Thargoid invasion - Next target systems?

So far, no - but then so far the Thargoids haven't been attempting to retake that many systems inside 15 LY total, so it's hard to say what would happen if they were in a situation where they needed to try: looking at how much effort you and IDA have put in defending Njorog, it seems obvious that the human advance must stop well before every contested system gets to that difficulty.
Yes it does. You can definitely think of the 15ly line as the one we can defend up to, but will have trouble when we go over that line.

In that sense you can even look at everything we have done so far as training for the larger job to come.

But yes, I can say with all confidence that Njorog was a complete pain in the rear. If you were going to clear it at the Alert stage with only sampling, it would take 6800.
Not to say, of course, that targeted recaptures within the 15 LY shell can't be worthwhile so long as there is a plan to either maintain that ground or make use of the temporary respite it provides further out.
Which is why I would have preferred, with that job ahead of us, not to leave work behind us to do as well to split and distract that effort. But what's done is done.
 
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But in order to get just the scouts you want you have to kill all the others. Combat again.
Right… fair. I guess I was thinking about it with an interceptor(Cyclops) more, where you can kind of lure it around without having to worry about scouts as much.

Thing about my current quandary(and I’ve definitely not stopped the internal debate yet… it’s been going on and off since roughly the beginning of… January, maybe?), is that I initially did actively fight against the Thargoids, though with doubts as to whether I ever wanted to go into the systems they took over in the Bubble. Some part of it still just felt wrong on some level. Guess maybe because of the whole way this invasion came to be in the first place. By the end of January I was really over it and just swapped over to evacs entirely.

I still reserve the possibility to fight if there is no other option left, but I’m hoping it won’t come to that. Or that an exodus to Colonia is not in order. (Imagine the fleet carrier timers. Horrible.)

Abyway, while I’m here to ask, if bringing supplies back to a system, is it preferable to take the ‘smaller’ non-wing delivery missions or go back and forth for a wing delivery even if it is not shared? (I tend to do the evac business in solo play to avoid pad congestion.) Mostly useful to know for my Cutter since I can’t seem to find a Python configuration where I’m happy with the balance between cargo and passengers.
 
Right… fair. I guess I was thinking about it with an interceptor(Cyclops) more, where you can kind of lure it around without having to worry about scouts as much.

Thing about my current quandary(and I’ve definitely not stopped the internal debate yet… it’s been going on and off since roughly the beginning of… January, maybe?), is that I initially did actively fight against the Thargoids, though with doubts as to whether I ever wanted to go into the systems they took over in the Bubble. Some part of it still just felt wrong on some level. Guess maybe because of the whole way this invasion came to be in the first place. By the end of January I was really over it and just swapped over to evacs entirely.

I still reserve the possibility to fight if there is no other option left, but I’m hoping it won’t come to that. Or that an exodus to Colonia is not in order. (Imagine the fleet carrier timers. Horrible.)

Abyway, while I’m here to ask, if bringing supplies back to a system, is it preferable to take the ‘smaller’ non-wing delivery missions or go back and forth for a wing delivery even if it is not shared? (I tend to do the evac business in solo play to avoid pad congestion.) Mostly useful to know for my Cutter since I can’t seem to find a Python configuration where I’m happy with the balance between cargo and passengers.
There's no right answer here. Wing mission bonuses count for a lot even if done solo, but so do lots of small mission bonuses, so we recommend a mix.
 
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There's no right answer here. Wing mission bonuses count for a lot even if done solo, but so do lots of small mission bonuses, so we recommend a mix.
Well, thanks for the info (and answers to my other questions), anyway. Looks like 65 KT is also on the edge of clearing after someone’s sample delivery, so that’s my work for this week of Thargoid shenanigans done.

(The only thing I find annoying about that is that I took a bulk delivery mission that I had planned to finish… well, later today, seeing how it’s past midnight. Instead, my inner completionist demanded that I do it now than to either abandon it or not bother until the system is already clear… and then probably abandon the mission anyway.)
 
Well, thanks for the info (and answers to my other questions), anyway. Looks like 65 KT is also on the edge of clearing after someone’s sample delivery, so that’s my work for this week of Thargoid shenanigans done.

