#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

[Barking_Mad]

I do love a good strike! *dons red t-shirt*

I can see both sides (of the striking issue), and although 'they weren't asked to make them', they did, and if they hadn't someone else would have done because they are more useful than the in-game tools. People have worked hard on these and it reflects poorly on FD that in this instance the communication has been, from the OP's comments, fairly mixed (at best).

That said striking should be a last resort and maybe a community poll asking for support would have been better as a first effort. Still, I'm not one of the developers of the sites, so it's hard for me to appreciate the frustration.

You have my support.

 

[Vystein]

Things like HCS Astra and other voice packs through VoiceAttack could be super streamlined... IF... Frontier was more supportive of 3rd party apps and devs... Just throwing that out there.

 

[Jukelo]

I can feel the horror at FD right now. 50% of their game just went down.

I think the horror must come from the fact they're realizing half their playerbase isn't playing the game as it was intended to be played.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm just going to say that the timing of this is obvious, and to be honest, very childish. It is, at best, wasting the time and effort of the playerbase in the event. FDev didnt have to do anything for 3rd party developers at all.

A fair point.

Pick a time when the dev's are busy sorting out update issues, and with a well-publicised event in the immediate future, and then make demands which they must know there is no likelihood of anybody being free to respond to in a timely manner.

Real classy. [sour]

 

[Ashnak]

The Big Issue with this approach is that If Fdev responds in a positive way to this, then this then becomes a valid tactic for dealing with them. If they don't the community loses a valuable resource.

I guess it's like not negotiating with hostage takers

No.

Nobody is taking anybody hostage. It's just the basic right of anybody to say "No" - and carry the consequences. Those 3rd party sites have been (and hopefully will be) providing invaluable service to the ED community. A lot of what they've been doing is also either publicly available or would probably be provided upon polite request. Nobody is preventing you from e.g. asking the makers of Inara for their setup, concept and database and create and run a similar site. Or copy the EDDB database and run it on your own site. Or set up your own, completely new site with ED related information.

So stop talking nonsense about hostages - do something constructive.

 

[Haltalopeck]

My full support for the movement.

 

[shadowwar]

I really do hope Frontier listens and pays due heed to what you spent time writing. For me I read all of it and many of the supporting comments too. You have my support for what it's worth. I am a Founder. I feel being a Founder to Frontier is meaningless. This is my own personal feeling. But I fervently believe what I write is correct.

Good luck to you all.

 

[MickyG1982]

Oh, well, guess I'll just play without the tools I never use anyways... #oldschoolpen&paper

 

[two quiet suns]

A fair point.

Pick a time when the dev's are busy sorting out update issues, and with a well-publicised event in the immediate future, and then make demands which they must know there is no likelihood of anybody being free to respond to in a timely manner.

Real classy. [sour]

Yes and its a bank holiday weekend here in the uk which means most people are off monday!

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Hi everyone. Just letting you know we've seen the thread. Please be patient while we bring this to the attention of the developers.

Just quickly want to mention that we always try to communicate as openly and effectively with our community as possible, and we appreciate all the hard work that goes in to the maintenance of these useful sites and tools.

I have also sent a PM to the OP, too

Thanks for your patience everyone!

Ed, with all due respect...

Please read the entirety of the post.

We're glad Frontier appreciate all the hard work that third party developers do.

However, there is a difference between 'communicating with the community' and 'communicating with the developer community'.

The player community needs those livestreams, competitions, events, etc. and you and the rest of Frontier do a sterling job with that.

The third party developer community, need a different kind of liaison. Something more technical. A good example of this is the communication we've had with H. Chalkley in the Player Journal thread. That is fantastic. Ideally, we as third party developers need the ear of someone technical, as well as a player community communication - that would go a very long way towards helping us to help Frontier AND the player community.

As can be seen by our letter and the suggestions - we are not demanding anything from Frontier - we are making suggestions, despite what one or two replies have stated on this thread.

We think our suggestions are sensible and would be advantageous to Frontier and the third-party developers alike.

Best regards,

Genar_Hofoen of the EDCD.

 

[GraXXoR]

I don't use 3rd party crowd-sourced tools as I consider most of them to go against the spirit of the game.

I'd rather have Frontier focus their efforts on adding the depth and complexity to the game that would justify the existence of 3rd party tools to begin with rather than give in to the wiki addicts who are more interested in farming than in discovery.

