Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

I'm going to give JackFrags, and the game, one 'positive click'...

He did actually include one particularly buggy segment in his penultimate video. His co-host getting downed for no apparent reason, while also being absurdly desynced... (Co-host's perspective here)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSREwlHbULw&t=875s

The organic piracy nonsense that surrounds it is actually pretty great. (And I do have a slight suspicion that he simply couldn't edit the bugginess out from the middle of it ;)). It's both the best and the worst of the game simultaneously ;)

Examples of notably buggy, yet amusing, bits that he didn't include would be stuff like this though:


He definitely does his best, alongside the stirring intro music, to make it one big grand swoop of adventure. Rather than a more honest appraisal or 'review' of the overall game. (He certainly doesn't include hat tips to the general grumping about downsides which permeates all the downtime.)

Some examples of the fuller moans his co-host had about the game (mainly after he left in fairness), would be stuff like this ;)


(NB this was all in super stable 3.16 ;))
 
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The analogy that feels right for me about this thread is that's it's a very comfy chair in a nice warm and sunny room, looking out on a half tended garden in an old people's home, full of semi entrenched hostilities that break out now and again. Followed by a nice cup of tea, visiting hours, and dinner where buns get routinely and in effectually thrown across tables.

In summary, it's sometimes funny, often pointlessly ludicrous, but always worth popping in just to say hi.

Now if we could just get those pesky zombie cows to stay in their field, we'd be sorted and could get out into the garden again...
 
The analogy that feels right for me about this thread is that's it's a very comfy chair in a nice warm and sunny room, looking out on a half tended garden in an old people's home, full of semi entrenched hostilities that break out now and again. Followed by a nice cup of tea, visiting hours, and dinner where buns get routinely and in effectually thrown across tables.

In summary, it's sometimes funny, often pointlessly ludicrous, but always worth popping in just to say hi.

Now if we could just get those pesky zombie cows to stay in their field, we'd be sorted and could get out into the garden again...

'Old people throwing zimmer frames at each other' kinda sums up this whole forum ;)
 
Nope, don't think so. I was just expressing an opinion from the content overall...in a general sense. It does lean toward ridicule at times and focuses way too much on the spending habits of individuals. There's not much going on with SC worth discussion...so let's make fun of the backers. Hell...even I do it :D
When I originally backed Star Citizen up in 2012, I was prepared to pay a “subscription fee” in cosmetics, similar to what I’ve done in other MMOs that didn’t charge a subscription, to the tune of $120 a year, as long as I felt it was worth playing ,and I felt the developers were doing a good job, after the game released… in 2014. This was to be the game that would keep me occupied until Elite Dangerous got a couple paid updates under its belt, so that the game would resemble Frontier: Elite 2 in content. I figured I’d be playing it for 4-6 years, perhaps longer, if even my pessimistic timeline proved to be over generous, so I could’ve easily paid $1000 to CIG had fulfilled those 2012 promises.

But they didn’t, and much like Mechwarrior Online, development of SC moved away from what I’d been promised, in a direction I don’t consider as much fun. Rather than holding CIG in general, and Chris Roberts in particular, to those promises, the community rewarded failure financially. Which really baffled, but at the time I had dismissed it as part of the original pay-to-win aspect of the game.

Still, as long as they seemed to be developing the game in good faith, I was willing to keep up my end of the bargain. People in general tend to underestimate the amount of work required, and overestimate their own abilities, especially in video game development, so I tend to add a generous 50% to any time estimates I’m given. So I wasn't surprised that it wasn't ready in 2014. Disappointed, but not surprised. I was surprised, however, by the state the game was in when 2015 came to a close.

This made me curious about why the project was so far behind, despite having raised a hundred times the original estimate, so I started diving into the details of this game’s development. It didn’t take long to to get a sense that this game wasn’t being developed in good faith. It started with the revelation that Chris Roberts, through the “Roberts Family Trust,” had bought a mansion in LA, which is something I consider inherently dishonest. It's a method of evading individual taxes, while still receiving the individual benefits.

Then came the discovery that he had kept secret his years long marriage to his head of marketing, a struggling actress who had no previous experience at the job. And, of course, there was the blinging out of his LA headquarters and the lavishly appointed annual conventions, which is something successful game developers do, and successful in no way described CIG's repeated failures to deliver on their promises. A deep dive into the public and independent audits of the UK branch of the company included a six-figure "directors remuneration", which was essentially the Roberts Clan paying themselves twice to do their jobs... and rewarding themselves very generously as well.