(The only thing I find annoying about that is that I took a bulk delivery mission that I had planned to finish… well, later today, seeing how it’s past midnight. Instead, my inner completionist demanded that I do it now than to either abandon it or not bother until the system is already clear… and then probably abandon the mission anyway.)
Last week I collected 312 samples for an unpop alert and was just about to hand them in when someone cleared the system from 0, so they must have been doing the same thing. Sold them anyway, but yeah, could have done without that :)
 
Victories in HIP 112595, Njorog, Arietis Sector JR-V b2-3, 65 Kappa Tauri, Luggerates, Col 285 Sectors KW-M c7-12 and VS-Z b14-0, and Pegasi Sector LC-U b3-2! That M. Indra clean-up leaves 69 Upsilon Tauri guarded, and the same at M. Raijin has guarded Isla. Well done once again to PDES et alia for repelling all empty Alerts!

Alerts at 07:50 30th August 3309, Wednesday caution:
Holvandalla Alert 86% *86.5%Raijin 21 Ly, 86 Ls starport, 19 Ls outpost, 43 Ls planet
Muruidooges Alert 76% *76.4%Hadad 18 Ly, 1018 Ls starport, 7225 Ls outpost, 7320 Ls planet
Rising quickly but trailing a bit:

Ebisu Alert 64% *65.5%Taranis 21 Ly, 358 Ls starport, 63 Ls outpost, 105 Ls planet
Trailing a lot:

HIP 116360 Alert 38% *38.3%Raijin 21 Ly, 649 Ls outpost

Evictions:
HIP 30502 Control 52% — Hadad 14 Ly, 10.2k strength
Kurumanit Control 34% *35.9%Cocijo 20 Ly, 2872 strength
Col 285 Sector WY-F b12-1 Control 34% *34.4%Cocijo 21 Ly, 2691 strength

Clean-up:
Arietis Sector LM-V b2-4 Control 26% *27%Indra 27 Ly, empty, 303 strength
 
Well, thanks for the info (and answers to my other questions), anyway. Looks like 65 KT is also on the edge of clearing after someone’s sample delivery, so that’s my work for this week of Thargoid shenanigans done.

(The only thing I find annoying about that is that I took a bulk delivery mission that I had planned to finish… well, later today, seeing how it’s past midnight. Instead, my inner completionist demanded that I do it now than to either abandon it or not bother until the system is already clear… and then probably abandon the mission anyway.)
Sorry about that one, as you noted in the monday post, was on the later lists for blocking it AXI-ward - Exclusively recapturing to give a 'Good news, you can never be attacked again!' while the system caught fire in the background seemed a bit silly, after all.

460 samples delivered just before the downtime turned out to be at max ~25,26% (going from 14% by DCoH measure to around 40% after delivery), so made a few more runs, added another 891 to finish up from the 56% when i was gathering. 120 samples were delivered after the hour, so it didn't show complete all at once.

In the end 20712 will be a bit delayed, but should be a couple of weeks before 65 is threatened again, there's time.
 
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Which is why I would have preferred, with that job ahead of us, not to leave work behind us to do as well to split and distract that effort. But what's done is done.
The question will probably be whether it's possible to consistently confine Titans to less than 5 Alerts a week as the 15 LY line gets more generally approached. Some of them more easily than others, certainly. If it's not possible, then Njorog + a bunch of 17.5-25 LY Alerts is going to be a lot more practical than Njorog + a bunch of 15-20 LY Alerts.

Counter to that of course is that prevention at the Alert stage has the shortest recycle time. "Letting" some systems go to Invasion/Control and then recapturing them doubles or potentially even triples the recycle time, which makes it easier in theory to maintain a perimeter where the average Alerts/week is less than five. I say "letting" as if it'll be a deliberate strategy; as the distance reduces it's not going to be practical to do otherwise anyway.
 
Sorry about that one, as you noted in the monday post, was on the later lists for blocking it AXI-ward - Exclusively recapturing to give a 'Good news, you can never be attacked again!' while the system caught fire in the background seemed a bit silly, after all.

