If I recall, unpopulated Alerts are 60% the strength of their Control strength, right? Which would mean that taking it back will requre 14,130 samples?
Thargoid invasion - Next target systems?
- Thread starter Aleks Zuno
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I realized that too so I'm going back through and over-filling a bit more just in case. No worries.
As a control, you mean? Somewhere round there, I suppose, although an accurate measurement would be preferable to a guess based on a crude increment.
Victories in HIP 21475, Col 285 Sectors KW-M c7-16, UN-H b11-2, WY-F b12-5 and KM-V d2-52, Arietis Sector MM-V b2-1, and—with HIP 9180—collectively Maelstrom Leigong! Despite being an even-higher-strength week atop most strengths being higher naturally, that was thirty-six systems which are still ahead by seven.
As mentioned a few times, exactly what we do at M. Hadad will depend on asking everyone nicely for ~70% Spire support, although either way we will act to stop HIP 29226 in week 54 and Col 285 Sector PM-B b14-0 week 55. If the party moves to Col 285 Sectors SX-Z b14-0 and VS-Z b14-3, the hope is that those bridge systems will be long since relieved before the time approaches for their next defence!
You have all done brilliantly! With at most two defensible Invasions and one strong bridge we had intended to become a six-week Control cycle regardless, the sheer scale of all those other systems being kept out of action still amazes me weekly.
The present prediction is 13663:
As mentioned a few times, exactly what we do at M. Hadad will depend on asking everyone nicely for ~70% Spire support, although either way we will act to stop HIP 29226 in week 54 and Col 285 Sector PM-B b14-0 week 55. If the party moves to Col 285 Sectors SX-Z b14-0 and VS-Z b14-3, the hope is that those bridge systems will be long since relieved before the time approaches for their next defence!
You have all done brilliantly! With at most two defensible Invasions and one strong bridge we had intended to become a six-week Control cycle regardless, the sheer scale of all those other systems being kept out of action still amazes me weekly.
The present prediction is 13663:
- The fact that the strength models use straight lines with junctions every 5 Ly is very well understood, and is how Control system strikes were so consistently just a fraction of a percent over the amount needed.
- Since week 52 the strengths ought to be considered preliminary due to suspected interference with measurements around 10 Ly, but at minimum it is close and we did supplement it a bit with cleaner 5 Ly tests.
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Hopefully also no further impromptu balance changes now, unless Frontier now intend for the act of Titan isolation to become more difficult as they are reduced in ‘active’ number* with no control sphere to speak of.
I’d prefer to assume that’s not the case, but what is the plan if it turns out to be true?
*And in which case it should be portrayed more clearly than unexpectedly raising difficulty on a Friday, but that might be a little much to hope for without a proper update therefor.
Well—
- Now the Maelstroms are producing six Alerts each.
- Now Titans can attack (see HIP 9016).
Likely! Responding to the facts a bit, my problem with all of that is:
- Now the Maelstroms are producing six Alerts each.
- My entire driving notion has been to produce an outcome where the established rules prevent Alerts; replacing them with other Alerts elsewhere ends that interest.
- Now Titans can attack.
- My entire reason for proceeding within 20 Ly was following a specific test to demonstrate that Titans could not attack; had HIP 9016 been attacked following Operation Redacted, I would never have touched M. Taranis.
Oh jeez. HIP 9016 has a strength of around 28000 too if the INIV tool is accurate. I don't think it's possible to clear that, is it?
Theoretically possible in a week, but not really worth doing every two weeks afterward, I’d say. It’d [possibly] be easier to go back to continuing hedge trimming at further out edges.
… and while I’m technically in favor of making the war feel more like a war, balancing of this kind could and/or should have occurred sooner than when players are beginning to push the system to its limits.
That is as Control; it is possible, but we would be doing only that all week, and the reward is that it attacks HIP 8033 a month from now, then Arietis Sector ZE-R b4-3, then back to HIP 9016.
