Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

What's bad is giving a company with more money than any other game company out there cart blanche with regards to they can do no wrong. Idc how good SC is or will be in some future far off land.
I'm sorry what? That is absolute and utter b*llocks (damn you curse filter). Is CIG making 5.6 billion $ in revenue anually like EA? No I do not think so.
 
Anyway, back to journalism, and its interesting to note that fans never criticize the puff pieces praising CIG when all they do is regurgitate what CIG say with no fact checking either.

Its like calling BoredGamer a journalist.
BoredGamer and DaGaimez always impressed - not with their opinions, but how they could take a single bullet point in any missive from CIG and expound/theorycraft on it for any length of time.

I wonder if Montoya has official press credentials?
 
Ship interiors for every ship, or just cockpits? If fdev had tried to do the entire ships first they would have had the same problem as SC. Spending many years building lots of unique fps levels and then trying to get a space sim built around it after the event.

Criticisms of fdev are valid, mostly speed of development, but the way they developed the game in terms of the sequence of design I think was right. They just haven't followed through.

Common sense is fine. Acknowledging that the kickstarter marketing statements that they considered ship interior layouts would have been an unfortunate exaggeration that morphed into a lie after neglect... a cut of what they're doing for carrier interiors for ships would be totally fine. Im pretty sure all the discussions i ever was involved in during better days assumed that. Modelling every inch of the ship was only ever used as an angry demand by people who never wanted ship interiors or were defending frontier for not doing it. Noone who wanted interiors ever expected this (because its not reasonable).

If walking around rp isn't enough, see all the suggestions for gameplay that would check out for gameplayers, especially mine! (subnautica).

Also i haven't followed SC in a few years, but err, 3 or 4 years ago, it was the case that the ship team in sc was the only functional team that was producing anything and not just going sideways. Allowing the same expectation for frontier in case they need it, ship interiors seem to check out as the lowest hanging fruit in space game features in case medium size coding shops are difficult.

But why would getting involved with that be terrible? You're not joining some criminal organisation or anything, lol. Get SC if you like what you see right now, not what is going to be coming when its eventually out of Alpha. Buying SC is like buying any other game, except you're buying an Alpha with no sign of releasing anytime soon, you just have to be willing to go along for the development ride.

The willingness to exploit players, and what goes on in their community to facilitate it. Having said, elite is just as bad now. I shouldn't be surprised really, when something has turned away the greater wave of sane people, there's going to be a higher representation of apologists. Makes sense for both communities.

Also just in case, elite gets through my radar because it goes the other way. There's no comparisons to rockstar required.. elite because of how harsh the mvp attitude has been actually validly compares to titles that are a few leagues below it. Namely the truck simulators, tourist bus simulator, all those 2 bit games. But oddly what happens is because such a bare showing is made by a larger studio, it also displays depth and quality greater than what that little indie pool can achieve, so actually checks out favorably. Its an odd scenario, i wouldn't be proud of it personally, but they did create a subdominant cuttlefish scenario that works. Its also the case for all their titles funnily enough.. i used to think of them as 'kings of the bargain bin' when i liked frontier better.

The stock price reflecting their development is karma enough :)

Also, i want to make a quick nod to farming simulator which has actually grown itself out of it. But oddly are displaying traces of frontierishness every release..

Yeah fair point that following development can be fun in itself, but star citizen has the same problem as elite.. there's alot of marketing that leads to far more underwhelming patches than you're lead to believe, every time. Does sc do this better? Its so bad here even the apologists in elite have given up on elite and just harass players now.

Ooof, i'm glad they didn't.

I'm now convinced that space legs don't make any sense without ship interiors.

Its basically the same level of unserviced as classic space game content using a text menu as a placeholder. Some people are okay with this / got used to it. Some people never forgot (what other games have defined the expectation as in the last 20 years).
 
I have spent the last the last 4 weeks playing Icarus, about 150 hours in those 4 weeks, now i'm bored stupid by it.

I'm tired of getting no more than a few weeks entertainment out of games, i'm tired of the industry copying eachother, ARK, Rust, Scum, Icarus they are all the same game with different themes and i never lasted for more than a few weeks in any of them.

The gaming industry is out of ideas and very risk averse, its the grey gruel of mediocrity that perpetually leaves you dissatisfied.

I'm going to say it and hate on me all you like, Star Citizen is the only thing that makes me feel the way i did about games 30 years ago.
All those games offer slightly different takes on similar things. If you check out the stats, apparently those differences are enjoyed by a lot of people. But if you're having that feeling of being bored by it, that type of game is maybe just not your cup of tea anymore, if it was before. It's ok. I think all those games you listed are doing fairly decent, numberswise, anyways. Those same people may try your beloved SC and find it utter hogwash or a big scam, since it is. They may not enjoy that. It's ok.

Im not surprised you're enjoying SC but what is surprising is that you're happy with it as is. The more you support it, as is, the more it doesn't need to change. If someone is giving you money, as you remove things from the roadmap, then you'd continue removing things, no? You cant even jump to a second system yet. Wake up! If you enjoy SC and want that feeling to continue, by them adding or revealing more stuff, then stop rewarding them with money. Not you specifically, I mean stop encouraging others to give them money.


