The codex screenshot for the The Dark Wheel - Which system is it?

My opinion is that FDev is leaving clues to make an otherwise completely impossible search, possible. Extremely unlikely, but possible.

No hints: The chances of finding the star system would literally be 1 in 250 billion. The station could be in any system in the galaxy which would make it completely impossible to find.

Then a wild hint appears. The station is in a system with a gas giant that has 8 or more moons: This cuts the possible number of systems down several orders of magnitude. Still, our original number was 250 billion, so still way too many systems to manually search.

Then, what is in my opinion anyway, a fairly subtle hint, a picture of the station next to a planet, or more precisely, a moon with a giant star in the background. It's only when you combine the previous hint with the realization that the only possible way for the star to appear this big, from the viewpoint of the 8th moon of a gas giant is if it's a giant star. Combine that with the analysis done on the color of the star to match the temperature to possible star types and now we have (again, in my opinion) a viable strategy to actually locate this thing.
And we have found multiple star systems that match that exact arrangement, so we know it's possible, but very rare.

The number of EDSM catalogued star systems that contain a gas giant with 8 or more moons, a giant star of the correct size, temperature, and ratio of size/distance to the gas giant is betwen 30 and 40 depending on the exact criteria. That's galaxy wide. Out of the tens of millions of star systems that are currently catalogued in EDSM.

Granted, we only have a tiny, tiny, tiny part of the galaxy mapped, but the hints, assuming they are hints and we are not just chasing our tails here, have made this search possible in my opinion.

I also like the way Rexus put it:
One potential problem. And that is my favorite system type. Those XX-X X# systems with no extra -#. Those and other similar ones often have weird sun layouts with weird planet arrangements. In fact they can easily have an odd streak of heavy metal or metal rich planets as those are the money makers for those rarer odd system strings. It could be the gas giant is the sun. Or that the sun we are looking for is not the main star!

If it's in one of those systems that could either add system or reduce it pretty heavily. They seem to be the pre exploration update big money systems. My favorite systems are in those setups. 8)

Edit: In fact, exhausting these systems in the bubble would not be that hard. It's a bunch of small sectors put together. The amount of these systems is not as hard to find. Especially with a good exploration ship.

The hard ones to exhaust are the ones out in themiddle of nowhere, or the ones that aren't named that are just 2mass or other odd clusters. Especially loose clusters. Has anyone tried fully exploring the NGC's also. Space hotdogs can have lots of 2mass and other odd systems. Although they have lots of stars in them.
 
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Depends on whether it's permit-locked or not.

Assuming it isn't, I'd expect it not to show up at all, unless you've been invited by TDW. There might, however, be a Nav Beacon, since it was allegedly an occupied system - but I'd also expect that not to work unless you have the code from TDW (the same mechanism as the tip-off mission scans).
It maybe permit-locked, in which case we will never get near it unless FDev wants us to.

I also think it is not mission driven, with a grind for clues. If it were, then the missions for it don't exist, or someone has yet to put all the pieces together.

It reminds me of looking for the holy grail. Does it exist? Where is it? Am I pure of heart enough to be worthy of the quest?

o7...
 
Missions that seemed as though they might get us closer to TDW / Raxxla used to be in the game, but they were removed. I haven't seen any of those random 'incoming mission critical message' things of late either, although I've been hauling repair goods out to the Witch Head Nebula instead of in the bubble.

Is it possible the mission system is getting an overhaul? We know FDev can make cut scenes, but we don't see any in the game? Is that because people just skip them anyway or because they had to build the holo-me first, so they could animate our custom pilots into the scene, starting with a Crew Lounge?

Could that be a good place to begin a legs implementation? Watch your avatar walk in and sit in a booth with your crew and / or wing where you can reach a station services terminal? Lets say they also add cut scenes for the Fed / Imp rank progression, and hand craft missions requiring the new permit unlock?

Or, they could expand on the Comms window animation functionality (think Elite rank ups) to send a cut-scene transmission from each of the engineers, since it's a personal invitation, and come up with some requirement missions that are a little more relevant, interactive or at least flesh out the dialogue.

