Thargoid invasion - Next target systems?

[MVBanks]

Right, I have seen it's 7, I don't know why I wrote 6.

 

[Phill P]

Well, for some people it can be difficult to understand,
but it wasn't just about ez mode. Definetely not for all people.

I know, but it was in direct response to all the claims from people who want easy AX. It doesn't mean I don't understand why the systems are fun for other things, like rescues. Perhaps you noticed the logo in my profile and sig? You might want to do that.

human CZs around at least installations when?

When the barnacle sites are fully grown and populated with thargoid controlled human captives?

 

[Phill P]

I don't see them getting removed at all, though we might be able to affect the Alerts they throw out. But who knows at this point?

Taking a step back from the whole thing, this is essentially fdev giving us something we can do nothing about and asking us to trust that at some point we will. What I am finding baffling is that people have just accepted that this is something we currently seem unable to do anything about. Anything else put into the game that we couldn't affect and people would be screaming from the rooftops demanding to know if it was intentional or a bug, it's strange and out of character for this playerbase.

 

[Phill P]

That aside, I find it curious there was a preference for outposts in AX around your… circles? Whatever to call it. I know about the Thargoids spinning around with the large starports, but other than Hydras going missing(never showing up) at the end of planetary CZs, I don’t quite recall ever seeing any huge gamebreakers myself.

In the early days Ground Port CZs did not complete properly and we also had collision issues, goids sinking into the ground etc.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Anything else put into the game that we couldn't affect and people would be screaming from the rooftops demanding to know if it was intentional or a bug

The Titans have been there for most of a year with no way to affect them, most of the Thargoid commodities and materials don't do anything much, so "this Thargoid is just there to look interesting for now" is pretty common.

On the strategic side, recapturing uninhabited controls is a pretty niche interest; for now most of the matrix sites are deep enough in that they wouldn't be obvious recapture targets anyway if they weren't also matrix sites; the few people who are interested have as far as I can tell already asked "intentional or bug" to the usual no response, so unless it gets fixed on Tuesday it might as well be intentional.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in 55 Tauri, HIPs 112219, 23716 and 9709, Trianguli Sector CA-A c14 and Col 285 Sectors SW-D b12-2 and SS-H b11-5! Wakata Station is safe again, and the less-glamorous part of Operation Redacted gets HIP 9709, the first of two to guard HIP 9016. Kurumanit slowed a bit but is still moving, and HIP 30502 is storming forward!

Alerts at 08:20 26th August 3309:
HIP 20019 Alert 78% — Indra 26 Ly, 786 Ls starport, 1060 Ls outpost, 781 Ls planet
Luggerates Alert 38% — Oya 22 Ly, 339 Ls outpost, 339 Ls planet
Holvandalla Alert 32% *32.7% — Raijin 21 Ly, 86 Ls starport, 19 Ls outpost
HIP 20492 Alert 28% *29.3% — Indra 24 Ly, 3308 Ls starport, 3168 Ls outpost
Muruidooges Alert 20% *21.3% — Hadad 18 Ly, 1018 Ls starport, 7225 Ls outpost

Evictions:
HIP 30502 Control 26% — Hadad 14 Ly, 15.7k strength
Kurumanit Control 24% — Cocijo 20 Ly, 3406 strength

Clean-up:
77 Theta-1 Tauri Control 78% *78.6% — Indra 21 Ly, empty, 215 strength
Col 285 Sector ZE-P c6-10 Alert 38% — Cocijo 20 Ly, empty
Col 285 Sector ZE-P c6-15 Alert 36% *37.9% — Cocijo 18 Ly, empty

Anything else put into the game that we couldn't affect and people would be screaming from the rooftops demanding to know if it was intentional or a bug

It falls a little short of screaming from rooftops, but otherwise I did cover the accidental-versus-intentional matter in Inform Commanders promptly of any Thargoid War systems which cannot be recaptured, quite soon after update 16!


