The ones I've seen you murdering weren't testing either
Anyway...the rebellion against the UEE navy has begun...break out the pew sticks.
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Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11
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Anyway...the rebellion against the UEE navy has begun...break out the pew sticks.
That hardly showcases stellar performance. So much pew at such low FPS that it looks like blinking LED strings
Well they do have the issue of contradictory promises (don't really like that word, more along the lines of plans).
Like they want to use Theaters of War for balancing ships/weapons and have it be fun. Also plans of semi-perma death with meaningful consequences.
I dont know how you get an arena type mode with instant respawn and lowish TTK to be fun while at the same time having that low TTK in a game with perma death mechanics.
Maybe, we will see.
Aye..no idea what rig the dude was running...looks from the performance like a 486 with 12Mb of RAMThat hardly showcases stellar performance. So much pew at such low FPS that it looks like blinking LED strings
Not a snowball's chance in hell.
EDIT: Just to extend on the question. Not only that they won't make the game they have promised, they won't make the game backers have dreamcrafted for themselves.
For example, before prisons were released there was a certain amount of dreamcrafting.
Not an exact quote but it was something like this:
"When in jail i'll spend my time making contact with other shady players and planning our next job"
Reality:
People either speed run for the exit or log off until the timer expires.
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TBF, I murdered quite a few people trying to mine their way out when it first went live. No one really mining now since everything is broken.
New Era would be buried by the grandchild's grandchild of ED when it happens. Oh, maybe SC will bury the grandchild's grandchild of ED's grandchild, but too bad it would be minutes before our Sun dies of old age.
Sure visually SC is stunning (though artistically not that much, but after all it's matter of taste) Though graphics won't suffice for SC to become a (good) game. For CIG to bury FDEV - or actually bury any dev that released a game - they should finish their game(s) first. However, let's remind of the 90-90 rule and that SC is barely scratching the first 10% of the first 90%.
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Too many people have been encouraged/allowed by CiG to have wildly over-imagineered expactations as to what SC will be, meaning that all of those combined outcomes are probably impossible to meet/marry up. Whilst I believe that the dev team is more then capable of producing a decent game, I don't believe that Genuine Cobblers has a history that suggests that they will be enabled so to do.
I think there are always 'time constraints' in some form or other, be it through people becomming stale and tired and losing sight of the bigger picture, and by technology moving on - for as new, more capabale games and game engines come out, CiG's creaking architecture will become ever less able to support what the 'new new' provides.
However it is questionable as to whether a delivered game is even in CiG's own best interests, let alone to its financial advantage. So the view from 'inside the tent' may be that delivering the game isn't a priority, but that maintaining the dream and its income-stream is paramount.
They already ran out of money in 2018. If they hadn't pulled the wool over Calders' eyes the project would already be done. This is on their own records. The money chart was flying high then too.
Damn, should have remembered there were 3 types of players. Type A, Type B, and sovapid
In some places. In others, its pretty run of the mill for a modern game. In some places i'd even say its behind modern games.
Well, to be fair, they did add the stock cryengine turtle to the game. So that's a stretch goal complete! Take that FUDster!
Low TTK is needed to free more kill cam time to look at the fidelity and extended teabagging.
Yeah but Chris said there would be mocap. Mocap dammit!
Pretty much.
It's got all the "modern game" items checked: monetisation, graphics over gameplay, unfinished product, bugs, multiplayer. It chases all the golden kitten the triple A companies chase. To less and less success, because they're all competing against each other with the sameish shlock.
I even fear it'll bury the whole genre
Yeah but Chris said there would be mocap. Mocap dammit!
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJoHlCc4Y7E&feature=youtu.be&t=1606
Number 83.... 83 times 10 questons. 830 times CR said yes to every hairbrained suggestion from backers.
