Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

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Factabulous said:
So ... will this actually be gameplay? I can't think why I would care that there are blue & white collar workers - ever. Entertainers ... could be anything - so I get to watch a juggler maybe? Tourists - do they wander around while T-posing - or are there tourist missions like ED has had for a while?

If there are tourist missions then I guess they'll need to navigate to your ship (for the immersions), which will be a whole other can of worms ('my passenger got stuck in a lift on the way to my ship - what do I do!)


... so only a year until they find out (like every other game) that people don't like that, and that once you have enough money it doesn't matter at all :)
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Pretentious crap to field fancy fantasy words. You can tell the money goes into marketing and not development from the shiny words they invent for their non-existant "tech".
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
LittleAnt said:
A response from CR to "How is the Dynamic Economy shaping up? and is server meshing an essential requirement before Quantas show up?"
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/ask-the-chairman/3389607
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ECity said:
This is a perfectly reasonable article for 2015.
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Indeed 😄

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt4r3ksHXng&t=7m16s


Chris Roberts (August 2015): We actually have a full Universe simulation that runs… we actually don’t need it to run on any particular bank of servers. It just actually runs on one server, and it simulates about 20 million AI agents. It simulates the AI agents in a very sort of high-level manner. Ok, you’ve got a mission, you’re going to go from here to here, so it’s not simulating it on the fidelity level that you would do when you’re actually connected to the game and flying around and doing combat maneuvers or flying from point to point, it’s simulating it more in the – here’s the jobs, here’s the missions, here’s the market demand, here’s the things that are happening – ok, you’ve taken a mission to take these goods from planet A to planet B, so you’ve now taken that job off the market. Now you’re going to go from planet A to planet B, so that’s just a line trace, that trip’s going to take, say, whatever it would be, a day of game time, and then along the way there’s a chance that you could fight or run into some pirates, and if they do we resolve that combat. If you’re not there, kind of more like a dice roll, but if you are there, in the area, this all gets sort of created, spawned in where you are – you will see the result, the actual combat will end up getting spawned in, and you’ll see it play out, and the result of it will be fed back to the Universe server simulation. So the Universe simulation keeps track of all the NPC’s. It’s the one that’s dealing with the goods and the markets, the economy nodes, so on various planets there’ll be things that produce, things that consume, so there’s sort of a very high-level meta AI that’s running on the economy simulation. And from that high-level simulation we can track the sort of movement, the populations, the progress of AI, in a sort of much higher-level, abstracted way, and of course since that doesn’t need to be real time, like you flying around, we can time slice it, which is why we can simulate so many agents. So, we’re not having to do 20 million agents at 30fps at all, so you can update every single agent maybe every 5 minutes, or every 10 minutes, and that’s how you can manage so many of them. In the time scale the Universe happens, it doesn’t need to be the same sort of fidelity that we do on the game server, which is, that’s the one where, in Arena Commander now, if you connect and dogfight with someone, the game server is what’s sort of running you and the other clients running, and it’s worrying about simulating where the bullets are, and all the ins and outs of the high fidelity flight and the combat. So, essentially the NPC population is mostly simulated. I think that, on some level, we don’t necessarily simulate every individual person on a planet, so like a planet would say, okay, here’s your general population, and that general population where missions have to happen could spawn certain number of bounty-hunters, or a certain number of traders or haulers or cargo folks. And then they will take their missions and then that particular ship… we sort of simulate the ships, and the missions that are happening on an individual basis, and then when you’re on the planet, there’ll be a setup of here’s the population going up and down, is it things going well on the planet, then if so, more people are arriving there, population’s getting bigger, it’s expanding, if things aren’t doing so well, it’d be the [opposite] one.

But it’s a pretty decent, high-level simulation, and that information is then fed to the system servers and the game servers, and that will help determine, when you’re flying around, whether or not you will encounter NPC’s or not, and whether those NPC’s are fighting each other, in conflict, or what’s happening. So, one of the cool things is, we’ll have a living breathing world happening, irrelevant of how many actual players are playing. So, there could be only one person playing in the Star Citizen Universe – I mean I hope to god not – but if there was, there would still be a living, breathing Universe, people going about their daily lives, trading, being Pirates, being bounty hunters, being miners, all of that sort of stuff. So I think when that all comes online and comes together, I think it’ll be very cool. We currently have the Universe Simulation happening on a server, and we have an interface where there’s the communication of kind of what you would, this is the kind of thing you would see if you’re in this area, and that’s all in progress so…
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
[VR] Golgot said:
Indeed 😄

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt4r3ksHXng&t=7m16s
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Yup, this is just showing how CIG keep selling the same stuff to backers over and over again.

Just this part alone:

We actually have a full Universe simulation that runs… we actually don’t need it to run on any particular bank of servers. It just actually runs on one server, and it simulates about 20 million AI agents.
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He's basically saying they had quanta all those years ago, running 20 million AI agents on a single server. They had it! Or so he claimed.

But now, they are just developing it?

Which is it Chris?

Or, it didn't work well, so you threw it all out? Why? You found it didn't actually work like you advertised it?

People threw money at CIG for things like this and other stuff they claimed to have done. They gave CIG money because CIG said SQ42 was almost ready. People have given CIG money time and again based on what CIG have told them, which then later turned out to be a load of tripe.

And yet, backers keep giving them more money.

Time to quote some lyrics.

Its astounding. Time is fleeting. Madness takes its toll.
 

LittleAnt

L
Factabulous said:
Hmm, so missions and trading aren't gameplay ;)
And yes, I know what it is - it's about the same as ED's BGS - which has been in the game since launch ....
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It's not direct gameplay but it's heavily tied to the gameplay. The reference is more EVE online here and how they manage the economy to macro and micro level (and the economic part is not the only part of the system).
 

