The codex screenshot for the The Dark Wheel - Which system is it?

True, though did Frontier know that when they put the Zurara in? The information in the novel wasn't published until after the Zurara was found.
I assume they were working with DrewW through that whole process - but then again, I also believe that the Formidine Rift storyline got completely reworked to include The Club/Exodus storyline, so who knows.

Assuming that the Dark Wheel station was in-game back in 2014 - it's possible that they only added it when the Codex was written. Unlike Raxxla and the Zurara which we were told were in-game from the start, I'm not sure we even knew the station existed at all before 3.3
Fair point - I'm operating under my Raxxla theory which is that TDW are the key to accessing it, which could be complete rubbish.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if even back in 2014 Frontier had picked an attractive location for it, though - and really, all they'd have had to do is to have put it in a red giant/supergiant system to start with: so long as the system is undiscovered they could have tweaked the system properties in 3.3 to make it look nicer without anyone knowing.
Update the Stellar Forge on the fly?
But as you say, who knows whether it was even there in 2014.

No - the distance to the orbital station was highly implausible, for a start.
So is the proximity of the TDW base to the star ;)

Alright, I'm convinced it's plausible that it's an in-game screen - but I'm also convinced that the system is permit-locked and you need an invite from TDW to access it.
After all, the Codex does say that there's no point in looking for the Dark Wheel :D
 
Update the Stellar Forge on the fly?
Overrides of major systems (except the primary star) are possible on client patches - e.g. Trappist-1 - so that's not completely impossible.

Alright, I'm convinced it's plausible that it's an in-game screen - but I'm also convinced that the system is permit-locked and you need an invite from TDW to access it.
Unless it's in one of the big permit bubbles, which is quite possible, then that might in some ways make it easier to find. Red giant/supergiant stars are rare, and a permit-locked one would be extremely distinctive.
 
Unless it's in one of the big permit bubbles, which is quite possible, then that might in some ways make it easier to find. Red giant/supergiant stars are rare, and a permit-locked one would be extremely distinctive.
I doubt it will be a single permit-locked system in the Bubble - that's kinda screaming "Look at me!" - so somewhere in the nearby locked sectors (not Col 70) would be enough to keep it sufficiently well hidden (and out of EDSM).
 
My opinion is that FDev is leaving clues to make an otherwise completely impossible search, possible. Extremely unlikely, but possible.

No hints: The chances of finding the star system would literally be 1 in 250 billion. The station could be in any system in the galaxy which would make it completely impossible to find.

Then a wild hint appears. The station is in a system with a gas giant that has 8 or more moons: This cuts the possible number of systems down several orders of magnitude. Still, our original number was 250 billion, so still way too many systems to manually search.

Then, what is in my opinion anyway, a fairly subtle hint, a picture of the station next to a planet, or more precisely, a moon with a giant star in the background. It's only when you combine the previous hint with the realization that the only possible way for the star to appear this big, from the viewpoint of the 8th moon of a gas giant is if it's a giant star. Combine that with the analysis done on the color of the star to match the temperature to possible star types and now we have (again, in my opinion) a viable strategy to actually locate this thing.
And we have found multiple star systems that match that exact arrangement, so we know it's possible, but very rare.

The number of EDSM catalogued star systems that contain a gas giant with 8 or more moons, a giant star of the correct size, temperature, and ratio of size/distance to the gas giant is betwen 30 and 40 depending on the exact criteria. That's galaxy wide. Out of the tens of millions of star systems that are currently catalogued in EDSM.

Granted, we only have a tiny, tiny, tiny part of the galaxy mapped, but the hints, assuming they are hints and we are not just chasing our tails here, have made this search possible in my opinion.

I also like the way Rexus put it:
The thing is, the Codex (our source for this information) also explicitly states that looking for the Dark Wheel is pointless - so it's entirely probable we're NOT supposed to find it by scouring the galaxy for Red Giant stars.