Aye people usually get the wrong idea and feel like criticism represents attacks on Star Citizen when in reality its criticism against the company which time and time again proves that it cannot deliver, cannot provide what they claim yet continues to ride the money train. I get "the vision" about Star Citizen but doubt its superiority because frankly....X4 already does what Star Citizen tries to do in large parts and you can argue the visual presentation but that wont change the gameplay facts. Focusing on space legs seems to be a sure way to crash your game because you take on more then you figured and whatever you originally wanted for your game soon becomes just another number in all the issues and chalenges cropping up.
Its as if Chris Robert, back in 2012 had no idea what to do or how to accomplish it when he claimed he did and foretold a release in 2014. The time since then is his personal journey where reality breaks his dream apart and teaches him how things work....but I dont see him learning anything from it because A) its not his money being wasted and B) its always somebodies elses fault. He will ultimately fail on this project. If nobody steps in and takes the work off him Star Citizen will eventually go under and I m not talking about how long SC can go on but that the promised game will never be delivered. Even now in its 8th year SC seems to be further away from its goal then back in 2015 and I only see that becoming more of a problem as other companies invent new features, improve on existing ones or come up with gamebreaking new stuff....all the while creating actual games while CIG allows people to wait some more . As he has next to no financial risk in all of this he simply doesnt care as long as his hardcore fans continue to reward him for the illusion of a game.
Not somebody I would trust with my money or leave unattended. I just dont get how immersion is worth all this hassle and risk and while personal risk might be as low as the basic game package for some, most are in for several hundred dollars or even (insanity) thousands and tens of thousands. Its okay if you try to convince yourself that "it was worth it" because reasons but in reality you paid to wait and to get fooled...thats the end result if Star Citizen doesnt make it and for me that would cheapen the experiences I had along the way...even going so far as negating them in total.
Never forget that in long lasting relationships breaking apart there are also long stretches of butterflies and romantic great times. All that isnt important anymore when you stand before the ruins of your shattered dreams and all you have left is hate or desperation.
And I genuinely believe Star Citizen will fail because of the company behind it. A game like Star Citizen will eventually come along or maybe existing games morph into a version of Star Citizen because thats progress and real companies have pushed progress along the road since video games began. You make the reservation of "next era" but thats meaningless when CIG is allowed to hide behind its "its alpha" shield and simply adds new stuff that other games actually deliver to its to-do list....never mind that the list they already have seems to be far out of their competence range but sure....lets wait some more and observe before we are "allowed" to have a negative opinion on it (mind you praise and celebrations are allowed and welcome....strange).
Star Citizen is an achievement but not a "technical" one. This is the simply mistake to take something you are impressed by (in this case....graphics) and apply it to everything else as if there would be a connection. Star Citizens technical foundation is a crappy mess that is incapable of delivering what its creators promise and charge money for. People with actual technical know-how know this, have commented on it and are dismissed as haters or clueless.
There is nothing "special" going on with the criticism directed against Star Citizen except for the level of delusion or resistence coming from the pro-side of the community. Star Citizen is critizised for the things it does wrong, fails to provide or has failed to accomplish....despite a truly epic level of patience and support coming from little people. If I critizise Star Citizen NOW for its crappy performance I dont see how I m going to be "sore" later if it overcomes these issues. Its not like SC running smoothly 2 years from now somehow makes the time now when its running like crap go away or disappear. Criticism now is deserved and justified and you might as well just say it.....needed in order to change.
Because all things Star Citizen are also tied to insane amounts of money opinions usually come out a little more entitled, more drastic, more emotional. The more you risk the more you put yourself out there. Some people have put themselves into this hole for 6 digit sums....I am not surprised that the "hate" or "faith" is absolute in those cases but even if you only buckle down for the minimum, thats still the full prize of a AAA game so here come the justifications and yes, the crapping on other games to present your own choice as the right one.
Progress in Star Citizen exists...but its on the level of stellar bodies forming while having the consumption rate of a star....and the performance of a lifeless piece of rock. So assuming that funding and time is limitless and the world is a static unchanging place Star Citizen will of course arrive at its destination eventually. But you probably realize how this isnt going to happen ever because its a feary dream.