Finding out in 2017 that CIG was not one company operating in three countries, or a very understandable three companies in three countries to take advantage of local tax breaks, but over two dozen shell companies, was drove me to get a refund. That reeked of "Hollywood Accounting," which is a way of legally draining profit out of a project, in order to avoid fulfilling your promises to those who supported you making it.

In the case of Hollywood, this is a way studios avoid paying copyright holders, writers, directors, actors, and all the other people who helped make the movie, their fair share in its success. It's a practice I consider unethical, but the fact that Hollywood studios do this is well known. The fact that CIG was doing this, on the other hand, was alarming. Because in the case of Star Citizen, the role of the studios were the Roberts Clan, and the people who were being denied "their fare share in its success" were the backers themselves. This was the ultimate violation of every promise CIG had initially made, as well as an utterly unethical abuse of the crowd funding model.

And still bafflingly, backers continue to reward incompetence with ever increasing financial success. So if I occasionally ridicule backers, its not for how much they spend. If CIG had fulfilled their promises, and retained my attention long enough through great gameplay I enjoyed, I could've easily been one of those people who had spent $1000 not on virtual pay-to-win space ships, but on virtual decorations for those space ships, my virtual avatar, my virtual property, and so on. Instead, that $1000 has been spread over multiple games, including single player space games like Space Engineers for camoflage patterns and a variety of windows that have no in-game advantage, and Surviving Mars, so I have a wider variety of "radio stations" to groove along with as I keep one ear out for alerts from the game as I clean the bathroom.

I ridicule backers for not caring that a crowd funded project is not only being grossly mismanaged, but has also been used made multi-millionaires of four people... the very same people that crowd funding is supposed to reward last.
 
I'm going to give JackFrags, and the game, one 'positive click'...

He did actually include one particularly buggy segment in his penultimate video. His co-host getting downed for no apparent reason, while also being absurdly desynced... (Co-host's perspective here)
.......
(NB this was all in super stable 3.16 ;))
An interesting mix of very impressive, really quite janky, vaguely tedious and boring, and insta-death by bug.

In other news I'm looking forward to Starfield.
 
Further to that, I'll certainly ridicule those who think gameplay-affecting micro and macrotransactions (aka Pay2Win) in games are a good thing 😂
You're free to do that, but the way you do it comes across quite petty IMO - borderline "ignore list" petty. Mocking and ridicule are tools of bullies, not thoughtful debaters.
 
When I originally backed Star Citizen up in 2012, I was prepared to pay a “subscription fee” in cosmetics, similar to what I’ve done in other MMOs that didn’t charge a subscription, to the tune of $120 a year, as long as I felt it was worth playing ,and I felt the developers were doing a good job, after the game released… in 2014. This was to be the game that would keep me occupied until Elite Dangerous got a couple paid updates under its belt, so that the game would resemble Frontier: Elite 2 in content. I figured I’d be playing it for 4-6 years, perhaps longer, if even my pessimistic timeline proved to be over generous, so I could’ve easily paid $1000 to CIG had fulfilled those 2012 promises.

But they didn’t, and much like Mechwarrior Online, development of SC moved away from what I’d been promised, in a direction I don’t consider as much fun. Rather than holding CIG in general, and Chris Roberts in particular, to those promises, the community rewarded failure financially. Which really baffled, but at the time I had dismissed it as part of the original pay-to-win aspect of the game.

Still, as long as they seemed to be developing the game in good faith, I was willing to keep up my end of the bargain. People in general tend to underestimate the amount of work required, and overestimate their own abilities, especially in video game development, so I tend to add a generous 50% to any time estimates I’m given. So I wasn't surprised that it wasn't ready in 2014. Disappointed, but not surprised. I was surprised, however, by the state the game was in when 2015 came to a close.

This made me curious about why the project was so far behind, despite having raised a hundred times the original estimate, so I started diving into the details of this game’s development. It didn’t take long to to get a sense that this game wasn’t being developed in good faith. It started with the revelation that Chris Roberts, through the “Roberts Family Trust,” had bought a mansion in LA, which is something I consider inherently dishonest. It's a method of evading individual taxes, while still receiving the individual benefits.

Then came the discovery that he had kept secret his years long marriage to his head of marketing, a struggling actress who had no previous experience at the job. And, of course, there was the blinging out of his LA headquarters and the lavishly appointed annual conventions, which is something successful game developers do, and successful in no way described CIG's repeated failures to deliver on their promises. A deep dive into the public and independent audits of the UK branch of the company included a six-figure "directors remuneration", which was essentially the Roberts Clan paying themselves twice to do their jobs... and rewarding themselves very generously as well.