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LittleAnt said:
It's not direct gameplay but it's heavily tied to the gameplay. The reference is more EVE online here and how they manage the economy to macro and micro level (and the economic part is not the only part of the system).
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Missions aren't gamplay? Trading neither? You can't just make up some nollocks like that. If you want to troll, put a bit more effort in it. We're not some stupid morons. Show some more respect.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Mole HD said:
The one main problem I see from that canned response is CR's arrogant assumption that by the 'back end of next year' when this dynamic economy will merely be ready for the testing environment and not implemented as a working game function, Star Citizen will still be at all relevant.
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Not only that but he states just “elements” of it... and that expected towards end of 2021... which in terms of CR and SC speech means you need to add some generous contingency to that... plus the additional time CIG will require to complete the rest of the “elements” of the full system... 2023+ or so then? And that is just the Quantum economy system. Never mind the rest of the game.

But hey, no worries, it has been a long while since this project reached a point where incompetence, multi year delays and non delivery of paid for products is fully normalized.
 
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Vetinari

V
There a video on YT where someone types 'Star Citizen a, then SC b, then SC c' etc etc and shows what the results are, quite funny.

So the next milestone for anything from CIG has moved from Sep 2020 to end of year 20121, keep funding folks nearly there, and nobody bats an eyelid? Way to move the discussion. It is clever, despicable and sinister, but still clever.
 

Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
Agony_Aunt said:
He's basically saying they had quanta all those years ago, running 20 million AI agents on a single server. They had it! Or so he claimed.

But now, they are just developing it?

Which is it Chris?

Or, it didn't work well, so you threw it all out? Why? You found it didn't actually work like you advertised it?
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SC is totally not as scam, but totally directed by a crook.
 

Vetinari

V
Mole HD said:
as much as none of them will be buying in once the freefly is over after an in depth Q&A session with me...
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Tippis said:
Now, their decision not to buy in might, but that would still require a bit more insight into what went into that judgement..
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He answered it before you questioned it....

That convo went something like 'I can see youre impressed with the graphics and some elements of the 'gameplay'. I can see you can see the vision and think this will be awesome! Just to tell you that the same thing you are being sold now is the same thing I was sold 8 years ago and I still haven't got my product. I didnt pledge to get access to a forum or some 'fun' discussions about the game, I wouldnt have pledged for that, I wanted a product. That product is as far away from market now as it was then, but we all learned a lot on the way. So my advice is wait, wait until theres a released game, and then decide whether you wantto buy that game. Do not 'pledge' to the company, buy the game when its out if you want'

its called honesty and objectivity.

MTBFritz said:
Maybe that drives the point home how "worthless" the statement really is.
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MTBFritz said:
You had fun with a few guys. Nothing he wrote refuses that and what he said still is valid and holds true. The fact that you had fun with a few guys says nothing about Star Citizen and is essentially worthless in determining its entertaining value for others
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Bad does not equal not fun.
Good does not equal fun.
It is all subjective.

That doesnt make it worthless to ask someone, is it fun? Or whats fun about it?

RedBaroon said:
View attachment 188808
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Wow, Frontier would love a player base happy with that and always blaming their or others machines. Would kill the forums though. And Frontier aint bad at all, actually is there a comparison, just for curiosity? Lol if its the same or worse, will have to edit & strike through rapidly :)

Mole HD said:
Outside of us space geeks, the wider gaming community haven't even heard of Star Citizen...if they have, it's probably only been via a meme they saw once on Twitch or Twitter. Just try mentioning SC to groups of online friends who play ARMA, DCS, Destiny, Fortnite, Battlefield, CoD...or anything at all really. The first surprised response is always "Is that space thing still going? I heard something about it a few years ago..."
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Hello, thats me a few months ago. came onto my radar from 3 separate sources so I started paying attention. Before that I knew they sold ships for money (didnt realise they were just jpegs or imagined motorbikes) and just thought 'joke company'. $330m starts getting peoples attention, what is it now? $400m?
 

LittleAnt

L
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Missions aren't gamplay? Trading neither? You can't just make up some nollocks like that. If you want to troll, put a bit more effort in it. We're not some stupid morons. Show some more respect.
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I don't want to troll, I'm serious. The quantum system will not change the direct gameplay but the indirect one.
The actual escort missions / investigation missions / dogfight missions / etc will intrinsically not change when quantum might be connected. How, when and where they spawn will change but not the missions themselve.
The actual trading might not change fundamentally too. Quantum might manage prices and shortages and spawn other missions on your path but the way you buy, travel and sell goods will be the same before and after quantum.
 
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Sanya V. Juutilainen

Sanya V. Juutilainen
LittleAnt said:
I don't want to troll, I'm serious. The quantum system will not change the direct gameplay but the indirect one.
The actual escort missions / investigation missions / dogfight missions / etc will intrinsically not change when quantum might be connected. How, when and where they spawn will change but not the missions themselve.
The actual trading might not change fundamentally too. Quantum might manage prices and shortages and spawn other missions on your path but the way you buy /travel and sell goods will be the same before and after quantum.
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I agree.

It will behave exactly as BGS in Elite; exactly as you just described.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Sanya V. Juutilainen said:
I agree.

It will behave exactly as BGS in Elite; exactly as you just described.
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I can tell you from experience that Star Citizen folks don't want to hear that... When I first saw Tony Zurovec's demo from the last citizencon I was immediately impressed (it was a cool demo)...then I realised after I'd watched it once or twice more, it was just recreating the function of the BGS from Elite but shown in graphical format. I'm sure it's a bit more in depth than the BGS...but it certainly (allegedly) works the same at the end of it ...with only one system to calculate for...the BGS does it for millions of them :)
 
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