Then you perhaps have little idea what EDSM is used for and how many explorers use it:

9,000,000 unique systems charted and their 3D coordinates logged in what has now become one of the biggest third party databases of any game in the world, ever.
EDSM is the cornerstone of an entire raft of tools that are used by explorers and role-players throughout the galaxy. (And farmers, too.)

Right, I really am leaving now...

See you in May.

 

[Infidel Deity]

My God!
This is a disaster!
I basically use several of those sites, EVERY TIME I PLAY.

It was when I discovered that 3rd party tools existed, I felt that Elite Dangerous fell into place for me.

To you, the developers of 3rd party tools...

You have my full support!

To Frontier....
What they ask of you, is beyond extremely reasonable!

They enhance your game beyond measure; and you should treasure them accordingly. [yesnod]

Love you all!

 

[smilbuta]

Nope.. not supporting this...

Since when does doing a "labor of Love" require acknoledgement and acceptance by the group its done for...

Clamorous view of self worth by the 3rd party developers...

 

[Uvelius Sång]

I found the 3rd party tools absolutely essential for a nice gameplay as well. Not a chance to let me search through the ingame engineer hints, for example. Or, it would have been tiring to the extreme to blindly search for that class 6 Fuel Scoop or that class 3 beam laser turret by docking at many many stations.

This all would have been wasted time, which, thanks to 3rd party tools, I can dedicate to in-game Fuel Ratting -- and for the creation of game-related content, mostly, but not only, the Rattatoons.

So Frontier, I hope you will be able to estimate what you actually gained through the hard work of 3rd partiers -- a lot of work that you otherwise would better have done yourselves. Even if I fully credit the unparalleled work you have done by creating such a complex and immersive game.
Give them what they need to continue with their fantastic free jobs. And show them that you indeed credit their work and dedication. By *really* listening closely to their concerns, for a start.*)


*) I take it from the OPs post and later reactions that they feel this hasn't been done, even now.

 

[Kosmetas]

Issue:
In 2017 my, less than $200, 4 year old LG Flex can give me access to everything I can think of to query.

My, multi-million credit, ships can bend time and space in the year 3303, but can't query useful information collected by Commanders for years?


Solution:
Add the features in-game and remove the blackmail actions of third party developers.

 

[Csabo]

as a frequent user of your tools i'm with you ...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I don't see it as a ransom demand .... it's a cry for help. Timing may not be right, but it doesn't read as hostile, at least.

The way i see it is that the API works (barring bugs introduced via patches which FD fix), and its basically these guys have got together and said "We want more, FD aren't giving, let's have a wobbly over it"

Yeah, well, i want more. I want more exploration features, i want better in-game tools, i want some changes to how PvE piracy works, i want, I WANT, I WANT..... but FD are not going to give me what I want just because i stamp my feet over it.

As much as I love the guys who make these tools, they are acting like prima-donnas here.

They can damn well get in line with the rest of us who WANT things.

 

[Pville_Piper]

i can take or leave these tools, i use them yes but it doesnt stop me playing and people will provide these sites in the future to fill the void you just made. pretty low tactic if you ask me "hostage taking" of sorts. if i was braben ide tell you to do one

Except Braben has said to use the tools...

 

[marx]

I'm not going to defend what FDev have (and haven't) done, but I'd like to know one thing. Did you actually let Frontier know in private beforehand that you're going to do this, to give them a chance to respond before you went through with your strike? Or did you decide not to, to spring this on everyone as a surprise? The timing makes it obvious that the intent was to maximize the harm to your users. (Except the EDSM API.) What with this taking place during Drew Wagar's upcoming big event which he and his fans spent a lot of effort in promoting. So I would like to know if this is in retaliation to Frontier not replying after you threatened them with temporarily pulling your sites, or if it's solely because of the reasons you listed.

 

[Foraxis]

I use the third party tools all the time to get the best out of the game. I find that the third party tools help take the 'grind' out of the game and you can play it with purpose such as knowing where to find resources for Engineers, new parts for ships, planning new ship builds etc.

I am surprised that Frontier do not actively support the third party community as they are helping to promote the playing of their game and keeping players interested and no doubt encourage future sales of new content.

I would happily purchase further seasons of the game knowing that the third party developers are getting the support they need. Without the third part support and apps, I think I would probably lose interest in the game.

I hope that Frontier will recognise the importance of the third party tools and the hard work of the third party developers.