460 samples delivered just before the downtime turned out to be at max ~25,26% (going from 14% by DCoH measure to around 40% after delivery), so made a few more runs, added another 891 to finish up from the 56% when i was gathering. 120 samples were delivered after the hour, so it didn't show complete all at once.

In the end 20712 will be a bit delayed, but should be a couple of weeks before 65 is threatened again, there's time.
Oh, nothing to be sorry about here. Better to be safe than sorry about that one, I just wasn’t quite expecting the progress jump to occur at that time.

Otherwise, it was just a minor inconvenience to make the trip one extra time, given that I don’t have to be up early for anything at this time.
 
The question will probably be whether it's possible to consistently confine Titans to less than 5 Alerts a week as the 15 LY line gets more generally approached. Some of them more easily than others, certainly. If it's not possible, then Njorog + a bunch of 17.5-25 LY Alerts is going to be a lot more practical than Njorog + a bunch of 15-20 LY Alerts.
Yes, how many Alerts each Titan produces will be interesting to note if we think of 15ly as our "reasonable containment line" and can consistently achieve that, which we believe we can. Reducing Alerts seems to fluctuate, 25 a few weeks ago, now back up to nearly 40 again, so that clearly needs more work before any further tactics based on it can be formulated.
Counter to that of course is that prevention at the Alert stage has the shortest recycle time. "Letting" some systems go to Invasion/Control and then recapturing them doubles or potentially even triples the recycle time, which makes it easier in theory to maintain a perimeter where the average Alerts/week is less than five. I say "letting" as if it'll be a deliberate strategy; as the distance reduces it's not going to be practical to do otherwise anyway.
No it won't be practical at all or even possible inside 15ly but that doesn't matter because it won't work anyway, any more than the last time it was suggested and for the same reason. The difference between theory and practice. It assumes that there is the slightest chance that people will leave an Invasion for a week or more before clearing it. They won't. They will jump on them as soon as they appear and give you an extra week or two at most compared to an Alert. You'll never get people to leave it till the optimum time to make use of it as a strategy i.e. any given Invasion's penultimate week. Your theoretical "buffer time" won't even get doubled let alone tripled.

Plus the other assumptions in play about Invasions as if clearing them was no different to anywhere else when the differences are significant. I've been through them before but that seems to have fallen on deaf ears so I'll just reiterate that Alerts and Controls stay at the same level of difficulty until they are cleared but Invasions do not, the more damaged they get the fewer activities there are to do making them harder to clear the longer they last. No other system state has the activities to clear it reduced over time, or is any more difficult to clear at the end of its cycle than it was at the beginning. It only happens in Invasions.

A quick reminder of this fundamental and crucial point;

  • Sampling is notably less effective than in Alerts and Controls.
  • Attacked station = loss of commodity market.
  • Damaged station = loss of delivery missions. Rescues only.
  • Last week of Invasion = all AX CZs disappear, including the nice easy ones on planets; only one damaged station remains with rescue missions that keep running out.
  • Alongside the Invasions there are still all the Alerts to clear as well as whatever Controls people can do.

So, as there is no way you will ever organise people to leave Invasions until their penultimate week to create your best "buffer time", and deliveries will likely be gone as an activity even if you do, the only way it realistically functions as a buffer at all is if the Invasion itself takes more than a week to clear because of its distance, and to do that it will have to be inside 15ly or be a really really slow week so it's a moot point. Regardless, it still has the diminishing returns and potential to distract work from elsewhere, as listed above.

There are likely to be some Invasions tomorrow due to Njorog taking almost half of our weekly time and the downtime yesterday. HIP 25679 looks favourite at the moment. It won't take more than a week to clear and nor will anyone wait to do so.

Nor is letting them go to Control acceptable as this will be even more work to get them back, while giving the Thargoids more Control Systems for free when we have done so much to deny them any new ones. It's going backwards again. It's bad enough that it will be the fate of Njorog if people don't keep redefending it, or even if they don't and eventually have to take it back (which will be 3 times the work of clearing it at the Alert stage) it will simply be Alerted again, for how long who knows. So no, we don't plan to concede any Controls that are still unblocked unless they would take less work than their corresponding Alert.
 
