Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

I explained my reasoning.

Among Us is a complete game, i'm not knocking it its quite a good fun little game but its not comparable to SC.

The amount of work in SC is mahoosive, its already vastly bigger than anything i have ever seen,, its taken me several hundreds of hours to white-box this out, and it is just a crude white-box model, months of my free time, a Carrack is hundreds if not thousands of times more work and that's just one of over 100 ships, and the ships are a tiny fraction of the total work in the game.

Unless you can appreciate that, with respect :) You don't know what you're talking about.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ3GuqrQZKo

I think we all understand how much work is required and actually part of my point. And you may note i said "I would say" in my statement. You're entitled to your opinion and i'm entitled to mine.

Its just a shame Chris didn't realize how much work he was promising to do when he kept saying yes to stuff.
 
Again, i remain against this practice. I'm not sure why you're struggling understanding that. It doesn't matter which company does it. Paid for promotions is effectively paying people to shill.
IMO a sponsored stream/video is a pretty honest "company x gave cash to play their product" so as long as it's up-front it's OK. Not great, for sure, but fine.

It's the other stuff (free game content/dlc/ships/access/etc that player has on an on-going basis) that's more insidious.

YMMV.
 
The amount of work in SC is mahoosive, its already vastly bigger than anything i have ever seen,, its taken me several hundreds of hours to white-box this out, and it is just a crude white-box model, months of my free time, a Carrack is hundreds if not thousands of times more work and that's just one of over 100 ships, and the ships are a tiny fraction of the total work in the game.

Unless you can appreciate that, with respect :) You don't know what you're talking about.
There's no doubt about the amount of work SC has done. The doubt comes in when you consider whether it's nearly half a billion dollars and about ten million person-hours of work.

Because from what I've seen of SC so far, both in-game and on streams, I don't see that much results from the time and money sunk into this project. Primarily because they are not at a stage of develop where they should be putting that much time and money into art assets, because they've only now figured out that a core system won't work as they want it to, a core system that wasn't complete in the first place, and are having to redo that core... and that means more work will need to be redone on everything that core system interacts with.

CIG's development very much reminds me of something that drives me up the wall at work. Many of our stockers believe in looking productive, and not being productive, which means they hide overstock on the sales floor so that they've "killed a pallet", rather than process that overstock correctly. Processing that overstock correctly is actually faster for them, and down the road saves a lot more effort.

Because correcting inventory errors immediately prevents more overstock coming in the future, clogging up our back room, and making everything more difficult.

But because they're giving our supervisors the illusion of productivity, it means that those errors don't get fixed. It also exacerbates the problem, because that hidden overstock could further exacerbate the problem because it won't get counted during the occasional verification checks, it may get counted as the item its hidden behind (usually they're behind similar items) leading to an inflated onhand and thus lost sales (which is what usually triggers verification checks), and of course once found, it needs to be repackaged and put in the back room.

Where it should've gone in the first place, and would've been removed long ago, if they had done things the right way.

Because CIG wants the illusion of a working AAA space MMO, as opposed to doing the right thing to actually make a AAA space MMO, they've wasted nearly half a billion dollars, and are being outdone by tiny studios that count themselves lucky if they can raise a million dollars. Not in the art department, certainly, but in the gameplay department, the AI department, the networking department, and pretty much every other category that matters to anyone for whom visuals are a minor concern.

Why doesn't CIG do it the right way? Because Roberts discovered with the Kickstarter that by lying through impressive looking machinima videos done "in engine" brings in a lot of cash, and if CIG's UK company reflect the whole, the Roberts clan is siphoning away at least a tithe of all income.
 
IMO a sponsored stream/video is a pretty honest "company x gave cash to play their product" so as long as it's up-front it's OK. Not great, for sure, but fine.

It's the other stuff (free game content/dlc/ships/access/etc that player has on an on-going basis) that's more insidious.

YMMV.
I agree.

But for the longest time streamers didn't have to be upfront about that kind of thing.

What annoys me about this is that while this may be ubiquitous (and IMO disingeneous) marketing tactic is less that CIG did it during that era, but because one of the selling points of their continuing crowd funded project is that they wouldn't spend a dime on marketing like those "evil publishers" do, and they clearly broke that promise right away, long before the Calders investment that would be allegedly earmarked for marketing.
 
If any of you good people would like to better understand what kind of tradeoffs online games need to face, please watch these videos (selective interaction / rendering culling):

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mGWm3jySLk

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNBc_LEr0T8

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNjQ7zUYUQ

Planetside 2 can suffer from a lot of desync and performance issues after years of improvements, even if what they did is, in a way, state of the art:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9_IWyH4W2I

Generally, these are the same tradeoffs CI will have to compromise on to bring SC to a working state. No matter the mass of Chris Roberts' ego, it is not large enough to bend the laws of physics.
 
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Everyone doing something bad doesn't make it good.

Its like when kids are asked by their parents "Why did you do that thing?" and they respond "Well, everyone else was doing it!"

Its not a good answer.

I don't like it, but can't avoid all companies that do it, but i can still object to the practice.
The assertion that anyone was saying it was good was simply one you imagined people were making so you could get upset and claim a moral high ground where none existed
 
The meditool rufies are getting as boring as random trolls blocking hospital doors with trolleys and debris so once you respawn you can't get out :cautious:
Basic problem: More you have stuff you can do in-game more ways certain people can troll other players. Solution sadly would be out-game, basically banning known trolls for good. It is like having unmoderated discussion forum, sooner or later bad elements take over, and drive away normal users.
These kind of games with very reluctant adminstrators turn to cesspool of trolling....
 