Maybe that was another reason they had to shift the mission board to it's own server, to add more depth in that part of the mile-wide Milky-puddle? FDev may be stuck between wanting to introduce new stuff and having to build the supporting structures first, while trying to stretch content to retain engagement.

Some of us saw how fast the first Guardian ruin was found, and it didn't seem FDev were ready to move forward with the story quite that soon. Maybe they've taken a more cautionary position on unlocking permits or releasing new stuff in case we break it and a coronal-salt-ejection bombards the forums?

Patience is a virtue? Hopefully FDev have some kind of plan and we'll enjoy the journey.

[Note: Having said all that, Cinder Dock added a new permit unlock during the Enclave.]
 
If you use a little geometry howmuch could you figure out about the size of the planet/star based on the distance using a cone to the station. Doesn't the station, once identified by type/size, act as a means to determine at least one relative point about the two together?!
Yes - there's some posts earlier in this thread where people have experimented with that.

Conclusions so far are:
- red dwarf: there's no way you could get an 8-moon gas giant close enough
- red giant: orbit at around 1000Ls gives about the right effect and there are 8-moon gas giants generated in the range.
- red supergiant: same, but you need to be a bit further out

One potential problem. And that is my favorite system type. Those XX-X X# systems with no extra -#. Those and other similar ones often have weird sun layouts with weird planet arrangements. In fact they can easily have an odd streak of heavy metal or metal rich planets as those are the money makers for those rarer odd system strings. It could be the gas giant is the sun. Or that the sun we are looking for is not the main star!
XX-X X# is a shorthand in the galaxy map for XX-X X0-# (they can be searched for in the longhand form)

Because of the way the stellar forge generates star names, all systems above a certain mass (and a much higher proportion of the mid-weight ones than the light-weight ones) are in this format, and the greater mass makes it more likely that there'll be interesting content and plenty of metallic planets.

If the system is a procedural red supergiant, then it will definitely have an XX-X X# form name ... if it's a procedural red giant, then it probably won't unless it happens to be close to the southern edge of a sector.

Missions that seemed as though they might get us closer to TDW / Raxxla used to be in the game, but they were removed. I haven't seen any of those random 'incoming mission critical message' things of late either, although I've been hauling repair goods out to the Witch Head Nebula instead of in the bubble.
They seem to only show up if you spend a while undocked but in your ship in one inhabited system, so it's mining and bounty hunting that tend to be more compatible with them.
 
Missions that seemed as though they might get us closer to TDW / Raxxla used to be in the game, but they were removed. I haven't seen any of those random 'incoming mission critical message' things of late either, although I've been hauling repair goods out to the Witch Head Nebula instead of in the bubble.

Is it possible the mission system is getting an overhaul? We know FDev can make cut scenes, but we don't see any in the game? Is that because people just skip them anyway or because they had to build the holo-me first, so they could animate our custom pilots into the scene, starting with a Crew Lounge?

Could that be a good place to begin a legs implementation? Watch your avatar walk in and sit in a booth with your crew and / or wing where you can reach a station services terminal? Lets say they also add cut scenes for the Fed / Imp rank progression, and hand craft missions requiring the new permit unlock?

Or, they could expand on the Comms window animation functionality (think Elite rank ups) to send a cut-scene transmission from each of the engineers, since it's a personal invitation, and come up with some requirement missions that are a little more relevant, interactive or at least flesh out the dialogue.

Maybe that was another reason they had to shift the mission board to it's own server, to add more depth in that part of the mile-wide Milky-puddle? FDev may be stuck between wanting to introduce new stuff and having to build the supporting structures first, while trying to stretch content to retain engagement.

Some of us saw how fast the first Guardian ruin was found, and it didn't seem FDev were ready to move forward with the story quite that soon. Maybe they've taken a more cautionary position on unlocking permits or releasing new stuff in case we break it and a coronal-salt-ejection bombards the forums?

Patience is a virtue? Hopefully FDev have some kind of plan and we'll enjoy the journey.

[Note: Having said all that, Cinder Dock added a new permit unlock during the Enclave.]
Also no tip off missions in the last month or two. Or is that just me?
 
They seem to only show up if you spend a while undocked but in your ship in one inhabited system, so it's mining and bounty hunting that tend to be more compatible with them.
Now you mention it I don't recall getting them while mining, but I do use an un-populated system.
 
