Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Well now ED has legs SC could fight back by refuelling from Gas Giants :)



Goodbye Dan, you did good work but sooner or later you'll say something is impossible or ridiculous or make some other factual statement and that will be the end of that. You could change from being German to Geryessir but that would make you hate yourself and your job.
Why not? I change from German to all kinds every day.
 
If you put an infinite amount of Chris Roberts' into a room with an infinite amount of PC's and gave them an infinite amount of time I'm betting they still wouldn't be able to produce the game 'Pong'.

8 years later

"We are starting to plan the design for how the atoms in the ball will interact with the environment. Furthermore, in order to implement the bounce mechanics we are currently working on our new proprietary physics system which we are calling Bounce Container Streaming and we hope to have the Tier 0 implementation with you soon. Meanwhile, we have added more balls to the store. Pledge now for our new Sphere Mark 20, which bounces above its weight!"
 
I see Elite Dangerous on sale for about $8. This $8 also includes the Horizons space go-kart gameplay.

Remind me, has SC ever reduced the price on, say, all mining spaceships and vehicles? Or bundled more things into their starter pack?
Nope. But then again, the word 'sale' doesn't mean the same thing to Ci¬G's marketing department as it does to the rest of the known world. :)
 
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Don't worry folks, everything is good.

So development only started in 2019 cause that's the year when CIG had more than 600 employees and Rockstar had 600 employees on Red Dead 2.
His whole argument not even taking into account what those employees are actually doing or if Rockstar had 600 people working on it during the whole 8 years of development...


Comments are funny :

As long as CIG continues to put out the development updates and maintain the level of transparency that they have so far, I see no reason to stop supporting them considering that what they're doing has the potential to completely shake the gaming industry to its core if it succeeds; if Star Citizen releases as a successful product, it will stand as an example that quality over quantity can be successful, and we could potentially see something of a Renaissance within the gaming industry where developers will start giving games the time they need to release as a finished product rather than a rushed hack-job made by overworked employees suffering from crunch.

Build a game in 10 years? Yes, that is slow! Start a company from the ground up and have a playable demo after 10 years(a demo of one of the most ambitious games ever, mind you), completly reasonable and actually impressive development speed. And one more thing that we need to keep in mind is that I expect that soon, after they finish more backend tech, to have an explosion of content that we can see: planets, ships, equipment, mission types etc

The CR vision is, if achieved, something that will revolutionise gaming.
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I see Elite Dangerous on sale for about $8. This $8 also includes the Horizons space go-kart gameplay.

Remind me, has SC ever reduced the price on, say, all mining spaceships and vehicles? Or bundled more things into their starter pack?
You must be confused. As with real estate, SC, ship jpgs and SQ42 can only go up in price. Tis the one and only video game that just will not depreciate.
 
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So development only started in 2019 cause that's the year when CIG had more than 600 employees and Rockstar had 600 employees on Red Dead 2.
His whole argument not even taking into account what those employees are actually doing or if Rockstar had 600 people working on it during the whole 8 years of development...


Comments are funny :

As long as CIG continues to put out the development updates and maintain the level of transparency that they have so far, I see no reason to stop supporting them considering that what they're doing has the potential to completely shake the gaming industry to its core if it succeeds; if Star Citizen releases as a successful product, it will stand as an example that quality over quantity can be successful, and we could potentially see something of a Renaissance within the gaming industry where developers will start giving games the time they need to release as a finished product rather than a rushed hack-job made by overworked employees suffering from crunch.

Build a game in 10 years? Yes, that is slow! Start a company from the ground up and have a playable demo after 10 years(a demo of one of the most ambitious games ever, mind you), completly reasonable and actually impressive development speed. And one more thing that we need to keep in mind is that I expect that soon, after they finish more backend tech, to have an explosion of content that we can see: planets, ships, equipment, mission types etc

The CR vision is, if achieved, something that will revolutionise gaming.

Its really interesting and funny.

Potential to shake the game industry if it succeeds? More like shake the legal system in relation to kickstarters if it fails. Also its a huge IF in relation to success. I'm sure they will eventually have to say its released, even if that points comes because they have run out of money or because CR dies of old age, but whether it will be a success and with what yardstick success will be measured remains to be seen.