No it won't be practical at all or even possible inside 15ly but that doesn't matter because it won't work anyway, any more than the last time it was suggested and for the same reason. The difference between theory and practice. It assumes that there is the slightest chance that people will leave an Invasion for a week or more before clearing it. They won't. They will jump on them as soon as they appear and give you an extra week or two at most compared to an Alert. You'll never get people to leave it till the optimum time to make use of it as a strategy i.e. any given Invasion's penultimate week. Your theoretical "buffer time" won't even get doubled let alone tripled.

Plus the other assumptions in play about Invasions as if clearing them was no different to anywhere else when the differences are significant. I've been through them before but that seems to have fallen on deaf ears so I'll just reiterate that Alerts and Controls stay at the same level of difficulty until they are cleared but Invasions do not, the more damaged they get the fewer activities there are to do making them harder to clear the longer they last. No other system state has the activities to clear it reduced over time, or is any more difficult to clear at the end of its cycle than it was at the beginning. It only happens in Invasions.
A counter-argument for allowing (some) Invasions is that Invasions up to the penultimate week contain viable combat activities, which is something that quite a few pilots are exclusively interested in. Therefore, having some Invasions as well as defending Alerts means we have a higher total defence capacity.
 
You'll never get people to leave it till the optimum time to make use of it as a strategy
That's exactly why I put "letting" in quotes. I'm not saying that people should do anything different [1], just setting out the likely longer-term consequences of people doing what they're doing as the distances go down and the per-system difficulties go up. It's not as if there's been any deliberate strategy to let an Alert or two go to Invasion this week, after all.

Once enough close-in Alerts show up at once, they won't all be cleared at once, and then at some point so many will be going to Invasion at once that clearing all of them in their first week will become impossible no matter how hard people try, so some will inevitably go to two weeks. That won't be a "strategy", it'll just be running out of bullets. That gives them the long four-week recovery time rather than the short one-week, which is enough to double the time until they get reattacked, which then serves as a partial mitigation of the fact that there's too many of them to start with. If people continue to push beyond that point then eventually - as you say, invasions get tougher as they go on - systems will be lost not through any intent but simply through no-one having time to save them, and recapturing them will effectively be triple cooldown (though more likely at that point, not done at all).

If it was a strategy it might be possible to pick the timings of that sort of thing to consistently reduce Maelstrom alert counts ... more likely it'll lead to boom/bust cycles where a Maelstrom - at least, the sparser ones - gets a temporary shell of long-Recovery systems it can't easily get past, so is restricted to uninhabited systems (or no Alerts at all) for a few weeks until that goes past ... and then it'll stick 5 high-difficulty inhabited Alerts down at once the next week and the cycle begins again with it being impossible to stop at least some of those going to multi-week Invasions no matter how much people try.

(As always, whether we actually get to that point before Update 17 or 18 changes things up, who knows)

Reducing Alerts seems to fluctuate, 25 a few weeks ago, now back up to nearly 40 again, so that clearly needs more work before any further tactics based on it can be formulated.
That's again mainly a consequence of variable cooldown times.

Knocking out a Maelstrom's entire outer perimeter - especially at the 20-30 LY ranges - in a couple of weeks appears to be feasible. That then puts all its 15-20 LY Controls facing a bunch of systems which are mostly on a four-week cooldown and no way to reach past, so Alerts temporarily and locally fall. Once those cooldowns are over, though, it's then got 15 targets (3-week cycle) perfectly readily and gets back up to speed. The tactic can't be repeated very often in general, because doing it again requires knocking out the 15-20 LY shell with similar speed.

Leigong and Thor are partial exceptions as their low density makes it hard for them to reliably get a 15-system perimeter in normal circumstances, and a few targeted control recaptures can push that down ... Indra, conversely, is going to get 5 Alerts a week pretty much whatever happens.



[1] I'm 22,000 LY away and have no relevant squadron affiliations. I'd have no ability to say that even if I wanted to.
 
Victories in Hyades Sectors LY-I b9-4, LY-I b9-5 and OT-I b9-1, Col 285 Sectors AF-P c6-0, AF-P c6-1, AF-P c6-17 and YY-F b12-0, Muruidooges, Holvandalla, Ebisu, HIPs 116360 and 20712, Vistnero and Pegasi Sector JC-U b3-6! That puts us at eighty-one systems just before the end of the cycle.

