Star Citizen Thread v6

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Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
So they're not going into space they're just flying up really high.

Unless they demonstrate flying from the surface to one of their stations it's safe to assume they can't do it and all this is just a big map unconnected to the rest of the game.

Yeah - it (certainly gave the impression that it) looks like it's just a big map in isolation. They never just shoot off in one direction so it's not possible to see if there's a limit to the map area, or if it is a proper "moon" (although they wouldn't get very far before the server reset anyway) and they always eject when high up (for no reason).
 
You know you can be in space but not in orbit? If you flew half way to the moon but were not in orbit and got out you would fall down to earth.

Yes but there would be a clear difference in gravity. What spacebum is saying is that "unitl it can be clearly demonstrated, it appears this is just a standalone map and is not in any way connected to the rest of SC."
 
Yes but there would be a clear difference in gravity. What spacebum is saying is that "unitl it can be clearly demonstrated, it appears this is just a standalone map and is not in any way connected to the rest of SC."

I'm fairly sure they said that is the case for the purpose of this demo.

Can you explain what you mean with the gravity thing?
 
You know you can be in space but not in orbit? If you flew half way to the moon but were not in orbit and got out you would fall down to earth.

Yes well done.

Now show me where this game enables you to fly from the surface of a planet into space and land on a space station, which is what they've been promising. All the stream is showing is people flying up, then bailing out. Right now it looks like they've been told not to go to far for fear of it revealing the border of the map, or the game isn't letting them do it. It's just a big map, it is not part of the larger game.

I'm fairly sure they said that is the case for the purpose of this demo.

Can you explain what you mean with the gravity thing?

So they've got nothing. They've spent a year working on this patch and what they have to show for it is a cryengine map. And it's not even working properly as it is.

But yeah these guys will totally build a massive space MMO with realistic physics and seamless surface-space transition and the millions of other things they've promised. That's what I - someone who has just sustained a serious head injury - believes.
 
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Yes well done.

Now show me where this game enables you to fly from the surface of a planet into space and land on a space station, which is what they've been promising. All the stream is showing is people flying up, then bailing out. Right now it looks like they've been told not to go to far for fear of it revealing the border of the map, or the game isn't letting them do it. It's just a big map, it is not part of the larger game.

There is no larger game it's an alpha. 3.0 will be a slice of the larger game limited to a few moons. This is a pre 3.0 demo. I don't follow I'm sorry :)
 
I'm fairly sure they said that is the case for the purpose of this demo.

Can you explain what you mean with the gravity thing?

If you get far enough away from a large body of mass the effect of gravity will be reduced. If they have a real working simulation and not a cryengine map, then reaching a certain distance from a planet would result in a reduced rate of fall towards that planet.

I'm going to guess, however, that they don't let you get that far away (because again, it's probably just a cryengine map that demonstrates the "experience" of planet side "action" in star citizen. (coming soon!) (December) (maybe?)"
 
There is no larger game it's an alpha. 3.0 will be a slice of the larger game limited to a few moons. This is a pre 3.0 demo. I don't follow I'm sorry :)

But they've already got a bit of space with space stations, why is that not part of this?

They've turned up to a games show demonstrating a DEMO (and a broken one at that) of an update for a PRE-ALPHA. A demo that's been worked on for a year, as part of a project that's now been ongoing since 2011.

thisisfinedog.jpg
 
There is no larger game it's an alpha. 3.0 will be a slice of the larger game limited to a few moons. This is a pre 3.0 demo. I don't follow I'm sorry :)

3.0 is a slice of the game with planets, yes that's what it's supposed to be! He's saying that they have a flat map, not a planet, and the limit is put in place to avoid allowing people to reach the edges of the map.

In other words, 3.0 is so incomplete that they cannot demo it on the floor with controllers in the hands of people, so they created a map to represent it and then stopped you from reaching the areas that would reveal the deception.
 
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If you get far enough away from a large body of mass the effect of gravity will be reduced. If they have a real working simulation and not a cryengine map, then reaching a certain distance from a planet would result in a reduced rate of fall towards that planet.