I'm sorry what? That is absolute and utter b*llocks (damn you curse filter). Is CIG making 5.6 billion $ in revenue anually like EA? No I do not think so.
EA says they'll make a game, and they do, and release them, and they get a lot of flack but also a lot of bucks for it. Actually, all other game companies do that...very backwards to CIG. Or are you suggesting CIg would make more money by releasing a game? I'd agree there.
 
Common sense is fine. Acknowledging that the kickstarter marketing statements that they considered ship interior layouts would have been an unfortunate exaggeration that morphed into a lie after neglect... a cut of what they're doing for carrier interiors for ships would be totally fine. Im pretty sure all the discussions i ever was involved in during better days assumed that. Modelling every inch of the ship was only ever used as an angry demand by people who never wanted ship interiors or were defending frontier for not doing it. Noone who wanted interiors ever expected this (because its not reasonable).

If walking around rp isn't enough, see all the suggestions for gameplay that would check out for gameplayers, especially mine! (subnautica).

Also i haven't followed SC in a few years, but err, 3 or 4 years ago, it was the case that the ship team in sc was the only functional team that was producing anything and not just going sideways. Allowing the same expectation for frontier in case they need it, ship interiors seem to check out as the lowest hanging fruit in space game features in case medium size coding shops are difficult.



The willingness to exploit players, and what goes on in their community to facilitate it. Having said, elite is just as bad now. I shouldn't be surprised really, when something has turned away the greater wave of sane people, there's going to be a higher representation of apologists. Makes sense for both communities.

Also just in case, elite gets through my radar because it goes the other way. There's no comparisons to rockstar required.. elite because of how harsh the mvp attitude has been actually validly compares to titles that are a few leagues below it. Namely the truck simulators, tourist bus simulator, all those 2 bit games. But oddly what happens is because such a bare showing is made by a larger studio, it also displays depth and quality greater than what that little indie pool can achieve, so actually checks out favorably. Its an odd scenario, i wouldn't be proud of it personally, but they did create a subdominant cuttlefish scenario that works. Its also the case for all their titles funnily enough.. i used to think of them as 'kings of the bargain bin' when i liked frontier better.

The stock price reflecting their development is karma enough :)

Also, i want to make a quick nod to farming simulator which has actually grown itself out of it. But oddly are displaying traces of frontierishness every release..

Yeah fair point that following development can be fun in itself, but star citizen has the same problem as elite.. there's alot of marketing that leads to far more underwhelming patches than you're lead to believe, every time. Does sc do this better? Its so bad here even the apologists in elite have given up on elite and just harass players now.



I'm now convinced that space legs don't make any sense without ship interiors.

Its basically the same level of unserviced as classic space game content using a text menu as a placeholder. Some people are okay with this / got used to it. Some people never forgot (what other games have defined the expectation as in the last 20 years).
I'd say ETS and ATS, which came from those 18 Wheels of Steel days, is at least up there with Farming Simulator, if not still ahead of it.

And there's no need for ship interiors without space legs. But thats an order of operation thing, and they literally went feet first. This whole thing about interiors reminded me of ships having destructable models instead of just the paint being chipped away. Is it still the case that the Anaconda is the only ship that has that? But, there has been no outcry, really, for the other ships to do the same. What Im getting at is that FDev did that on purpose, as with other things, and they'd make more ships destructable if needed. But clearly its not. Also, they believed the majority of their player base didnt want legs, but somehow with the release of Odysseys legs, the players all swear they want and have always wanted interiors. Where CIG is trying to do everything all at once, even though, ultimately, noone may care of their ships were destructable, or after a few trips down the hallway, ship interiors. At the end of the day, it's the gameplay that is wanted.
 
I'd say ETS and ATS, which came from those 18 Wheels of Steel days, is at least up there with Farming Simulator, if not still ahead of it.

Also, they believed the majority of their player base didnt want legs, but somehow with the release of Odysseys legs, the players all swear they want and have always wanted interiors. Where CIG is trying to do everything all at once, even though, ultimately, noone may care of their ships were destructable, or after a few trips down the hallway, ship interiors. At the end of the day, it's the gameplay that is wanted.

I mainly play ats, just because i joined later and ets has content that is too old. They're great and do the opposite, come accross better than they should for what it is. They seem to have the business model nailed as well.. its always priced just under triggering expensive, but because they're so frequent for ats, you end up spending much more than youd expect.

It makes me sick in the stomach every time the apologists demand to take the forum literally. I think genuine experience playing the game would define what's needed and valid for elite. Wanting to make the title respectable in its own right would easily define a way forward that is universally accepted. But they're here to mvp and don't demonstrate playing their own game via the incomprehensibility of feature design. If only we could as a community help there.