On the point of Invasions and their best moment to defend, I see that as different for each system, not necessarily awaiting the last moment. In much the same way as the Thargoid presence is especially vulnerable to Research limpets, it is also vulnerable when it attacks a planetary port, and that can be put to use. Realistically:
  • Obviously any time the only planetary port in a system is attacked, even as the first attack, I think eagerness aligns with longer-term efficiency.
  • If something non-planetary is attacked first, or if there are two planetary ports, it would be nice to leave it for the later planetary attack but quite fine if eagerness wins.
  • Systems with only one non-planetary port probably should be defended immediately and prioritised for guarding; a second Invasion week there becomes almost the same as a Control system, with only the critical evacuations as an extra option.
  • Only really for systems without planetary ports (but more than one port in total) does it highlight the value of leaving it for a week to add three weeks to its total periodicity, assuming some efficiency improvements are welcome of course!

Knocking out a Maelstrom's entire outer perimeter - especially at the 20-30 LY ranges - in a couple of weeks appears to be feasible. That then puts all its 15-20 LY Controls facing a bunch of systems which are mostly on a four-week cooldown and no way to reach past, so Alerts temporarily and locally fall.

Indeed while attacking the Maelstroms on the loosely-Imperial side, and especially when we all struck M. Taranis together, it occurred to me two large-enough groups of Commanders who are all unrealistically eager to clear Control systems could follow a Maelstrom rota on each side. With the Narwhal targets on a sticky note, one group repeats Taranis–Cocijo–Hadad–Thor and the other Indra–Leigong–Raijin–Oya, probably resulting in fewer than ten Alerts while there still exists hostile space to be cleared.
 

Week 40, 31st August 3309​

Report
Thirty-eight Alerts repelled at Trianguli Sectors FL-Y b5, KR-W b1-4 and EQ-Y b3, Col 285 Sectors PM-B b14-3, KW-M c7-31, RM-B b14-8, SS-H b11-0, SH-B b14-2, IA-G b11-3, JG-O c6-5, SS-H b11-3, YT-F b12-6, UH-C b13-0, UH-C b13-2 and KM-V d2-69, Hyades Sectors GW-W d1-88, NT-I b9-2 and FB-N b7-3, Arietis Sectors KM-W d1-93, NH-V b2-0 and LM-V b2-3, HIPs 19600, 38718, 20527, 11111, 29596, 20890 and 19157, Cephei Sectors ZE-A c8 and AF-A c22, Pegasi Sectors DG-X c1-6, NY-O a7-1 and UK-L a9-0, Nu Guang, Ixbaksha, Jeng, Pathamon and Jementi.
One Invasion defended at HIP 25679.
Thirty-four Control evictions at Col 285 Sectors CA-P c6-16, TS-H b11-0, TS-H b11-1, TS-H b11-3, US-H b11-2, ZE-P c6-13, VN-H b11-0, VN-H b11-2, UN-H b11-6, YT-F b12-0, UN-H b11-3, XT-Q c5-1 and XT-Q c5-22, Hyades Sectors XU-O b6-1, CV-O b6-2, ST-Q b5-1, CR-J a10-1, IN-K b8-0, IN-K b8-1, IN-K b8-2, CV-O b6-4, JN-K b8-0 and LI-K b8-0, Arietis Sectors BQ-P b5-0, WJ-R b4-0 and NS-R a5-0, HIPs 9137, 6489, 35633 and 8467, and Pegasi Sectors XQ-J a10-1, JH-U b3-8, LC-U b3-3 and MY-O a7-0.
The defended Invasion system will start Recovery.
Maelstrom Leigong loses four attacks.