To follow up a bit with @Felix DiCestria, I took another look yesterday; nothing glowed, although nor did I get any Revenants without a Commander on the ground. I noticed that those seven barnacle matrix structures have a Thargoidy symbol on them:

It looks like the inner part of the Xeno scanner symbol, or the only part in the case of targeting a Scout, and even has the same orientation:

One wonders a bit whether that appears elsewhere structurally, not simply on the holographic display.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

The symbol is pretty much all the Thargoid stuff with multiple variations.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in 77 Theta-1 and 58 Tauri, HIPs 20146, 6570, 6572, 20019, 39750 and 3006, Arietis Sector MX-U c2-17, Col 285 Sectors EA-Q c5-8, ZE-P c6-10, ZE-P c6-16, AF-P c6-2, US-H b11-1, US-H b11-6, ZE-P c6-15 and OC-V d2-96, and Hyades Sectors KX-U d2-94, NT-I b9-0 and NT-I b9-1! Recently it is most impressive how quickly our system count approaches the number of systems attacked.

On the Alert front, mind that the upcoming Njorog will be more difficult to move, although by an unknown factor which could be difficult to measure and may favour relative ease compared to the Control gradients. After Ebisu there should be four other inhabited Alerts of lower strength than Njorog.

Yesterday was a bit hamstrung by more Fleet Carrier queues reaching an hour; in response I positioned in advance to help HIP 30502 and planned for other clean-up to be infeasible. Carrier jumps appear to be normal at the moment, at least!

Alerts at 08:30 27th August 3309:
HIP 20492 Alert 60% *60.6% — Indra 24 Ly, 3308 Ls starport, 3168 Ls outpost, 5791 Ls planet
Luggerates Alert 52% *53.2% — Oya 22 Ly, 339 Ls outpost, 339 Ls planet
Holvandalla Alert 42% *42.6% — Raijin 21 Ly, 86 Ls starport, 19 Ls outpost
Muruidooges Alert 32% *33.7% — Hadad 18 Ly, 1018 Ls starport, 7225 Ls outpost
Njorog Alert 20% *21.8% — Taranis 15 Ly, 637 Ls starport, 60 Ls outpost
Narrowly:
Ebisu Alert 16% — Taranis 21 Ly, 358 Ls starport, 63 Ls outpost

Evictions:
Patollu Control 50% — Leigong 22 Ly, 1815 strength
HIP 30502 Control 36% — Hadad 14 Ly, 13.5k strength
Kurumanit Control 28% — Cocijo 20 Ly, 3230 strength

Clean-up:
Trianguli Sector CA-A c15 Control 84% — Taranis 16 Ly, empty, 432 strength
Pegasi Sector JH-U b3-9 Control 60% — Raijin 20 Ly, empty, 474 strength
Cephei Sector AV-Y b6 Alert 50% — Oya 21 Ly, empty

 

[Starsong]

I’m not sure the Alert gradient is any better than Controls - the same group that cleared 23716 in two days switched to Njorog as soon as they’d finished it, and they only did it at about a third of the rate yesterday.

 

[Phill P]

The Titans have been there for most of a year with no way to affect them, most of the Thargoid commodities and materials don't do anything much, so "this Thargoid is just there to look interesting for now" is pretty common.

You really think that's a fair comparison? The Titans, put in there as an obvious "final objective" are the same as a system ly out from them that stops progress towards that objective?

They are not remotely the same thing to me.

 

[Phill P]

I’m not sure the Alert gradient is any better than Controls - the same group that cleared 23716 in two days switched to Njorog as soon as they’d finished it, and they only did it at about a third of the rate yesterday.

You're right, the gradient is pretty much the same in the way it ramps up with distance. The amounts are not as high (estimated 5500 samples for Njorog if in Alert, 18k if a Control) until they converge at 5ly but the ramp appears near as dammit identical so far. From 20 to 15 and 15 to 10 is definitely comparable.

Last night was slower than expected. Njorog is around twice the work of HIP 23716, plus carrier times were a bit borked last night as Aleks says (although it let me jump mine ok, I was at Trianguli Sector CA-A c15, others at the Alerts complained about delays again).

Since then Njorog has jumped to 48% so it's picked up a lot more today. We're getting a feel for how hard it would be to clear which we will compare to how it is to clear if it becomes an Invasion at some time in the future.

 

[Kira Goto]

I’m not sure the Alert gradient is any better than Controls - the same group that cleared 23716 in two days switched to Njorog as soon as they’d finished it, and they only did it at about a third of the rate yesterday.

On that note, I was thinking of mentioning the required effort to clear it from its alert state when it looks much like a viable invasion defense scenario(even at that range) with a number of large ports(two of which are surface-based) doesn’t seem entirely worth it when a number of weaker [populated] alerts could be cleared in that same time.

