Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Mole HD

Mole HD
ECity said:
Bitconnect was a ponzi scheme. SC is not. SC is a confidence scam. So both have people who were conned. In both, the conned gleefully support the project (until it collapses). So claiming to be a "funhaver" is irrelevant.

And after the collapse, the conned blame everyone else, including the critics. That will happen with SC.
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May well do...I hope you're right or you'll have to find another hobby ;)
 

TiberiusDuval

T
Pug said:
blah blah blah. I wasn't talking about idiots but people with half a brain.
Fly safe Cmdr o7
Pug
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Even pretty smart people can do that. Its psychological thing. Its pretty hard to admit to yourself that you really have been outwitted by scammer. Thinking goes like "Maybe its just a misundertanding, or baseless accusations and conman will make good on his promises ".
 
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MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Mole HD said:
May well do...I hope you're right or you'll have to find another hobby ;)
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Dude, once SC is over there will be the next best thing. We old-timers will be able to use our experience to tell all the youngsters whats what and they will tell us to shut it and hurry with the dying cuz what do we know eh? And when we point and describe our actual experience they ll instantly dismiss us because "its totally a different thing" even tho its the same old same old :)

The only thing I dont know is what it ll be exactly but I m sure it ll be exciting :)
 

Dooguk

D
TiberiusDuval said:
Even pretty smart people can do that. Its psychological thing. Its pretty hard to admit to yourself that you really have been outwitted by scammer. Thinking goes like "Maybe its just a misundertanding, or baseless accusations and conman will make good on his promises ".
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The investors in these get rich schemes are just greedy. What I don't understand is the amount of money some have put into SC. What did Roberts tell them they would get in return? Did these people have no knowledge of Chis Roberts before investing*?
Maybe Bootcha could help me with this one?

*Is investing the right word?
 

TiberiusDuval

T
Dooguk said:
The investors in these get rich schemes are just greedy. What I don't understand is the amount of money some have put into SC. What did Roberts tell them they would get in return? Did these people have no knowledge of Chis Roberts before investing*?
Maybe Bootcha could help me with this one?

*Is investing the right word?
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Well he sold them best space game ever. And yes it really could have been such, if he had managed to produce what he promised...and I used past tense on purpose.
 

Dooguk

D
TiberiusDuval said:
Well he sold them best space game ever. And yes it really could have been such, if he had managed to produce what he promised...
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Yes but what would you get for your 50k. Surely not just digital spaceships to pretend to fly about in? Were they told they could make x amount of money renting them out or re-selling them?
 

Pug

Pug
Dooguk said:
So all the people who invested with Ponzi, Madoff and the like are idiots?
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Maybe, I don't know them but to me yes
WotGTheAgent said:
It happens all the time with scams; games, companies, cryptocurrencies, anything and everything. If it seems dumb, it is because humans are dumb.

Uh, I hate to say it, but anyone -- no matter how "smart" they are -- can fall for scams, end up being conned, and STILL praise the people that conned them. It's fascinating to read about and there's a ton of great books on the subject. Reading them made me realize anyone is vulnerable, including myself.

There's a lot of factors that go into it, but ultimately it comes down to sunk cost and not wanting to be ashamed you might be that stupid, dumb idiot that gave away thousands of dollars for no reason. You create reasons; you find excuses.

And if you think it can't happen because you're too smart or savvy, you're actually the perfect mark.
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Because you/we think we know better.
Pug
 

MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Dooguk said:
The investors in these get rich schemes are just greedy. What I don't understand is the amount of money some have put into SC. What did Roberts tell them they would get in return? Did these people have no knowledge of Chis Roberts before investing*?
Maybe Bootcha could help me with this one?

*Is investing the right word?
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Another point we had already here. What is it that these investors see in Star Citizen that makes them provide millions? Its hard to visualize that these guys are video game lovers wanting to support the dream. More likely they see a business opportunity that CIG has accepted on their terms. Neither do we know what the interest is nor do we know what the conditions for this buisness arrangement are. What does CIG have that might be of interest?

A video game in the making with potentially high future sales?
A business model with a high sustainability that allows them to receive profits after sales?
User data?
Company access for whatever practices that might be of interest to these companies?

We know Roberts failed to secure any publisher support. Even if he demonstrated his projects viability by now no publisher has approached CIG afterwards in order to "get in" on the money cake. Instead we know of investor companies that have light or no ties to the industry at all. Are all these publishers holding old grudges against Chris Roberts? The sustainability question has clear answers provided CIG doesnt go back on their words. No subscription, no pay to win, ship sales will be gone after release. But they do will have server costs for access because Star Citizen is an online-only game with no mod or private servers. We do know that a lot of money is going through the company. If its all funding from faithful or hopeful backers is a question that we cant check or verify and even the accuracy of the funding tracker is questionable. Each passing month DOES cost a lot of money tho given the size of CIG a whole lot of it. You gotta wonder whats happening because all the money and the effiort does NOT translate into transparency nor progress.

CIG is a pretty shady company in my eyes and while every publisher today shares some of its qualities like greed, deception, manipulation and lies I feel that CiG which had the best start and most of peoples goodwill has developed these things into extremes that makes it the leader of the pack when it comes to predatory and deceptive marketing strategies.
 

TiberiusDuval

T
Dooguk said:
Yes but what would you get for your 50k. Surely not just digital spaceships to pretend to fly about in? Were they told they could make x amount of money renting them out or re-selling them?
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People buy quite many things that are essentially of very little worth and pay exorbitant prices. 50k imaginary space ship after all is just one of those things. It sends message. Buyer of said message though may think that is contains "Yeah, I do not care about such small sums, I have plenty" Though recipients of message may read it as "What gullible fool that guy is."
 