There's no doubt about the amount of work SC has done. The doubt comes in when you consider whether it's nearly half a billion dollars and about ten million person-hours of work.

Because from what I've seen of SC so far, both in-game and on streams, I don't see that much results from the time and money sunk into this project. Primarily because they are not at a stage of develop where they should be putting that much time and money into art assets, because they've only now figured out that a core system won't work as they want it to, a core system that wasn't complete in the first place, and are having to redo that core... and that means more work will need to be redone on everything that core system interacts with.

CIG's development very much reminds me of something that drives me up the wall at work. Many of our stockers believe in looking productive, and not being productive, which means they hide overstock on the sales floor so that they've "killed a pallet", rather than process that overstock correctly. Processing that overstock correctly is actually faster for them, and down the road saves a lot more effort.

Because correcting inventory errors immediately prevents more overstock coming in the future, clogging up our back room, and making everything more difficult.

But because they're giving our supervisors the illusion of productivity, it means that those errors don't get fixed. It also exacerbates the problem, because that hidden overstock could further exacerbate the problem because it won't get counted during the occasional verification checks, it may get counted as the item its hidden behind (usually they're behind similar items) leading to an inflated onhand and thus lost sales (which is what usually triggers verification checks), and of course once found, it needs to be repackaged and put in the back room.

Where it should've gone in the first place, and would've been removed long ago, if they had done things the right way.

Because CIG wants the illusion of a working AAA space MMO, as opposed to doing the right thing to actually make a AAA space MMO, they've wasted nearly half a billion dollars, and are being outdone by tiny studios that count themselves lucky if they can raise a million dollars. Not in the art department, certainly, but in the gameplay department, the AI department, the networking department, and pretty much every other category that matters to anyone for whom visuals are a minor concern.

Why doesn't CIG do it the right way? Because Roberts discovered with the Kickstarter that by lying through impressive looking machinima videos done "in engine" brings in a lot of cash, and if CIG's UK company reflect the whole, the Roberts clan is siphoning away at least a tithe of all income.

I think part of the problem also stems from the fact that you don't tell Chris "no" or "It can't be done" or "it shouldn't be done". He expects yes answers only. So when CR waved his hands and told people he wanted something, they just said yes sir, 3 bags full sir, then went away to try and do what he wanted. Nobody wanted to report failure, so they kept inventing excuses as to why they couldn't do it right now, invented new tech that needed to be done first (ideally by another department, let it be their problem, give me some breathing space). And this probably went on since the start, devs kicking the can down the road so they don't have to tell Chris it can't be done or shouldn't be done.
 
The assertion that anyone was saying it was good was simply one you imagined people were making so you could get upset and claim a moral high ground where none existed

But i never said anyone said it was a good thing. You just invented that.

It was more of a case of "meh, everyone does it anyway so why make an issue of it?". Because i still don't like the practice.
 
I explained my reasoning.

Among Us is a complete game, i'm not knocking it its quite a good fun little game but its not comparable to SC.

The amount of work in SC is mahoosive, its already vastly bigger than anything i have ever seen,, its taken me several hundreds of hours to white-box this out, and it is just a crude white-box model, months of my free time, a Carrack is hundreds if not thousands of times more work and that's just one of over 100 ships, and the ships are a tiny fraction of the total work in the game.

Unless you can appreciate that, with respect :) You don't know what you're talking about.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ3GuqrQZKo
There is 100 flyable ships now? I kinda doubt it and you're just exaggerating for the cause but the real point is how ridiculous it is to claim it's fast going when it's 10 years and they weren't even able to get the networking solution figured out. And flat out failed to deliver what they sold to people. Picking up speed and coming together, right?
 
The amount of work in SC is mahoosive, its already vastly bigger than anything i have ever seen,, its taken me several hundreds of hours to white-box this out, and it is just a crude white-box model, months of my free time, a Carrack is hundreds if not thousands of times more work and that's just one of over 100 ships, and the ships are a tiny fraction of the total work in the game.

Unless you can appreciate that, with respect :) You don't know what you're talking about.
We here don't understand game development. If we did, we would be swimming in four hundreds of millions, not posting here.
 
Plus you need to this particular challenge of door development into account. That alone must have consumed 100 m bucks. Minimum. And perpetual story telling another 100 million but it enables Zyloh, Carpendale and what's all their names to re-narrate project milestones over and over even when noth was ever done.
 
There is 100 flyable ships now? I kinda doubt it and you're just exaggerating for the cause

There are actually about that many at 'flight ready' status. If you exclude the skin variants, exactly 100 in fact. And with the 400i that's 101 now I guess:

Source: https://twitter.com/ColMovers/status/1403324199360401414


That's a lotta assets. (If not always a lot of promised game mechanics ;))

The missing ones are mainly the big complex expensive ones.

but the real point is how ridiculous it is to claim it's fast going when it's 10 years and they weren't even able to get the networking solution figured out. And flat out failed to deliver what they sold to people. Picking up speed and coming together, right?

(y)

This. Very much this.
 
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