Targets updated at 06:40 7th September 3309
HIP 30502 Control 34% — Hadad 14 Ly, 14k strength
Hyades Sector CV-O b6-3 Control 16% — Taranis 21 Ly, empty, 767 strength
HIP 22496 Control 12% *12.6%Indra 22 Ly, 3086 strength
Montioch Control 12% *12.3%Hadad 13 Ly, 26.2k strength
Hyades Sector CV-O b6-5 Control 10% *11.8%Taranis 27 Ly, empty, 359 strength
Tougeir Control 10% *10.9%Oya 16 Ly, 11.4k strength
Kurumanit Control 6% *6.9%Cocijo 20 Ly, 4173 strength
Vasupari Control 6% — Hadad 18 Ly, 8367 strength
HIP 20577 Control 4% *5.3%Indra 18 Ly, 8901 strength
Obamumbo Control 4% *4.7%Indra 19 Ly, 7195 strength
Pegasi Sector NN-S b4-4 Control 4% — Raijin 21 Ly, empty, 906 strength
HIP 22422 Control 2% *3.8%Indra 23 Ly, empty, 629 strength
HIP 21261 Control 2% *3.1%Indra 20 Ly, 4342 strength
Arietis Sector LM-V b2-4 Control 2% *3%Indra 27 Ly, empty, 403 strength
HR 1354 Control 2% *2.3%Indra 18 Ly, 9146 strength
Arietis Sector OH-V b2-5 Control 2% *2.2%Indra 27 Ly, empty, 404 strength
HIP 20679 Control 2% *2.1%Indra 18 Ly, 9063 strength
HIP 113535 Control 2% — Raijin 20 Ly, 4278 strength
HIP 22566 Control 2% — Indra 24 Ly, 1882 strength
HIP 20086 Control 2% — Indra 9 Ly, empty, 31.9k strength
HIP 18075 Control 2% — Thor 21 Ly, 3688 strength

Notes
The Alert report lists predicted attackers which can be stopped this cycle.

Week 39, 24th August 3309​

Report
Thirty-five Alerts repelled at HIPs 21654, 23716, 20019, 3006, 20492, 112595 and 116360, Col 285 Sectors SS-H b11-4, SS-H b11-5, EA-Q c5-8, ZE-P c6-16, ZE-P c6-10, ZE-P c6-15, OC-V d2-96, NG-E b12-3, NG-E b12-4, SH-B b14-5, SM-C b13-0, RM-B b14-2, VS-Z b14-0 and KW-M c7-12, Arietis Sectors JR-V b2-2 and ZP-P b5-1, Trianguli Sector CA-A c14, Cephei Sectors AV-Y b6, AV-Y b0 and AF-A c21, Pegasi Sector OI-S b4-4, Njorog, 65 Kappa Tauri, Luggerates, Muruidooges, Holvandalla, Ebisu and Vistnero.
Forty-six Control evictions at Synuefe OU-D b45-0, Col 285 Sectors OM-J b10-0, SW-D b12-2, AF-P c6-2, US-H b11-1, US-H b11-6, KM-V d2-51, XI-H b11-2, XI-H b11-5, ZE-P c6-7, AF-P c6-0, AF-P c6-1, AF-P c6-17 and YY-F b12-0, 80 Tauri, 78 Theta-2 Tauri, 55 Tauri, HIPs 112219, 9709, 20146, 6570, 6572, 39750, 21008, 21946, 20605, 20815 and 20712, 77 Theta-1 Tauri, Arietis Sectors MX-U c2-17 and JR-V b2-3, Hyades Sectors KX-U d2-94, NT-I b9-0, NT-I b9-1, LY-I b9-4, LY-I b9-5 and OT-I b9-1, 58 Tauri, Trianguli Sector CA-A c15, Patollu, Pegasi Sectors JH-U b3-9, LC-U b3-2 and JC-U b3-6, 92 Sigma-2 Tauri, Hyadum II and 70 Tauri.
Three recaptured systems starting Recovery are Patollu, HIP 21946 and 70 Tauri.
Maelstrom Leigong loses one attack.
 
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System strength statement​

368 units delivered for Col 285 Sector CA-P c6-16 has completed it versus an estimated 366.9; it should be fine to proceed with any deliveries. The actual progress became 100.8556%, yielding a projected strength of 364.9, such that Control system strengths appear to be unchanged.