I'm going to guess, however, that they don't let you get that far away (because again, it's probably just a cryengine map that demonstrates the "experience" of planet side "action" in star citizen. (coming soon!) (December) (maybe?)"

Ok I thought that was what you were driving at, but why? How does that change what I said?
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Does anyone know if the HOTAS setups they have are actually being used during this "demo", or is everyone on KB&M / Xbox controller?

The streamers were using X56s, and I believe there are other HOTAS around which you can use - apparently they work. (Although the flight model is basically FPS, so you'd be better with WASD+mouse).
 
3.0 is a slice of the game with planets, yes that's what it's supposed to be! He's saying that they have a flat map, not a planet, and the limit is put in place to avoid allowing people to reach the edges of the map.

In other words, 3.0 is so incomplete that they cannot demo it on the floor with controllers in the hands of people, so they created a map to represent it and then stopped you from reaching the areas that would reveal the deception.

If you find that better to believe than them saying they have done it to keep people in a gameplay area then sure, believe that :). What people are playing is the same thing they let press and pc gamer play a few weeks back because 3.0 is not ready, this is public knowledge :)
 
If you get far enough away from a large body of mass the effect of gravity will be reduced. If they have a real working simulation and not a cryengine map, then reaching a certain distance from a planet would result in a reduced rate of fall towards that planet.

Given that Chambers just said on the stream that they don't have orbital mechanics I'm gonna guess that "real working simulation" is very far from what they've currently got, which is very little.

Without that surely you'd have to just have a hard cut-off point between gravity and 0g (and that's fine, it's a videogame) so they could have had the commandos on this 3.0 demo flying up then getting out and floating around, rather than the goofy swimming fall they do right now.
 
Also what you are saying is pretty much how ED works. You can't de-orbit from a station and drop down to the local planet because the maps are disconnected.

Utterly false - you can do exactly this. The maps are not disconnected. Give me a minute I'll find you the Youtube clip - but you are sorely mistaken.

edit> example one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY7E0DEp5yI moon to planet tho

edit 2> spot on example, outpost to surface https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiAksP7W9SY

You are categorically wrong and need to reassess your argument.

ps. mods sorry for discussing ED briefly there, but just need to clear up that fact so we can progress, won't let it become a tangent.
 
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I was hoping that what Gamestar and PC Gamer got to play a couple of months ago would be what is shown at Gamescom. But that seems to be far from the case, no mobiglass, no AI, no missions, no hero NPCs, no gameplay loops, no cargo, no kiosks, no visiting the mining colony on an asteroid and so on.

I can only assume they are saving that for Chris' stream so he can present the best possible face of the project albeit one we still cannot play.
 
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The streamers were using X56s, and I believe there are other HOTAS around which you can use - apparently they work. (Although the flight model is basically FPS, so you'd be better with WASD+mouse).

Well, if nothing else, that is some progress at least. There might be a glimmer of hope for HOTAS in this lulzbucketry after all.
 

JohnMice

Banned
That is what made me get a refund 'the playerbase'.

I couldn't get to my ship's before someone had nicked them. [where is it]

But the pics you have there look good. I would easily return to SC, but only after its settled down and I can see what type of playerbase there is. Its pointless having a PU, if your shot every couple of minutes. Especially if you want to just potter around and explore.
Nice pics though. Have some rep...[yesnod]

Well that's kinda strange considering that you cant open other player's ships before they open themselves.

And my gang mostly go after other pvp minded groups and not exactly single players alone unless they are griefers. We actually let newbies go on board our ship and show them around and I think the community actually playing should not be mistaken by the minority who focuses mostly on the drama. But you will be glad to know that ship lock's are coming with 3.0.

What exactly is it that you think they've done? Deliver 3.0 with all its associated features, fully integrated into the PU?
What they've done is present a stripped-down, custom-built, isolated tech demo, which isn't available to backers to download, at a trade show, as a marketing tool. Again.
No one claimed that couldn't be done. We've literally seen them do it before.