There is lots of money but it has limits. So does the patience or should I rather say "tolerance to abuse" of its community. Time passes and because the world is an ever changing place the "next era" as you stated is a guaranteed thing not a question. The only question is if Star Citizen can become a game before that era arrives rendering it worthless and thats a BIG "?" at this time or if the project will be a ....never seeing the light of day but still remembered for its potential.
History makes the effort to record all the tiny details, the good and the bad. In short...all the facts in order to explain or come to the end result. If something succeeds against all odds people will be interested to know how it managed that. And in those cases the worst thing you can do is to rely on the report of the one succeeding. It will be one-sided, non-factual and biased. You rather dig deep and bring up all the things that lead to the result in order to understand what made it possible. In case of the "american dream" its not hard work and persistence as the people at the top might want you to believe. Its rather the level of focus, selfishness, willingness to exploit others and absolute ruthlessness to accomplish your goal, no matter the cost. Oh and a huge dose or good old luck of course. Of course "hard work" has this heroic touch to it that makes you appear like a champion but often enough success comes at the cost of OTHERS doing the "hard work" while you are the one exploiting them. One thing I know with certainty is that hard work and character can go unnoticed and unrewarded but you can cheat your way to the top with relative ease. Regardless how stupid or inpropable your proposition, the task is to find the right people who will support you against all evidence. Works for religion and pretty much every other thing in the world.
This isnt even debatable. People like to "count the hits and ignore the misses" in all kinds of things but you gotta acknowledge all the people who tried and failed in the past. The result determines in which pool you are and Star Citizen is an unknown even tho many facts point to the "failure" pool. ED is an easy target to bash because we all know what it doesnt do but if we do that we have to acknowledge what it does do. I am not even trying to defend ED because I dont have to. It speaks for itself. Star Citizen cannot do that. Star Citizen needs an armada of white knights or justifications and explanations in order to make it look good because left alone it will only prove how it cannot do the job that people have thrown 300 millions at and waited 8 years for. All the reports of "immersiveness" or "feeling" are just a way to cope with the cost which stands in no relation to what you get for your money but it helps to continue.
What exactly am I going to be "sore" about in case Star Citizen pulls through and becomes the game it promised back in 2012?
If that happens we all win and its down to the petty people dancing in the streets preaching how they were right and all the haters were wrong. Are you saying I will be sore because all Star Citizen fans are petty and vindictive? Thats your implication here. my assessment of Star Citizens qualities and its probably future are based on the facts of the last 8 years. Its not an opinion that I made on the fly or without probable cause. Star Citizens current state is AT BEST "worrying" and anybody who says otherwise and claims "guaranteed success" (only a matter of time) or already celebrates it as a success even tho there are no tangible results yet is mocking reality and is resisting for the sake of resisting.
I can see all the bad in Star Citizen....I cant really see anything "good" in it tho but maybe you can help. Because maybe I m simply not thinking of the things you think of when you say that.
I like your posts because you manage to describe what you want to see in Star Citizen without becoming agressive or ̶d̶̶e̶̶l̶̶u̶̶s̶̶i̶̶o̶̶n̶̶a̶̶l̶ personal. And you also dont claim that Star Citizen "is already there" but you post how you want that to happen. Nothing against it. I d like that too. I DID like to have that too back a few years when I was still on the fence about Star Citizen and had hope. CIG has crushed and erradicated that hope. With those people at the helm Star Citizen wont go anywhere. I see the current results as the things that emerged DESPITE CIG not because of them. Its nice to see honest optimism, like watching young children discovering things for the first time. Its genuinely amazing for them but I cannot share that....due to my knowledge and experience. Please dont think I m calling you a kid or anything. I wanted to point out how you can see potential and have hope where I gave up. I think that if we speak again in 2 years from now going over the same old topics your tone and message might have changed too. Or maybe Star Citizen will have changed my view due to the progress and results.