Operation Redacted​

Everything is as expected thus far; HIP 9016 seems to be enjoying the usual respite interval, HIP 9709 is clear, and Arietis Sector BQ-P b5-0 is due for eviction. Timeline:

HIP 9016​
HIP 9709​
Arietis Sector BQ-P b5-0​
Week 37​
Evicted​
Control​
Control​
Week 38Respite 1ControlControl
Week 39Respite 2EvictedControl
Week 40
Respite 3
Respite 1
Evict
Week 41​
Respite 4?​
Respite 2​
Respite 1​
Week 42​
Alert?​
Respite 3​
Respite 2​
 
Knocking out a Maelstrom's entire outer perimeter - especially at the 20-30 LY ranges - in a couple of weeks appears to be feasible.
It is. I knocked out Trianguli Sector CA-A c15 solo, apart from 176 samples someone else got for me. Took me 3 days but I did it. And I'm an average player at best. Any success I have in this game comes from knowledge, experience and preparation, not skill.

Incidentally, turns out there's plenty of combat in NHSS4 signals in Control systems. It's 1-3 scythes plus a random guard force of either scouts or a random interceptor. And there's 2 waves so lots of combat points in a few minutes. The Scythes at least should count for something. That's not beyond the means of a "combat pilot" or a small wing of 2.

People always think big things and big groups are necessary to make changes but small actions like this give individuals and small groups of people a chance to make a real contribution. I've said all along that lots of individuals or small groups doing small tasks is as effective as a big group doing a big task.

I'd like to have a larger range of activities like that and less boring ones than sampling, although I think I may have developed a kind of Stockholm Syndrome with that and now consider it a form of mining, which I don't mind so much.

There are lots of ways for small numbers to have an effect, they are only limited by their own imagination and people clearing Alerts are not to blame for their lack of it. They should be petitioning fdev for more interesting things to do that that everyone can get involved in, and for combat and reacs and similar to be improved so they work better in Controls. I'll happily back anyone doing so.
15-20 LY Controls
Take them out as well. A bit harder but still doable. If we knock out every Control system down to 15ly and they are not taking any new ones - which is why I asked if they were taking any new ones, in order to deduce if that was possible - that would be a step forward in itself. They will still cause new Alerts up to 25Ly but we can knock them on the head as they appear, until a way can be found to stop them producing Alerts at all, or some way can be found to weaken the inner systems.
Leigong and Thor are partial exceptions as their low density makes it hard for them to reliably get a 15-system perimeter in normal circumstances, and a few targeted control recaptures can push that down ... Indra, conversely, is going to get 5 Alerts a week pretty much whatever happens.
And if we can get that to the point where most of those Alerts are unpopulated, we can maintain it. It's interesting to note that we were told more inhabited systems would be targeted but as we starve them so they can only go to mostly unpopulated we don't give them the choice and it works. Even if a few are populated they will be in the minority, and outside 15Ly are clearable in a reasonable time.

The 15ly perimeter is possible.
 
On the point of Invasions and their best moment to defend, I see that as different for each system, not necessarily awaiting the last moment.
Yes, obviously how long an Invasion lasts for will vary by how many ports it has and where people judge the cut off point for using them to be. I don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise. But who said anything about the last moment? I specifically said the penultimate week is the ideal, before losing the CZs. Penultimate. Which for people who look no further than attacked ground ports means the week the last ground port is attacked, and for everyone else means the last week we have CZs in system regardless of their location.

Otherwise if it was purely about the biggest time buffer possible you would leave them all to their very last week. But that would be making more work than it would ultimately save.
 
It's interesting to note that we were told more inhabited systems would be targeted but as we starve them so they can only go to mostly unpopulated we don't give them the choice and it works
I have to assume that there was a few layers of rephrasing in between what the developer said and what made it into the patch notes that lost the original meaning.

Take them out as well. A bit harder but still doable. If we knock out every Control system down to 15ly and they are not taking any new ones - which is why I asked if they were taking any new ones, in order to deduce if that was possible - that would be a step forward in itself.
Yes, certainly. My expectation is that the answer to "are they taking any new ones" when the attack shell is mostly at 20-25LY will be a somewhat different answer if it's compressed to 15-20 LY, especially since that gives fewer options for keeping them away from too many inhabited systems other than to recapture additional uninhabited systems within the 15 LY shell.

Not that in that scenario temporarily losing an uninhabited system or two and having to retake it would be that big a deal.