What they have done is showcase a new build in a Games Convention game-floor and showcase new stuff to backers while letting random people play the game.

New stuff showcased that I noticed:

- Moon with atmosphere
- Flying in&out of atmosphere
- 2 Land Vechicles to drive
- 2 New Ship's to fly
- New armour & weapons
- Derelic Ships
- Outposts

Bonus for Nox Flyby:
giphy.gif

No wonder Chris needs you on his team, he clearly can't be Realistic and Pragmatic himself and therefore he needs people who can do that for him.

Would you be Realistic and Pragmatic if this was EA, Activision, Ubisoft or a competing game studio, or is that Realism and Pragmatism solely reserved for the one true studio?

Hey guys make up your mind, or I'm with CIG or I'm with the Goons. Here's for a bit of real life: I'm just a guy that likes video-games and shoot people. I do like CIG and Star Citizen idea of a all encompassing scifi universe game played in the first-person view but that doesn't make me a CIG employee. I do like how goons keep getting played at their own game but that doesn't make me one of them.

I'm just another guy that has been playing games ever since and is excited to see what you can do without tech and publishers compromises. That's about it.


If this was EA, Activision or Ubisoft it would never be approved in the first place because it's too risky, that's the whole point. One would say that by now some of the suits in those big studios saw the mass appeal that Star Citizen is generating and would come up with something with a huge scope and ambitious to tag along but not, they are too busy reashing half asset remakes or making dumb sequels again and again.

Still understand. I spent 5 years developing for a game. But its all rubbish anyway, the same principles apply.
Oh man, you just gave yourself away. Well played sir, well played. Care to share your something awful username with us?
Everyone else - chill, JohnMice isn't a SC fan at all. We've been had.

Mind sharing with us what exactly 5 years of work in game development produced so we can compare it with Star Citizen?

I mean I've been cooking my own meals for about 15 years but that doesn't qualify me to run a 5* Michelin Restaurant now does it? Contextualization is everything.

Yeah you got me, *I'm not actually Chris Roberts, I'm d'smart' Failed Developer after all.
Please make up your mind already has it's hard to change between knowing game development and not knowing game development.*/s

SC fans getting very excited about some images they have been shown. For example this.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH2X_l5WAAApwsg.jpg
Now, i must admit, it looks very nice, but, can that be a real in-game shot with no photoshop on top? Are CIG misleading people?

Regardless, pretty screenshots a game does not make. We've seen pretty a boatload.

All pictures are from monitors, those are not screenshot's but cellphone pictures of monitors, yes indeed some of them look better
imsCXP2.jpg
than bullshots from AAA studios but those are all from the live playable 3.0 build for Gamescon. That's the kind of quality all those millions get I guess.

As much poo as I give Star Citizen and as much as I think it deserves it...Don't be silly!
The largest part of any "sci fi" space MMO game is fantasy. Especially shields.
The much more interesting question is whether it makes for good game design.

Right on! Star Citizen or any other video-game can't be 100% constricted by "100% Real world Science" rules. It has to feel right in the gameplay perspective. Game area size (Planet/Moons/Asteroids/Cities) as to be adjusted accordingly to the gameplay experience and engagement that the Game Dev's want to give. Whille a massive galaxy and large planetoids makes all the sense in the sense in a Elite:Dangerous gameplay perspective it doesn't make sense in Star Citizen. The same way that small maps make sense in Counter Strike and don't make sense in Battlefield. It's not making large maps or play areas that it's hard, It's making them in a way that makes sense and fun to play.

CIG has a game booth where anyone can go and play a few minuts and have fun, ofc it's going to be limited.

Not sure on that, Arma3 does calculate the ballistic from the gun. IIRC so do all the others too. Included Operation Flashpoint, the first.

Yeah.. something doesn't had up considering the amount of made up stuff it's coming from there. Take it with a huge grain of salt that's my advice.

It does look a lot like if you removed the planet it would fly exactly the same, though that's probably unfair without actually experiencing it.