I simply refuse to believe in "potential" and ignore glaring issues for the sake of "feeling good". That people feel good while walking through corridors or around their ships is great. But thats not the game. Thats not Star Citizen and thats only a tiny part of what Star Citizen received 300 million dollars for. You want to see it as proof of concept thats your choice (not saying you specifically do btw) but for that kind of money and that kind of time frame I m standing here and saying "this is pretty disappointing".
That doesnt sound like game development to me. More like acceptance in connection to denial. Obviously Star Citizen isnt coming soon. We all understand that. Its tied directly to the competence of the company behind it. And after years of watching them reinventing the wheel this isnt even a question anymore. You mention "groundwork seemingly in place" when we have pages upon pages describing whats not working or still missing. You simply drive right past all that.....ignore it and concentrate on a standpoint that isnt justifiable (to me). You seem to chose the improbable exception against all available evidence and data we already have and thats your right. But you are on the level of the faithful if you do. I wonder who the people are you think have "forgotten" about the games state years ago when most of the time its people who werent even taking part in the project then. You have a lot of complaints and criticism directed against SC and CIG specifically because people remember the state the game was in in 2015 and understand how much the progress since then has cost not only in hard cash but emtionally as well.
Hell....I have to read back occasionally because some aspects of Star Citizen are "distant history" by now easy to forget so a refresher is needed from time to time to not rely on faulty memories.
But we are using terminology that doesnt describe an effective, streamlined, well managed and successful project. We rather use terms to excuse Star Citizens lack of progress and results, to excuse its blunders and greedy appearance, to excuse its rude defenders...in short we EMPOWER a sorry excuse for a project and all the bad that comes with it. Beause predatory management and business strategies are not only directed against the backers but also against the developers. I cant imagine how long the remaining people in CIG are working under crunch conditions already or what kind of pressure they are under to provide a result that the management cannot describe, cannot fix down or is changing constantly to keep SC "fresh". When people come forth to describe a "toxic workplace" I have no reason to disbelieve them. CIGs community interaction is full of toxicity usually directed against anybody who refuses to praise them. Even sarcasm or playful mocking is punished now. With that kind of sensitivity on display I dare to say CIG is feeling the pressure as well.
But the solution is not to "step back and leave em alone". At the very least we are talking about professionals here who are paid royally for the questions and opinions their backers have. Community management and direction is those peoples JOB, not sure if they are trained for it but regardless....if thats your job you better do it well not go on a power trip or lash out left and right because you are frustrated or dont like what people have to say.
People are getting frustrated after years and years of hollow promises, carrot on a stick hints and full out disappointments. Venting is their right. And to be fair they certainly paid for that right too so are entitled to it. Its bad enough to see white knights and fanatics going for the throat but when paid employees participate in the witch hunt....thats the end game right there.
An interesting statement. History shows that even capable people failed because they didnt have enough time or funding was cut preemtively right before success. And thats certainly an angle CIG and its more outspoken defenders play at. But its also the entry fee for SUNK COST FALLACY of which we even have videos about in connection with SC. Giving up on SC and the project is easier for me because I was never invested and I can imagine holding out longer or keeping hope a little longer if I were in for 300 bucks or more. The signs and facts remain the same. I m simply neutral in one scenario and invested in the other. Now objectively I dare to say its better to be neutral then invested when discussing a topic but somehow I am the "hater" and the people who do have a stake in SCs success are the "good guys".
People nowadays have moved from complaining and whining (still existing but its not the focus anymore and I mean this for the actual backers, not the newcomers) to asking specific and clear questions and CIGs response is a big fat silence most of the time. Instead its fanboys and white knights "pick up the banner" to fight on their behalf....often stating nonsense or delusional stuff that isnt rooted in reality. CIG isnt doing themselves any favors by letting others speak for it. But it does and in the proccess even supports the level of toxicity that runs so rampantly in its community.