Interiors add value if anything by providing substance. Sure, there is a mechanic now, but just as a raw mousewheel loop its just as invalid and dismissable. Imagine combat / mining and trading without the space for the space game.

ps. If people just want grind loops, you're going to be much better served by blizzard games. They overtly focus on gameplay that is addictive and repetitive... for just "gaming" like that you could be better served elsewhere.
 
I'm now convinced that space legs don't make any sense without ship interiors.

Its basically the same level of unserviced as classic space game content using a text menu as a placeholder. Some people are okay with this / got used to it. Some people never forgot (what other games have defined the expectation as in the last 20 years).

My concern is the same as has already been stated. If FD had gone that route release would have come much later.
 
My concern is the same as has already been stated. If FD had gone that route release would have come much later.
Lets flip that idea. What if SC had been released, only with the ability to fly the ship, no legs or anything, but it ran smoothly. What is ED at, 60+ always? I'd say SC would be doing better. List the things ED has now, and if that's what SC had in it, the ability to jump to other systems, the 101 systems there, and even with walking, no smooth transition into the seat, I'd bet they'd have way more people enjoying it and it'd be actually released, so the scam part disappears...ala you buy it, as is, and thats on you...no promises matter anymore.

I see the whole ships sale thing as an unintended distraction. They meant what they said back at the start, but they make so much off the ship sales, none of that matters anymore.
 
My concern is the same as has already been stated. If FD had gone that route release would have come much later.
Speculating alternate or even possible realities on frontier has never worked out so i try not to do it..

But since you started, id probably suspect the exact opposite. Given that the current mvp for gamplay requires integration with the bgs at surprisingly deep levels.. and the worst case mvp they could have gotten away with for ship interiors is a single player map with another set of bobblehead positions and a few ui panels... plus reworking the ramp model for each ship.. are you sure its quite heavily not the other way around?

The gameplay on offer would be the existing space game and whatever else they could manage. That's how horizons worked on launch. They went full disconnect here for some reason..???

Sure in general though, why some form of development team could only produce odd when they started in late 2017 beats me. Given how incomplete the alpha was, there's no way that most of odd would *not have been done in the immediate months before. I doubt they would sit on such an unfinished game and do nothing for 2 years to launch it as is.

Anyways, water under the bridge. Apart from reasonable testing post patch, ive decided to only see horizons, so quite okay with elite atm.
 
Last edited:
Is griefing actually a problem in star citizen? A friends partner apparently quit because of it, or because they're not doing anything about it etc not sure. I havent spoken to him exactly about it yet so we haven't got past the 'scam' discussion yet. Just wondering :p

Sounds like such an odd place. A magnet for the socially undesirable who just want to white knight something and be affirmed online for acting in ways that would see them shunned and outcast in real life. Some sort of cult who need to keep culting because the game never releases and without crowdfunding they'll never be made whole. All these seemingly nice people yet are still culting. And pvp griefers too?

Yeah im both very happy to wait and looking forward to when its finished so can have a real go at it. As an elite player, the ship purchasing sounds so dumb because i absolutely hated it when frontier kneejerked and turned it off when steam reviews complained about credits. I liked that progression in sandbox games because it forces you to rp (or give up) at some point.
 
Lets flip that idea. What if SC had been released, only with the ability to fly the ship, no legs or anything, but it ran smoothly. What is ED at, 60+ always? I'd say SC would be doing better. List the things ED has now, and if that's what SC had in it, the ability to jump to other systems, the 101 systems there, and even with walking, no smooth transition into the seat, I'd bet they'd have way more people enjoying it and it'd be actually released, so the scam part disappears...ala you buy it, as is, and thats on you...no promises matter anymore.

I see the whole ships sale thing as an unintended distraction. They meant what they said back at the start, but they make so much off the ship sales, none of that matters anymore.

Well, that's assuming Chris "Flidelity" Roberts didn't get in the way of it releasing :p

But yeah, if SC had everything ED had then they would have fulfilled a lot of their stretch goals (nowhere near what they have promised overall though) and it would be releasable and probably a good game.

I'm not sure it would actually be possible though, it would be a big ask to do all that in 10 years.
 
Space Tomato asks the question if SC is ready for new players


Up front i'll say not watched it, its an hour i don't have right now. However, posting because while he tends to fall on the side of dreamer at times, i do love his voice and i think he is at least internally honest. I don't think he is shilling for CIG, although as a content creator he is obviously interested in his channel's growth and income which could sway his opinions.

My guess is the conclusion is along the lines of yes, its ready, with some caveats. But if anyone watches it all they can correct me.
 
I see the whole ships sale thing as an unintended distraction. They meant what they said back at the start, but they make so much off the ship sales, none of that matters anymore.

Apparently that's not an issue anymore? d2ea educated at one point that its within elite level grinds to get most? of the sc ships by gameplay.. the only thing you have to not mind are server wipes? If that's true that's alright. Maybe when they make solo server, or a guild wars style stations == lobby, space == some sort of controllable instance setup that would be good too. I know its not happening but other games aren't going away etc.
 
Back
Top Bottom