I like the "inner thought" idea, but it looks like it needs refinement. Seems fiddly to pick from the presented options. Also not convinced about presenting all the options for turning on ship subsystems but allowing you to skip them through a button press. Feels like bet hedging.

Once more, everything looks lovely but there's still no gameplay loop. People just flying /driving over a featureless moon.
It's Game Demonstration Booth for randoom people. It's not supposed to have a game-play loop. At least beside the "hop on vehicle, travel around trying not crash into stuff, admire the scenery or even kill someone, land and time's over" kinda of loop.

Indeed... Five years, 400 employees, 150 million dollars and this is all they're able to show for it? Pathetic!
I give them credit just in having the balls to turn up to the conference. Anyone else would be too humiliated to show...

Yeah that's Open Development right there. Just look at all the AAA's game's in heavy development that are at gamescom sharing their work with random gamers by having a playable build of their work...

We're watching them seamlessly go into space and back down, literally as I'm typing this. They've done it multiple times on stream already. There's no cutscene.

It's another "Star Marine doesn't exist" drama all over. CIG a company that should be extinct 2 years ago because they weren't "professional" enough keeps delivering what was deemed impossible by "gaming experts" again and again. We live in amazing times don't we.

What I really do like is how planet surface/lighting looks, I cant tell if this is really entire moon with this lvl of details and terrain variety but if so, our beige balls looks quite bad now. Also I haven't notice any jarring pop-ing and terrain loading for the most time too. And yes transition is seamless.
Semi clickable cockpits are a great addition too, looks wonky atm but idea is very welcome. I like their SRV, and it looks like it follows the terrain and not sliding.
EVA, Space Legs, moving from ship to SRV, to another ship - thats is cool. I want that I Elite badly now, I can wait for gameplay, just let me walk FD!
But the flight model that is almost the same for hover bike and giant ship - they seriously need to work on that, it looks terrible. And also lets be honest - game play wise it was bunch of guys messing around in fantastic looking Gmod map :D

That's what plenty of funding provides, great visuals and time to integrate the foundations to alow for that kind of emergent gameplay.

So they're not going into space they're just flying up really high.
Unless they demonstrate flying from the surface to one of their stations it's safe to assume they can't do it and all this is just a big map unconnected to the rest of the game.

Yeah - it (certainly gave the impression that it) looks like it's just a big map in isolation. They never just shoot off in one direction so it's not possible to see if there's a limit to the map area, or if it is a proper "moon" (although they wouldn't get very far before the server reset anyway) and they always eject when high up (for no reason).

They did that many times in the stream back and forth, they even went to the dark side of the moon and it was almost pitch black.

Maybe watch first comment later
should be issued.
 
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If you find that better to believe than them saying they have done it to keep people in a gameplay area then sure, believe that :). What people are playing is the same thing they let press and pc gamer play a few weeks back because 3.0 is not ready, this is public knowledge :)


3.0 is not ready? Since WHEN has this been "public" knowledge? I remember the die hards defending CiG just a few days ago claiming the whole of 3.0 will hit on Gamescom and blind us with its incredible gameplay. I think the "public" had no idea really and what a few people thing is not "public". Oh the skeptics were saying that 3.0 is either not ready or non-existant for a while now. Is that what you mean by "public" knowledge? I mean its the truth obviously but certainly not "public" knowledge. Stop changing history mate.
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
What they have done is showcase a new build in a Games Convention game-floor and showcase new stuff to backers while letting random people play the game.

New stuff showcased:
(snip)

- Flying in&out of atmosphere

I can't find a single clip anywhere, and I didn't see them do it while I was watching the stream for over 2 hours where they actually left the atmosphere. They just went up high, then ejected or flew back down again. At no point were they in Orbit and there's no visual indication of an "atmosphere" - there's no weather or other effects - it seems the same regardless of altitude above the surface beyond a bit of LOD.

Could you provide a link to a clip where they actually leave the atmosphere, or where there's a "reentry" style event (as per some of the screenshots which have been doing the rounds), because as far as I can tell that hasn't been shown, or is possible in the floor demo.
 
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