However, one thing is certain, it will never be the game sold to backers, not the game they sold it 2012 or the game they have sold to date with everything CR said "yes" to.
 
Its really interesting and funny.

Potential to shake the game industry if it succeeds? More like shake the legal system in relation to kickstarters if it fails. Also its a huge IF in relation to success. I'm sure they will eventually have to say its released, even if that points comes because they have run out of money or because CR dies of old age, but whether it will be a success and with what yardstick success will be measured remains to be seen.

However, one thing is certain, it will never be the game sold to backers, not the game they sold it 2012 or the game they have sold to date with everything CR said "yes" to.

Also every year that goes by that it's not released sees an improvement in games and technology that may make SC old and dated by the time it is released.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
So development only started in 2019 cause that's the year when CIG had more than 600 employees and Rockstar had 600 employees on Red Dead 2.
His whole argument not even taking into account what those employees are actually doing or if Rockstar had 600 people working on it during the whole 8 years of development...


Comments are funny :

As long as CIG continues to put out the development updates and maintain the level of transparency that they have so far, I see no reason to stop supporting them considering that what they're doing has the potential to completely shake the gaming industry to its core if it succeeds; if Star Citizen releases as a successful product, it will stand as an example that quality over quantity can be successful, and we could potentially see something of a Renaissance within the gaming industry where developers will start giving games the time they need to release as a finished product rather than a rushed hack-job made by overworked employees suffering from crunch.

Build a game in 10 years? Yes, that is slow! Start a company from the ground up and have a playable demo after 10 years(a demo of one of the most ambitious games ever, mind you), completly reasonable and actually impressive development speed. And one more thing that we need to keep in mind is that I expect that soon, after they finish more backend tech, to have an explosion of content that we can see: planets, ships, equipment, mission types etc

The CR vision is, if achieved, something that will revolutionise gaming.

The total developer numbers comparison is silly because by the same token RDR2 didnt have 1600 devs each and every year and furthermore we do not know if those 1600 were full time dedicated to RDR2 while we do know all CIG´s staff is 100% dedicated full time to SC. The author of the video seems completely oblivious to the concept of full time equivalent. Last but not least the Rockstar dev figures quoted by the author of the video also do not clearly show how many of those were external to Rockstar, and so comparing those figures to the CIG staff figures alone may be misleading.

A much more fair comparison is to be made based just on the actual money spent in development, from which we can derive an estimate of full time equivalent.

- SC has spent around 300 407 MM USD so far (no dedicated marketing campaign yet) in around 9 years.

- RDR2 spent in development (excluding marketing) 170 - 240 MM USD in 8 years ("Analyst estimations place the game's development budget between US$170 million and US$240 million, and its marketing budget between US$200 and US$300 million")

If we just normalize both projects to an arbitrary full time equivalent anual gross cost (including salary, social charges, overheads and external costs etc), say 100K USD per year per individual for example (but we can use any other arbitrary figure, it does not matter) then we get:

SC: 300 407 MM / 100K / 9 years = 330 452 full time equivalent individuals in average in any given year since 2012
RDR2: 205 MM / 100K / 8 years = 256 full time equivalent individuals in average in any given year of their 8 years development (and which incidentally is the same conclusion and logic used by the source of the RDR2 figures: "So I’ll take Pachter’s estimate and beef it up some, so that maybe 300 people worked for eight years at $100,000, on average. That gets us to $240 million in development costs for the game.").

Unless Rockstar salaries, overhead and external costs are dramatically lower than CIG´s it is quite clear CIG has produced much much much less than Rockstar (actually zero delivery from CIG versus a GOTY and classic from Rockstar) with around 29 75% more man power than Rockstar on average, and in a longer time frame that is still growing. CIG´s 9+ years do matter and are important.

The other explanation is that that CIG´s manpower (and its management) is much much much more incompetent and inefficient than Rockstar´s.

Edit: Edited for a more accurate 407 MM USD actually spent by CIG to date, instead of 300.
 
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