Anyway, months away yet, plenty of time for other things to shake up the situation.
 
Victories in Trianguli Sectors KR-W b1-4 and FL-Y b5, Col 285 Sectors PM-B b14-3 and CA-P c6-16, and Hyades Sector XU-O b6-1! The week begins with much more focus on the empty Alert systems first; Nu Guang (12%) leads slightly otherwise. The HIP 25679 port attack will not survive another day, so anyone looking for a six-shards Anaconda rampage needs to be quick!

HIP 30502 (28%) still has some action occurring there; short of bringing it far enough for an independent impromptu finish, I think we need some correspondence here before trying to support it again.

Invasion at 07:10 1st September 3309:
HIP 25679 Invasion 60% *60.5%Taranis 17 Ly, 4 ports, 1960 Ls 0.2g planet attack

Clean-up:
Col 285 Sector RM-B b14-8 Alert 94% — Hadad 21 Ly, empty
Hyades Sector GW-W d1-88 Alert 80% — Taranis 22 Ly, empty
Trianguli Sector EQ-Y b3 Alert 48% *48.6%Taranis 17 Ly, empty
Hyades Sector FB-N b7-3 Alert 32% *32.3%Taranis 15 Ly, empty
Cephei Sector ZE-A c8 Alert 30% — Oya 20 Ly, empty


The talk of perimeter radii has me very much excited to see the outcome of Operation Redacted! I ought to make a little node-graph, but in the meantime I just looked at the Galaxy map, and I think the plans become:
  • If HIP 8887 can attack, leave all three involved systems to become Control again, but perhaps at least guard Patollu. At that point I think everything is isolated enough that they have to get through Arietis Sectors BQ-P b5-2 and KM-W d1-94 first, which are quite fine to stop in their first Control week before they attack, if not stopped as Alert first!
  • If HIP 9016 remains clear, we carve out that entire cone in the direction of Patollu.
  • Either way, I think Arietis Sector NX-U c2-19 also needs to go, so that we take that bridge between our systems and Obassi Osaw.
  • To push beyond that, the next bridge system becomes Arietis Sector NX-U c2-20; slightly harder to hold than NX-U c2-19, but still much easier than the strength we are prepared to hold.
  • Beyond that, we need the Maelstroms-cannot-attack result, and realistically we need also a way to stop the Matrix at Hyades Sector KN-K b8-3 by this time. Otherwise, we would carve the next cone in the direction of Ceti Sector BQ-Y b4, keeping the respite-wave moving so we get no Alerts. Ultimately that shares a surface with HIP 8033 at around 9.3 Ly away from the Maelstrom, with scope for another two-week eviction and continue with a third cone.
 
Incidentally, turns out there's plenty of combat in NHSS4 signals in Control systems. It's 1-3 scythes plus a random guard force of either scouts or a random interceptor. And there's 2 waves so lots of combat points in a few minutes. The Scythes at least should count for something. That's not beyond the means of a "combat pilot" or a small wing of 2.

People always think big things and big groups are necessary to make changes but small actions like this give individuals and small groups of people a chance to make a real contribution. I've said all along that lots of individuals or small groups doing small tasks is as effective as a big group doing a big task.

I'd like to have a larger range of activities like that and less boring ones than sampling, although I think I may have developed a kind of Stockholm Syndrome with that and now consider it a form of mining, which I don't mind so much.

There are lots of ways for small numbers to have an effect, they are only limited by their own imagination and people clearing Alerts are not to blame for their lack of it. They should be petitioning fdev for more interesting things to do that that everyone can get involved in, and for combat and reacs and similar to be improved so they work better in Controls. I'll happily back anyone doing so.
I think you’re missing the point with this. It has always been true that a skilled Combat pilot can contribute to a Control system at a moderate level, although not as much as if they were sampling. However, the problem is that many Combat pilots cannot do this - there are a large amount of casual players who cannot fight a group like this without being able to dock and repair, which is why I’ve always liked station CZs for making AX combat more accessible. It’s not just because of watching numbers tick up that I’m fighting to make Invasions happen - it’s because many, many people will have enjoyable gameplay there that they wouldn’t otherwise.
 
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