I’m not one to say where people should put their cards though, and I’m sure there are counterpoints to the above idea. But, let’s say, I’d see more reason in preventing outpost-only systems like Montioch and HIP 30502 around Hadad(once/if they are recaptured) from reaching invasion state. Should that be feasible.

(And at this point, it’s probably worth clearing Njorog in its current state due to the existing effort put into it. It probably will, too.)

 

[Phill P]

On that note, I was thinking of mentioning the required effort to clear it from its alert state when it looks much like a viable invasion defense scenario(even at that range) with a number of large ports(two of which are surface-based) doesn’t seem entirely worth it when a number of weaker [populated] alerts could be cleared in that same time.

I’m not one to say where people should put their cards though, and I’m sure there are counterpoints to the above idea. But, let’s say, I’d see more reason in preventing outpost-only systems like Montioch and HIP 30502 around Hadad(once/if they are recaptured) from reaching invasion state. Should that be feasible

(And at this point, it’s probably worth clearing Njorog in its current state due to the existing effort put into it. It probably will, too.)

We want to get a feel for what it takes to clear it at the Alert stage. This will be useful information. Once we get more Alerts/Invasions inside 15ly as we push inwards it's going to get a lot harder so it's good to get a "feel" for how hard a system will be to clear outside what bare numbers tell us.

 

[Kira Goto]

We want to get a feel for what it takes to clear it at the Alert stage. This will be useful information. Once we get more Alerts/Invasions inside 15ly as we push inwards it's going to get a lot harder so it's good to get a "feel" for how hard a system will be to clear outside what bare numbers tell us.

Oh, for sure, and I’m not saying the current attempt should be discarded, not by any means. More in regards to the future, but I guess you’ve already got that outlook in mind.

I’m also just as curious what the end results will be, for the required effort to clear at the alert stage. It’s already apparent that it would (most likely, to avoid saying completely) be impossible to clear them all at that range if/when multiples begin to pop up, so being able to pick and know requirements more precisely is much more useful.

 

[Phill P]

Oh, for sure, and I’m not saying the current attempt should be discarded, not by any means. More in regards to the future, but I guess you’ve already got that outlook in mind.

That's pretty much our view yes. What we learn now informs both our current and future actions.

I’m also just as curious what the end results will be, for the required effort to clear at the alert stage. It’s already apparent that it would (most likely, to avoid saying completely) be impossible to clear them all at that range if/when multiples begin to pop up, so being able to pick and know requirements more precisely is much more useful.

Several systems within 15ly would be impossible to clear in a week at the current rate that we and others can do it. You're basically doubling the work inside 15ly then doubling again inside 10.

 

[Spaceman-FXL5]

Well all this is TLDR - I have not been involved in war effort since about week 31 when no more Invasions happened. - I will join once again when they do happen as I am basic AX CZ with scouts in Planetary ports or Outposts or NHSS4 or 5. so until then - I am off mining or exploring - yawn.

I would imagine more Cmdrs would join in with Invasions to evict, but Sampling............NAH, even if it is quicker/better than CZ's combat - enjoy it while you can samplers, carry on carrying on.

 

[Phill P]

Well all this is TLDR - I have not been involved in war effort since about week 31 when no more Invasions happened. - I will join once again when they do happen as I am basic AX CZ with scouts in Planetary ports or Outposts or NHSS4 or 5. so until then - I am off mining or exploring - yawn.

I would imagine more Cmdrs would join in with Invasions to evict, but Sampling............NAH, even if it is quicker/better than CZ's combat - enjoy it while you can samplers, carry on carrying on.

I can assure you we are not sampling because we enjoy it, strictly a means to an end.

At least I don't recall anyone in the squad saying oh yes, this really satisfies my masochistic tendencies, more please

And we still do rescues and deliveries.

But yeah, sampling is a drag for sure. Time to dig out that series you've been meaning to binge watch.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

You really think that's a fair comparison? The Titans, put in there as an obvious "final objective" are the same as a system ly out from them that stops progress towards that objective?

I would be very surprised if "take out all of a Titan's control systems first" was a requirement to deal with them, in which case it's not stopping progress towards that objective. If "take out all its Matrix systems first" is a requirement, then they are part of that final objective (and equally unimplemented yet) and exactly the same.

