a massive difference in experience one has when jumping into a system in VR vs a monitor. Seeing that star in front of you is not even remotely the same in VR as it is seeing it on a monitor screen. Dogfighting is a massively different experience in vr vs a monitor. Traveling into a station is a jaw dropping experience in VR. It's meaningless on a monitor. Even the weak sad excuses for planetary landings and such are entirely different experiences in VR. Your brain is not seeing tiny things out of scale like on a monitor. It's seeing things the way it's meant to be seen. That's not an opinion. And the experience is not trivial. A lot of effort went into Elite to make that experience as realistic as possible and it shows. You lose all of that with only a monitor to play thru.
 
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babelfisch

babelfisch
Darth Ender said:
We're not debating the merits of your sad attempt at VR. Explain how a monitor shows you the true scale of objects in the game. Explain how a monitor can make things appear at the correct distance they are from you. Explain how a monitor can make you feel so tiny next to these huge creations made in the game. how you're sitting within a ship with viewscreens a distance away from on larger ships vs feeling cramped in a tiny vulture. Monitors can't give you the full taste of what Elite is. It never will.

You're argument is that it can and I'd love to hear how ...i'm sure the game industry would as well since if they could skip having to resort to vr equipment to allow those kinds of realistic experiences, they would do so in a heartbeat.

edit: and there is a massive difference in experience one has when jumping into a system in VR vs a monitor. Seeing that star in front of you is not even remotely the same in VR as it is seeing it on a monitor screen. Dogfighting is a massively different experience in vr vs a monitor. Traveling into a station is a jaw dropping experience in VR. It's meaningless on a monitor. Even the weak sad excuses for planetary landings and such are entirely different experiences in VR. Your brain is not seeing tiny things out of scale like on a monitor. It's seeing things the way it's meant to be seen. That's not an opinion. And the experience is not trivial. A lot of effort went into Elite to make that experience as realistic as possible and it shows. You lose all of that with only a monitor to play thru.
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I give up, what a pointless discussion.
 

Darth Ender

D
And the point I was making was that this Neil Armstrong moment is a moment because He was on an alien world ...the first. He looked around and experienced that landscape.

That's a VR exclusive thing. You aren't going to feel like you're on the planet looking around at this alien landscape without vr. You just aren't. The best you can hope for is a sad shadow of what that is. You'll never get that armstrong moment from a monitor.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Darth Ender said:
And the point I was making was that this Neil Armstrong moment is a moment because He was on an alien world ...the first. He looked around and experienced that landscape.

That's a VR exclusive thing. You aren't going to feel like you're on the planet looking around at this alien landscape without vr. You just aren't. The best you can hope for is a sad shadow of what that is. You'll never get that armstrong moment from a monitor.
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You are trolling, right? Or at least taking the pish. Your whole argument (not this post, I mean subjective over objective) is so flawed that it is laughable. I'm not saying that something might be "better" in vr, or not, but your entire premise is subjective for goodness sake!

I always pictured you as being slightly sensible here in the forums, but you're looking a bit like a prized pillock right now. Again, I'm not arguing the point you are making, because there is nothing to argue! So please don't try a "clever" reply about the merits of one over the other - the point is that you're arguing that one subjective opinion is more objective than another - ironic really to say the least.

Anyway, I can't be fudged more than this - I'm just trying to point out the stupidity of your arguments. And I'm not the first to try. By all means please continue to prove yourself wrong pal.
 

Darth Ender

D
There's nothing subjective about how a 3d environment rendered on a monitor differs from VR and why the way it's done in VR results in a more fully realized experience of that 3d environment than a monitor ever could hope to provide.

Pretend like that's not true all you want, it wont change the facts. I'm not making a subjective statement about how VR is better here. I'm stating that there are things that VR allows that aren't able to be experienced with a monitor, and the very thing ...this "Armstrong Experience" being mentioned regarding odyssey, absolutely requires it to exist.
It's literally what VR does and why it exists and it doesn't exist for monitors and if it did, VR would never exist in the first place.
 

[PS4] Filthymick420

[PS4] Filthymick420
Darth Ender said:
There's nothing subjective about how a 3d environment rendered on a monitor differs from VR and why the way it's done in VR results in a more fully realized experience of that 3d environment than a monitor ever could hope to provide.

Pretend like that's not true all you want, it wont change the facts. I'm not making a subjective statement about how VR is better here. I'm stating that there are things that VR allows that aren't able to be experienced with a monitor, and the very thing ...this "Armstrong Experience" being mentioned regarding odyssey, absolutely requires it to exist.
It's literally what VR does and why it exists and it doesn't exist for monitors and if it did, VR would never exist in the first place.
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It is subjective as to how each individual experiences the moment
 
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