Edit:
Join us next door in the Raxxla thread, where we argue about this all the time :)
 
The thing is, the Codex (our source for this information) also explicitly states that looking for the Dark Wheel is pointless - so it's entirely probable we're NOT supposed to find it by scouring the galaxy for Red Giant stars.
Okay, but let's say that 30 or 40 stars meet the basic criteria in EDSM data so that a system like that could get that screenshot if you brought your own Orbis.

EDSM thinks it knows about 1 in 10,000 systems, not all of them with complete body data (i.e. it's probably underestimating the likelihood of the combination), so that's at least 300,000 possible systems in the galaxy as a whole that it could be in, pretty much all of them completely unknown to explorers. The only one of the many required properties of the system which can be checked without actually visiting it is the stellar class (and maybe not even that if the giant is a secondary star, though that arrangement would be rare) so it's not even as if we can make a list of those 300,000 and start checking them off. Just systems with primary red (super)giant status would probably be at least tens of millions.

Even if it is in an accessible system exactly as described, the chances of it being found on the basis of the current clues is not significantly higher than the chances of it being stumbled across by an explorer who wasn't looking for it in the first place - Frontier can be reasonably confident that it won't happen before they're ready to do something with it, so long as it's not too close to Sol.
 
Okay, but let's say that 30 or 40 stars meet the basic criteria in EDSM data so that a system like that could get that screenshot if you brought your own Orbis.

EDSM thinks it knows about 1 in 10,000 systems, not all of them with complete body data (i.e. it's probably underestimating the likelihood of the combination), so that's at least 300,000 possible systems in the galaxy as a whole that it could be in, pretty much all of them completely unknown to explorers. The only one of the many required properties of the system which can be checked without actually visiting it is the stellar class (and maybe not even that if the giant is a secondary star, though that arrangement would be rare) so it's not even as if we can make a list of those 300,000 and start checking them off. Just systems with primary red (super)giant status would probably be at least tens of millions.

Even if it is in an accessible system exactly as described, the chances of it being found on the basis of the current clues is not significantly higher than the chances of it being stumbled across by an explorer who wasn't looking for it in the first place - Frontier can be reasonably confident that it won't happen before they're ready to do something with it, so long as it's not too close to Sol.
The Codex implies that it's reasonably close to Sol, since it talks about it being an abandoned starport. For me, that puts it within 2,000 LY of Sol, probably less. The odds of somebody randomly stumbling on it vastly increase and a targeted search of R(S)Gs would be feasible, especially with a group of commanders involved, because at that kind of range the EDSM coverage is significantly higher. This leads me to believe the system to be permit-locked, with access becoming available via invitation from TDW (exactly as the Codex describes) - because otherwise it could have been found within the first few months of the game being released and I don't believe FDev would have risked that happening.
 
The Codex implies that it's reasonably close to Sol, since it talks about it being an abandoned starport. For me, that puts it within 2,000 LY of Sol, probably less. The odds of somebody randomly stumbling on it vastly increase and a targeted search of R(S)Gs would be feasible, especially with a group of commanders involved, because at that kind of range the EDSM coverage is significantly higher. This leads me to believe the system to be permit-locked, with access becoming available via invitation from TDW (exactly as the Codex describes) - because otherwise it could have been found within the first few months of the game being released and I don't believe FDev would have risked that happening.
Certainly if it's that close, yes, it would have to be permit-locked, especially since most of the R(S)Gs in that sort of range are catalogue stars and therefore obvious places to go to anyway. Most of the permit locks that close to Sol were only added in the 2.1 release, so if that is the case it's probably somewhere in Regor.
 
If you use a little geometry howmuch could you figure out about the size of the planet/star based on the distance using a cone to the station. Doesn't the station, once identified by type/size, act as a means to determine at least one relative point about the two together?!

You could at least scale so that size of star means size of planet as you adjust. You could then compare to known limits in planet/star sizes to figure out a range of things to look for. It would probably at least exclude some things as I think there are set number ranges for everything and make it easier to think out where to look or not look.

Assuming it's a real picture of something in game and not put together artificially somehow. Details can bring about interesting things when thorough enough. Sadly I am not good enough at math to figure that out. Although there is probably a simple way to do it.