If the objective is "clear everything but the Titan", then (possibly except at Leigong) the inverse-cube difficulty curve makes that practically impossible anyway, regardless of the presence of Matrix systems. There are 150 controls, about a third of them inhabited, within the 15LY shell, and except for Leigong's unusual situation, generally very strongly cross-linked especially below 10 LY. Another 30-ish Matrix systems outside the 15LY line isn't going to be materially important to that before whatever U17, U18, etc. bring, in the same way that the Titans not yet being attackable isn't.



The thing I find most strange about the Barnacle Matrix sites is this:
- we know they're there, they got found on the first day of U16, it's not like they're a big secret
- it's been four weeks and there's been zero mention of them in Galnet at all

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in Trianguli Sector CA-A c15, Cephei Sectors AV-Y b6, AV-Y b0 and AF-A c21, HIP 21008, Col 285 Sectors KM-V d2-51, XI-H b11-2, XI-H b11-5, ZE-P c6-7, NG-E b12-3 and NG-E b12-4, Arietis Sector ZP-P b5-1 and Patollu! Recapturing the latter has also taken one attack away from M. Leigong.

With Alert activity including the twice-as-difficult Njorog the amount thus far just about extends for another five systems. Meanwhile, we did boost HIP 30502 from around 36% to 50%, however for the moment we will let it go unless its earlier ~14% per day activity resumes.

Alerts at 09:30 28th August 3309:
HIP 20492 Alert 96% *96.8% — Indra 24 Ly, 3308 Ls starport, 3168 Ls outpost, 5791 Ls planet
Luggerates Alert 64% *64.6% — Oya 22 Ly, 339 Ls outpost, 1473 Ls planet
Holvandalla Alert 60% — Raijin 21 Ly, 86 Ls starport, 19 Ls outpost, 43 Ls planet
Njorog Alert 52% *52.7% — Taranis 15 Ly, 637 Ls starport, 60 Ls outpost, 107 Ls planet
Narrowly:
Muruidooges Alert 44% *44.4% — Hadad 18 Ly, 1018 Ls starport, 7225 Ls outpost
Trailing:
Ebisu Alert 18% — Taranis 21 Ly, 358 Ls starport, 63 Ls outpost

Evictions:
HIP 30502 Control 50% *51.6% — Hadad 14 Ly, 10.2k strength
Kurumanit Control 30% — Cocijo 20 Ly, 3140 strength

Clean-up:
Col 285 Sector SH-B b14-5 Alert 98% *98.5% — Hadad 20 Ly, empty
Pegasi Sector JH-U b3-9 Control 62% *63.5% — Raijin 20 Ly, empty, 432 strength
Col 285 Sector SM-C b13-0 Alert 38% — Thor 22 Ly, empty
HIP 112595 Alert 24% *24.7% — Raijin 24 Ly, empty


Regarding harvesting, indeed one does it only because it works well; it highlights the difference between seeking to fight to win a system and seeking simply to win a system, although please consider me emphatically thankful to all either way! Of course, the latter notion leads quite quickly to that second question of a wider victory, where the idea of Operation Redacted is to discover what happens if we were to reach a Maelstrom as far as system ownership is concerned.

The thing I find most strange about the Barnacle Matrix sites is this:

• we know they're there, they got found on the first day of U16, it's not like they're a big secret
• it's been four weeks and there's been zero mention of them in Galnet at all

That is a very good point regarding Galnet; checking it recently and ignoring anything without a Pilots Federation Alert, I think the Ancient Alien Battleground Discovered article is the only relevant one. For anyone who has visited it, was there anything which may have been relevant?

Definitely discovering something to be done differently would make the difference between having a path forward versus holding a more easily-defended perimeter for now.

 

[Shurimal]

For anyone who has visited it, was there anything which may have been relevant?

While I didn't turn every single planet there upside down and inside out, I had a good look around. Nothing really popped out to me, other than the guardian ruins being situated on an icy body instead of a rocky one.

The thargoid signal sources were transient and went away after a few days, which is a bit odd I guess. I found suspicious NPC cargo ships with "scary" names and belonging to some "cartel" faction in these signal sources, but the ones I managed to scan were holding no cargo.

Other than that, nothing noteworthy. Then again, I'm not one to eagerly go searching for a black cat in a dark room when it's far from certain that there is a cat in the room