TiberiusDuval

T
MTBFritz said:
Another point we had already here. What is it that these investors see in Star Citizen that makes them provide millions? Its hard to visualize that these guys are video game lovers wanting to support the dream. More likely they see a business opportunity that CIG has accepted on their terms. Neither do we know what the interest is nor do we know what the conditions for this buisness arrangement are. What does CIG have that might be of interest?

A video game in the making with potentially high future sales?
A business model with a high sustainability that allows them to receive profits after sales?
User data?
Company access for whatever practices that might be of interest to these companies?

We know Roberts failed to secure any publisher support. Even if he demonstrated his projects viability by now no publisher has approached CIG afterwards in order to "get in" on the money cake. Instead we know of investor companies that have light or no ties to the industry at all. Are all these publishers holding old grudges against Chris Roberts? The sustainability question has clear answers provided CIG doesnt go back on their words. No subscription, no pay to win, ship sales will be gone after release. But they do will have server costs for access because Star Citizen is an online-only game with no mod or private servers. We do know that a lot of money is going through the company. If its all funding from faithful or hopeful backers is a question that we cant check or verify and even the accuracy of the funding tracker is questionable. Each passing month DOES cost a lot of money tho given the size of CIG a whole lot of it. You gotta wonder whats happening because all the money and the effiort does NOT translate into transparency nor progress.

CIG is a pretty shady company in my eyes and while every publisher today shares some of its qualities like greed, deception, manipulation and lies I feel that CiG which had the best start and most of peoples goodwill has developed these things into extremes that makes it the leader of the pack when it comes to predatory and deceptive marketing strategies.
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Well when it comes such people that really invested money in, not those who made "pledges" I wonder too. Does CR pay return on investements from backers money, or what he exactly promised? Or did he really manage to sell them just a stake in whole venture and investors are waiting CR to deliver? If he did latter then he really IS quite good salesman...
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
MTBFritz said:
Dude, once SC is over there will be the next best thing. We old-timers will be able to use our experience to tell all the youngsters whats what and they will tell us to shut it and hurry with the dying cuz what do we know eh? And when we point and describe our actual experience they ll instantly dismiss us because "its totally a different thing" even tho its the same old same old :)

The only thing I dont know is what it ll be exactly but I m sure it ll be exciting :)
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I generally disregard anyone who tries to insert personal opinion or impart advice with the pretense that they're looking out for my welfare or serving the common good of all mankind via that strictly personal opinion, be it informed or not. I've spent most of my adult life at war, I've ridden motorbikes since before I entered my teens and still do minus a couple of legs I lost somewhere along the way. I can't count the number of well meaning busybodys who still insist on telling me that motorbikes are dangerous death traps because they knew a friend of a friend who was killed on one.

Most of my friends have either been killed through being shot, blown up, had parachutes fail or been killed in car accidents...or just plain died of old age. I've had exactly zero of my many friends over my lifetime die in motorcycle accidents...and I know a lot of bikers. Some people do die on motorcycles of course...and quite regularly...but none of them were me. I've fallen off a few times and picked up a few bits of road rash and broken bones largely due to other irresponsible road users... but that's part of the accepted risk I take every time I strap on a crash helmet. The same goes for every one of the 4,000 odd times I strapped on a parachute or fitted a magazine onto a weapon with the express purpose of using it to cause harm to other human beings. The rule of the gun for a soldier is quite clear, if you're prepared to use one, you must also be prepared to die by one.

Everything is dangerous... or bad for your health or poses a financial risk or is just a plain bad idea...anything from taking sugar in your tea to adding some salt on your chips or eating real butter. I do all of those things...which doesn't mean I'm stupid or irresponsible, just that I'm aware of the risks and that I'm prepared to accept the consequences should things go wrong.

Star Citizen falls roughly into this category, most would be right to insist it's a very bad idea to throw money in support of it and I'd agree whole heartedly should someone value my opinion enough to ask...but some of us will still do it nonetheless, despite the repetitive dire warnings of imminent doom or eternal damnation. :)
 
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VR jefranklin18

VR jefranklin18
ECity said:
Not all scams are obvious.

*SC is obvious, though.
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I think that is the key point, everyone throwing money at Ponzi, Madoff, Bitcoin, Star Citizen, etc. are not aware that they're buying into a scam. It looks legitimate at the time and they quite possibly even did what they considered an appropriate level of due diligence.

However, never doubt the ingenuity of a con artist.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Firkrayt said:
See? CRobber hadn't had to pay for that stuff he sold, just as he said.

I don't understand how he does that, but when Genuine Chris says anything, we hear not what he really implied, but what we think he implied. Several years later it always turns out that he was telling the truth, in the most blunt way possible, we just hadn't got the meaning in time.

CRobber promised that he will treat backers as he does treat publishers - and we bought it, despite knowing all to well how bad he actually treats publishers.
CRobber said that he can't spend five years on making SC, and he had spent nine years (and counting), but not five.
Back in 2012 CRobber said that this is the game while showing us a demo, and we do have a demo instead of the game.

Genuine Roberts is always telling the truth, we just interpret it wrong.
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My god! Its diabolically genius!

He can stand up in court and say every single word he said was the truth!

Here's another one when he said the game would take 2 to 3 years. Any more and it will become stale - He was telling the truth!
 
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