When we ask "what game is Star Citizen" today we get a whole lot of contradictive answers...mostly from fans because CIG seems to be unable to answer that question even tho thats a mission statement every project should have in its first week of runtime. Instead of a clear reply we get pages of descriptions about "the dream" and what its eventually going to be. The problem with Star Citizen, same as religion is that it wants to be everything at the same time.
Space Sim
FPS
World Builder
Hardcore survival
Seamless
Complex
In reality, even nailing one of those things is hard already. Combining these things adds to the difficulty of the project. Star Citizen doesnt seem to have a limiter in the things it wants to be. It even ADDS new things years into development acting as if we are in the very early stages, not almost in for a decade. It seems that even the design phase of Star Citizen isnt finished yet....and thats a frightening realization because with that progress rate SC truly has no hope of ever releasing. But here is where people pick a side.
You can ignore whats missing and forgive delays or incompetence to rejoice in all the new things to come regardless how inpropable they are regarding the fact that even past promises and goals are nowhere near completion - you chose to "live the dream"
Or you can continue to remind CIG of all the things they received money for and which are still missing. Ask for what was sold to you, what was promised and continue to demand results.
These two factions clash of course. It would be CIGs job to smooth the waves ("die Wogen glätten" somebody help me out here) but they are happy to empower the one side and punish the other. Thats why I have next to no respect for CIG anymore, its despicable behavior from a company. This alone would result in me condemning them...regardless of the result.
The thing about these lists or advertisements from CIG is that they lean heavily on other games to provide an experience or yearning that those games already provide. Deadlier then COD, a complex player-driven economy like in EVE, flight model like ED and so on. Star Citizen of course provides nothing of that sort, at least not to the level of quality or detail those other games do. EDs flight model for example is superior in every way, performs better and overall results in a great feeling of flight. Regarding the flight physics SC is simply bad but it enables people to experience flight from the viewpoint of their avatar which makes it new and amazing. The flight model is still bad.
And this line of thinking applies to everything regardless how shockingly bad or unfinished it is.
...because space legs
I dont share that notion. Because then space legs is the one-for-all plaster that excuses everything bad or subpar about Star Citizen. And in that regard everything in Star Citizen is bad or subpar if evaluated on its own. Only space legs saves it. Graphically its not on the forefront anymore. Games with better visuals out there and of course those games can provide their visuals at 30 or even 60 frames reliably. And in the meantime other games provide space legs experience (take X4 for example) and the conclusion from those games is that space legs is nice for a time....but space legs dont make a game. X4 has been a success but it hasnt been the game to end all other games....a title that SC occasionally claims for itself (tho...voiced by the most fanatical people). The sad truth is that CIG is a looooooong way off to reach X4s state of completion. Regarding how much time they needed so far to reach this point of development I dont even think 15 more years is out of the question. Or they simply release what they have but of course.....that isnt even close to what they sold.
Its the fallacy you see everywhere. Star Citizen has space legs and it gives me immersion, thats why its space combat is good/fun. etc
And immersion as an argument only goes so far when Star Citizen right now is chock full of immersion-breaking things. How much can you ignore or mind-gymnastic from bad to good for the sake of the dream?
"How much are you in for commando" is a question that clearly is relevant in this.
...and get ignored?
I cant help but feel like the bug reporting is a black hole in itself. A nice little front for the alpha testers to feel like they participate and help. And while some issues get fixed....most are still in game and ignored and you wonder why?
So, these previews are nice and good, but when can we expect the full book to be published?
Also its clear CR had no idea what he was talking about in 2012 when he said that he could make the BDSSE in just 2-3 years with just a few million. Expanded scope aside, which came later, he couldn't achieve what he initially promised and still hasn't achieved even the much more basic vision he laid out initially. That has to be one of the biggest warning signs of this who project. Its one thing for backers to talk about expanded scope and of course that's why he hasn't delivered on that, but he still hasn't delivered anything comparable with the initial pitch either.
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