My problem is that it seems to be too much to ask in return that an achievement feels like an achievement—and more importantly, that fulfilling a mission is not answered with undoing it!
Indeed. Whilst I participated in this Taranis push knowing there was a risk of this happening, doing it only after we’ve cleared two maelstroms feels a bit cheap.
The devs probably never thought players could have the manpower and dedication to completely clear a Titan's control zone, let alone two. Giving Titans the ability to attack was probably the quickest and "cleanest" way to fix this without majorly breaking something else.
Not the most elegant or spectacular solution—there should've been a "last ditch effort" or a "rage state" response to Titans from the beginning. But, being fully honest, from purely a grunts point of view who only knows how to shoot things and how to get past thargoid blockade with 80 souls on board, this war has become a bit boring, more of a background noise instead of a full-on emergency it used to be a year ago. Titans just sitting there doing nothing really isn't appealing to a grunt like me
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I definitely hear you. But that's part of what makes this change frustrating. Having a broader strategic goal ("Isolate a titan") meant there was an achievement to work towards. But if they're not even going to let us have that achievement, there's simply no point in fighting 48 alerts at 10 ly when we can fight them at 25 ly with 30 times less effort.
It was also two of the easier ones, to be fair, and part of that is the result of sampling allowing stockpiling of a progress-providing tool at little more cost than storage space on a fleet carrier. Which was never listed as a means of subverting Thargoid control, yet still worked.
Had combat in periphery systems been required and/or the only means of clearing out a controlled system fully - which would also need said combat actions to be balanced appropriately, rather than mostly worthless for nearly any system unless a large or highly dedicated player group throws themselves behind it - there would have been a lot more planning required even for those ‘easier’ Titans. If it’d have been possible at all, seeing how Swahku even at 85% progress would require an effort capable of clearing a control system at 17 light year distance from 0(more or less, based on available strength measurements using tissue samples).
Especially with individual control strength increased, pushing a Titan like Oya back entirely would have been some serious endeavor, even with sampling available as an option. So… maybe this was a strong reaction to it, but it’s also still the developer’s choice what they do with their game(which does not mean they should be immune to criticism - quite the contrary).
well, that probably sounds strange, but - oh yes, with some optimistic assumptions like that the situation is followed and under the control of developers - I'll try to add some positive note saying that all that have already been said above can result in the conclusion that developers at least do have some pretty defined plans for further development, i.e. something is being prepared...The devs probably never thought players could have the manpower and dedication to completely clear a Titan's control zone, let alone two. Giving Titans the ability to attack was probably the quickest and "cleanest" way to fix this without majorly breaking something else.
Not the most elegant or spectacular solution—there should've been a "last ditch effort" or a "rage state" response to Titans from the beginning. But, being fully honest, from purely a grunts point of view who only knows how to shoot things and how to get past thargoid blockade with 80 souls on board, this war has become a bit boring, more of a background noise instead of a full-on emergency it used to be a year ago. Titans just sitting there doing nothing really isn't appealing to a grunt like me
I really hope that the devs see this and reconsider what it is that a game means to them. And also that they somehow learn to just accept that players are part of the narrative and to roll with it, adjusting their future plans without changing the rules on the fly like this after achievements were made.
Anyone else recall what happened to Powerplay participation numbers once FDev stepped in to make it so that the closest spheres to a capital were immune to flipping?
They're dangerously close to doing the same thing here in so many ways.
Anyone else recall what happened to Powerplay participation numbers once FDev stepped in to make it so that the closest spheres to a capital were immune to flipping?
They're dangerously close to doing the same thing here in so many ways.
The question is how possible is that. I think it speaks to some volume that there might not be room for such adjustments to a pre-planned narrative, certainly not in the short term, given what Frontier has available or simply is willing to put into Elite.
Having said that, could’ve just left Taranis or a few of the Titans as it is and flick them back on at a later update if the narrative required(s) it, since we had no way of actually removing the Titan itself from action even temporarily. (Well, indirectly yes, but you get what I mean, right?)