Finding out in 2017 that CIG was not one company operating in three countries, or a very understandable three companies in three countries to take advantage of local tax breaks, but over two dozen shell companies, was drove me to get a refund. That reeked of "Hollywood Accounting," which is a way of legally draining profit out of a project, in order to avoid fulfilling your promises to those who supported you making it.

In the case of Hollywood, this is a way studios avoid paying copyright holders, writers, directors, actors, and all the other people who helped make the movie, their fair share in its success. It's a practice I consider unethical, but the fact that Hollywood studios do this is well known. The fact that CIG was doing this, on the other hand, was alarming. Because in the case of Star Citizen, the role of the studios were the Roberts Clan, and the people who were being denied "their fare share in its success" were the backers themselves. This was the ultimate violation of every promise CIG had initially made, as well as an utterly unethical abuse of the crowd funding model.

And still bafflingly, backers continue to reward incompetence with ever increasing financial success. So if I occasionally ridicule backers, its not for how much they spend. If CIG had fulfilled their promises, and retained my attention long enough through great gameplay I enjoyed, I could've easily been one of those people who had spent $1000 not on virtual pay-to-win space ships, but on virtual decorations for those space ships, my virtual avatar, my virtual property, and so on. Instead, that $1000 has been spread over multiple games, including single player space games like Space Engineers for camoflage patterns and a variety of windows that have no in-game advantage, and Surviving Mars, so I have a wider variety of "radio stations" to groove along with as I keep one ear out for alerts from the game as I clean the bathroom.

I ridicule backers for not caring that a crowd funded project is not only being grossly mismanaged, but has also been used made multi-millionaires of four people... the very same people that crowd funding is supposed to reward last.

My history with Star Citizen started back there in 2012 as well, but went by a tiny bit different: comes a faithful day of 2012, lazy afternoon at work, my colleague at the time calls me at the pc,
- "Would you look at that, a new space game that has just been announced, they say it's a 'kickstarter' where future players can contribute for the development"
- "Wow, that's a nice...looks literally like a new Wing Commander!"
- "It does, it's from the same guy that made Wing Commander! They say out for 2014 at worst, the trailer looks pretty much polished already, it's incredible if that's the game as they say."
-"Ah, I see, it's from that Anvil guy of the old Wing Commanders..."

- flashbacks of dreamcrafting on a magazine article in 1999 about all the things I could have done in Freelancer in a few months -

-"Scratch that one off the waiting list, you'll never see it come out in 2014, or until some producer buys the whole stock off him"

Aaand that's me still waiting from the balcony, with a whole new bunch of fresh white hairs growing up in the brief meantime.



This kind of thread drama is why I'm still a dweller around here from time to time, I've seen movies with worst scripts than the content emerging from this silly place. :LOL:
 
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I thought that at first too, but then people tell me that a few thousand dollars for a computer that can play Odyssey smoothly "isn't much" (then throw in VR gear and 32 button HOTAS and vibrating chairs and ....) so I kinda wonder if we're not already suckers on some level.
Few thousand? Mine was roughly around 1000, and can run Odyssey nice enough for me. (Though gaming was not main consideration for my rig, more about ability to do some virtualisation stuff, but with decent GPU it can handle gaming too...)
 
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Few thousand? Mine was roughly around 1000, and can run Odyssey nice enough for me. (Though gaming was not main consideration for my rig, more about ability to do some virtualisation stuff, but with decent GPU it can handle gaming too...)
In seven days, I’ll be able see exactly how much Star Citizen performance has improved for myself, on my current machine. The last few two free flies, my relatively high-end machine struggled to get above 30 FPS at 1080p. Now’s the time to properly level my expectations, because if certain people are to be believed, I should see a doubling of my frame rate and a lot fewer bugs compared to last time. ;)

I’d love to see how my eight year rig could handle SC, but not even I would expect a machine that exceeded Star Citizen’s recommended specs in 2014 to be able to handle Chris Roberts current fidelity demands.
 
In seven days, I’ll be able see exactly how much Star Citizen performance has improved for myself, on my current machine. The last few two free flies, my relatively high-end machine struggled to get above 30 FPS at 1080p. Now’s the time to properly level my expectations, because if certain people are to be believed, I should see a doubling of my frame rate and a lot fewer bugs compared to last time. ;)

I’d love to see how my eight year rig could handle SC, but not even I would expect a machine that exceeded Star Citizen’s recommended specs in 2014 to be able to handle Chris Roberts current fidelity demands.
I'm kind of amused about Old Duck's recent SC interest. I mean it seems to me that he thinks his rig will not run Odyssey acceptably but wants to try SC :D

Ok if it can run SC fine, Odyssey will also run very fine.
 
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