Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

LittleAnt

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MQC said:
Are you telling me that you, as a funder and supporter of this project, willingly accept the 4 year delay of ToW, and almost certain disappearance, for no other reason than "it is not vital to the project"?
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Yes. If it's not vital it can be delayed.
MQC said:
Could you tell me which things from the following list you would willingly accept that finally were not as promised (because they were actually promised years ago in a very different way), and after more than 11 years of waiting?

  • Loading processes in the PU.
  • Separate instances instead of a single reality for all players.
  • Servers that have a hundred players instead of the "thousands" promised.
  • Not total persistence due to removal of "non-priority" entities after x days.
  • Shortcomings in playable mechanics that finally are less deep than initially indicated.

If you would be so kind as to answer me....
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Some of your points are actual limitations that CIG is working to greatly reduce. For example, the "thousands" of players is still the goal and they actively work on it (need server meshing for it). 2 years ago, we played at 50 by servers, now some tests have been done with 200 players.
Shortcoming in playable mechanics ? You talk about the actual version of some mechanisms that will be enhanced with next iterations ? Like the actual bounty hunter V1 which is less deep than the future BH V2 ?
"Loading processes" I dont' see what you talk about. I know one when you go outside of prison (it's a placeholder) and another when you die and respawn (I guess this one will stay).
On a general note, promises are promises. If technically something can't be done as promised because insurmountable difficulties, the promise will be tuned down. As a developer, it doesn't shock me. But at least CIG try to do it (for exemple the multiple iterations on cache systems or the switch from relationnal DB to graph DB). That's the main difference with other game companies that even don't try to do it. CIG experiment and that's why I've funded them and why the alpha is so long.
 
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MQC

MQC
LittleAnt said:
Yes. If it's not vital it can be delayed.
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Not delayed, delayed 4 years and perhaps suspended forever.

LittleAnt said:
"Loading processes" I dont' see what you talk about.
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Sorry, English is not my main language and I have probably explained myself badly.

I mean that, during the gameplay, you have noticeable loading processes, maybe not directly a loading screen as when you initially enter the game, but loading processes camouflaged in, for example, an animation or "minigame" during the jump between systems through Jump Point. I tell you this because CIG has promised a complete universe of hundreds of star systems without loading.

LittleAnt said:
On a general note, promises are promises. If technically something can't be done as promised because insurmountable difficulties, the promise will be tuned down. As a developer, it doesn't shock me. But at least CIG try to do it (for exemple the multiple iterations on cache systems or the switch from relationnal DB to graph DB). That's the main difference with other game companies that even don't try to do it. CIG experiment and that's why I've funded them.
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Promises are promises, and when you promise things in exchange for money, promises become obligations. While perhaps, because of patronage and other falsehoods, CIG might shy away from "legal obligations", what is undoubted is that in 11 years CIG has made many "moral obligations" to its fans.

You still don't answer me; as a developer and fan of the game, which of the things that CIG has been showing and insinuating for 11 years in Letters, AtV, CitizenCons, etc... would you be willing to allow that were far inferior to what was initially announced, or directly not in the final game?
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
LittleAnt said:
Yes. If it's not vital it can be delayed.

Some of your points are actual limitations that CIG is working to greatly reduce. For example, the "thousands" of players is still the goal and they actively work on it (need server meshing for it). 2 years ago, we played at 50 by servers, now some tests have been done with 200 players.
Shortcoming in playable mechanics ? You talk about the actual version of some mechanisms that will be enhanced with next iterations ? Like the actual bounty hunter V1 which is less deep than the future BH V2 ?
"Loading processes" I dont' see what you talk about. I know one when you go outside of prison (it's a placeholder) and another when you die and respawn (I guess this one will stay).
On a general note, promises are promises. If technically something can't be done as promised because insurmountable difficulties, the promise will be tuned down. As a developer, it doesn't shock me. But at least CIG try to do it (for exemple the multiple iterations on cache systems or the switch from relationnal DB to graph DB). That's the main difference with other game companies that even don't try to do it. CIG experiment and that's why I've funded them and why the alpha is so long.
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That isn't experimenting. There is nothing to experiment what isn't technically feasible. CIG doesn't know how to make a game.
They don't know the very basics:
Determining what is doable.
Determining what they can do.
Determining what they need to do it.
Determining time and funds to do it.

That means they don't do promises. A promise means they could check the list - it's just lies.
They are just bumbling around. They lie to consumers, they lie to each other and in the end they shove out broken releases.
 

LittleAnt

L
MQC said:
I mean that, during the gameplay, you have noticeable loading processes, maybe not directly a loading screen as when you initially enter the game, but loading processes camouflaged in, for example, an animation or "minigame" during the jump between systems through Jump Point. I tell you this because CIG has promised a complete universe of hundreds of star systems without loading.
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You have loading/discharging assets on the fly in SC. You can notice it if your system is slow (poor ram and/or poor disk). It's different from the loading screens you have in games (ex : black screen when you enter your ship in Starfield) that "pause" the normal game to load assets. There is no minigame atm that mask loading screen in SC.
We don't know for now if Jump points will use streaming assets or if they they will be loading screens disguised.

I'm not sure that CIG promised no loading screen. They have achived it and are proud of it but I don't recall they promised it.
 

McGlashan

McGlashan
Navigare Necesse Est said:
That isn't experimenting. There is nothing to experiment what isn't technically feasible. CIG doesn't know how to make a game.
They don't know the very basics:
Determining what is doable.
Determining what they can do.
Determining what they need to do it.
Determining time and funds to do it.

That means they don't do promises. A promise means they could check the list - it's just lies.
They are just bumbling around. They lie to consumers, they lie to each other and in the end they shove out broken releases.
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Coincidentally I was just watching this completely unrelated clip, and when he talks about the difference between "thinkers" and "doers" it immediately brought to mind Roberts, the "visionary" with all the big ideas who essentially ignores the reality of what's practical, or even possible, because "doing" it is for the little people.

 

LittleAnt

L
thistle said:
Two of those things are whale marketing, the other is a sort of game loop to be fair.
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Lol. Whale marketing for 2 real major techs. If FDEV had upgraded its generation of renderer like CIG, perhaps Odyssey could have been in VR... But I understand why they haven't done it, it costs a hell of money to do it.
And the other is a really chill and good game loop, you should try it in game.
 

thistle

T
LittleAnt said:
Lol. Whale marketing for 2 real major techs. If FDEV had upgraded its generation of renderer like CIG, perhaps Odyssey could have been in VR... But I understand why they haven't done it, it costs a hell of money to do it.
And the other is a really chill and good game loop, you should try it in game.
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Odyssey is in VR champ.
 
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