Is there a range for distance of stations to planets also. We could assume it's around the planet shown or if not around a planet very close to the planet shown. That gives some numbers that could be whittled down and would probably reveal something.

I'd take the simplest data first of the things you can most easily absolutely eliminate and work my way down.
 
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I would assume it would be either like normal items or have the 1kls limit to see it if it's like other objects. I don't think anyone knows though.

Were there any other older distances in game? I think there were but I don't know what they are.
 
So, if you found the red star in question, would the DWS show up in the system scan (rumored to be a low power station), or would you need to close enough to see it on ships radar?
Depends on whether it's permit-locked or not.

Assuming it isn't, I'd expect it not to show up at all, unless you've been invited by TDW. There might, however, be a Nav Beacon, since it was allegedly an occupied system - but I'd also expect that not to work unless you have the code from TDW (the same mechanism as the tip-off mission scans).
 
Depends on whether it's permit-locked or not.

Assuming it isn't, I'd expect it not to show up at all, unless you've been invited by TDW. There might, however, be a Nav Beacon, since it was allegedly an occupied system - but I'd also expect that not to work unless you have the code from TDW (the same mechanism as the tip-off mission scans).
Gotta love an unobtainable permit, amirite?

Maybe the DW in Shinrarta can offer a permit from a secret base. Kind of a long shot though, that system has already been scoured multiple times (POIs that only show up within 500m :)).
 
Gotta love an unobtainable permit, amirite?

Maybe the DW in Shinrarta can offer a permit from a secret base. Kind of a long shot though, that system has already been scoured multiple times (POIs that only show up within 500m :)).
Unobtainable? No.
We just don't know how to obtain it.

Gotta figure out what great deed of skill and courage is gonna make TDW's hotline bling.

I'm pretty sure it ain't hauling biowaste out of Shin, even in Open.
 
Unobtainable? No.
We just don't know how to obtain it.

Gotta figure out what great deed of skill and courage is gonna make TDW's hotline bling.

I'm pretty sure it ain't hauling biowaste out of Shin, even in Open.
Well, yeah.
But not knowing how to obtain a permit is the same as not being able to obtain it.
Maybe quadruple elite for getting the DW invite.
 
Well, yeah.
But not knowing how to obtain a permit is the same as not being able to obtain it.
Maybe quadruple elite for getting the DW invite.
But one of them gives you hope, and allows for hundreds of pages of theorycrafting, circular arguments and disappointment - basically the internet in a nutshell.

The invite will be for something obscure, and I predict that it won't be a visible statistic in the Codex. I fully expect the first player to get an invite to say "how the fornicate did I do that?".

Remember, it's a journey we have to take for ourselves.
 
There's a FDev vid floating around somewhere with DB describing the mass distribution curve used by Stellar Forge to RNG planets and moons at relative distance to the host star. Thinking about the Kepler exoplanets mission it's found systems with very large and close gas giants in orbits of less than a week.

So, maybe the station in the Codex image is well within 1000Ls of the host but, can we trust that if it's only a rumour that anyone has ever seen the station? Seems like more reason to dismiss it as an 'artists rendition' but, how did it get in the Codex at all if someone in the PF didn't go find and scan it?

I'm inclined to think (Raxxla, and) the TDW station is right under our noses and FDev have (sensibly) permit locked it to keep us out while they figure out how we're going to find it and add the functionality to the game to support such a 'narrative' and, we're not likely to see this fully unfold until 2024 (2014+10).

Looking at where things went in the Enclave II, and how quickly the three superpowers were able to find corporations to back a new "Meta-Alloys rush" into the Witch Head Nebula, (many barnacle sites are farmed / barren on arrival) it may be inevitable that those on-high decide to hand out exploration permits.

"They" are motivated by greed and they need canon fodder pilots to do the leg work...

[Edit: What exactly are they building with all the MAs anyway? Witch-space carriers?]
 
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My opinion is that FDev is leaving clues to make an otherwise completely impossible search, possible. Extremely unlikely, but possible.

No hints: The chances of finding the star system would literally be 1 in 250 billion. The station could be in any system in the galaxy which would make it completely impossible to find.

Then a wild hint appears. The station is in a system with a gas giant that has 8 or more moons: This cuts the possible number of systems down several orders of magnitude. Still, our original number was 250 billion, so still way too many systems to manually search.

Then, what is in my opinion anyway, a fairly subtle hint, a picture of the station next to a planet, or more precisely, a moon with a giant star in the background. It's only when you combine the previous hint with the realization that the only possible way for the star to appear this big, from the viewpoint of the 8th moon of a gas giant is if it's a giant star. Combine that with the analysis done on the color of the star to match the temperature to possible star types and now we have (again, in my opinion) a viable strategy to actually locate this thing.
And we have found multiple star systems that match that exact arrangement, so we know it's possible, but very rare.

The number of EDSM catalogued star systems that contain a gas giant with 8 or more moons, a giant star of the correct size, temperature, and ratio of size/distance to the gas giant is betwen 30 and 40 depending on the exact criteria. That's galaxy wide. Out of the tens of millions of star systems that are currently catalogued in EDSM.

Granted, we only have a tiny, tiny, tiny part of the galaxy mapped, but the hints, assuming they are hints and we are not just chasing our tails here, have made this search possible in my opinion.

I also like the way Rexus put it:
One potential problem. And that is my favorite system type. Those XX-X X# systems with no extra -#. Those and other similar ones often have weird sun layouts with weird planet arrangements. In fact they can easily have an odd streak of heavy metal or metal rich planets as those are the money makers for those rarer odd system strings. It could be the gas giant is the sun. Or that the sun we are looking for is not the main star!

If it's in one of those systems that could either add system or reduce it pretty heavily. They seem to be the pre exploration update big money systems. My favorite systems are in those setups. 8)

Edit: In fact, exhausting these systems in the bubble would not be that hard. It's a bunch of small sectors put together. The amount of these systems is not as hard to find. Especially with a good exploration ship.

The hard ones to exhaust are the ones out in themiddle of nowhere, or the ones that aren't named that are just 2mass or other odd clusters. Especially loose clusters. Has anyone tried fully exploring the NGC's also. Space hotdogs can have lots of 2mass and other odd systems. Although they have lots of stars in them.
 
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Missions that seemed as though they might get us closer to TDW / Raxxla used to be in the game, but they were removed. I haven't seen any of those random 'incoming mission critical message' things of late either, although I've been hauling repair goods out to the Witch Head Nebula instead of in the bubble.

Is it possible the mission system is getting an overhaul? We know FDev can make cut scenes, but we don't see any in the game? Is that because people just skip them anyway or because they had to build the holo-me first, so they could animate our custom pilots into the scene, starting with a Crew Lounge?

Could that be a good place to begin a legs implementation? Watch your avatar walk in and sit in a booth with your crew and / or wing where you can reach a station services terminal? Lets say they also add cut scenes for the Fed / Imp rank progression, and hand craft missions requiring the new permit unlock?

Or, they could expand on the Comms window animation functionality (think Elite rank ups) to send a cut-scene transmission from each of the engineers, since it's a personal invitation, and come up with some requirement missions that are a little more relevant, interactive or at least flesh out the dialogue.

Maybe that was another reason they had to shift the mission board to it's own server, to add more depth in that part of the mile-wide Milky-puddle? FDev may be stuck between wanting to introduce new stuff and having to build the supporting structures first, while trying to stretch content to retain engagement.

Some of us saw how fast the first Guardian ruin was found, and it didn't seem FDev were ready to move forward with the story quite that soon. Maybe they've taken a more cautionary position on unlocking permits or releasing new stuff in case we break it and a coronal-salt-ejection bombards the forums?

Patience is a virtue? Hopefully FDev have some kind of plan and we'll enjoy the journey.

[Note: Having said all that, Cinder Dock added a new permit unlock during the Enclave.]
 
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