I have not spent a massive amount of time looking for TDW station, compared to looking for Raxxla, because I like to think it is not discoverable without an invite. Either because of a permit, or some other mechanism. I like to think it was TDW who loaned us our ship and "impressing" them, gets us an invite. The question for me, is more how to get an invite? Have there been any thoughts on this? A list of possibilities:

  • Grade 5 with all engineers - Been done, doesn't unlock anything
  • Triple Elite - Many, many cmdrs are, nothing
  • Sell exploration data from every single galactic region. - May have been done. Don't know
  • Obtain every obtainable permit/visit the systems. - Still got the Empire ones to go myself, but sure someone has done this
  • Scan every single tourist beacon. - I don't think this has been done, as I THINK there are still some missing? Don't know if anybody can confirm
  • Be allied with all 3 superpowers and Admiral + King - Sure people will have had this for a short time, but an extended period?
  • Allied with every major corporation - Sure some people may be
  • ALL of the above
  • Hit hidden goals in each different career category
  • Get lucky with a TDW tip-off mission
  • Find Raxxla. This would make TDW the end game, rather than Raxxla, which I quite like the idea of, in a way
Can anybody add to this list? Or remove things from it?
 
The secret is you have to give handsies to MB, DB and his dog at the same time while doing the charleston and singing god save the queen. That is why only people at FDev know where it is! ><

Then you have to travel home along the yellow brick road...
 
Hi all,

tldr; I didn't find it yet, but I think my logic is solid, and I need your help to find the exact system. Also, here's an Imgur gallery of this post.

In the codex, I noticed there's a screenshot that goes with "The Dark Wheel", which appears to be a real station or ship orbiting a real star in-game. To me, this feels like a concrete hint as to the whereabouts of The Dark Wheel. It's not a vague "rumour", it's a real in-game screenshot, so I decided to try to find this station.

About a month ago, someone posted a screenshot of a penal ship, and I noticed it had rotating rings on the back, sorta like ship in the Dark Wheel codex screenshot. From the wiki, I got the list of penal ships, and looked through all of them on eddb.io, to try to find one that appeared to fulfill the following criteria I deduced from the screenshot:
  • Must be orbiting a planet very close to a star
  • Star must be a red-looking class (?)
  • The system must have a penal colony ship in it.
Lo and behold, only one system matched these criteria, and googling it turned up only two discussing mentioning it in passing: Stuelou AT-J c25-24

This system has a couple other interesting properties: It's right on the way to Colonia, about 2/3rds of the way there. It shows a zero population, but has a penal ship. It's immediately adjacent to an inhabited system, Gandharvi. As a bonus, it also has an unnamed gas giant with 8 moons.

So I high-tailed it out there, made it to Penal Colony Omicron, and took some screenshots for comparison. I scanned the 8th moon, found nothing interesting, and scanned the planet beside the ship (there's some geological sites but I didn't find any surprises. I didn't search all of them though.)

I made a gallery for your comparison here: Source: https://imgur.com/gallery/iQ0RFpQ


Conclusion: This is not the system in the screenshot, but it's the right idea.

By comparing the codex screenshot and my screenshots of Penal Ship Omicron, I can conclude the following:
1) The star we're looking for needs to be much redder than the K-type star in this sector. What's a redder star class?
2) The relative scale of the planet and star are wrong. Either the planet needs to be much smaller, or the star must be much larger than the ones I found in this sector. (The planet is much smaller in the codex screenshot than the ones in mine, meaning either the distances are off, or the relative scale of the two is different. I don't believe the orbits of the planets and station would change that much.)
3) The penal colony ship is the wrong type of ship. So what type of ship matches the codex screenshot?

Any feedback on these points would be greatly appreciated! Let's try to keep this thread on-topic and focus on concrete evidence as much as possible.

Thanks,
CMDR Hax Murderer

T tauri type m,
-cooler than m type
-redder
-has icy bodies close

also, they havent condensed yet so they are large.
and! they have giant plumes of fire that launch outwards,...
i point this out since the bottom right of the codex picture seems to be edited.
perhaps to hide a star or nebula or maybe a fire plume from a t tauri m type.

t tauri is "proto" on star type in case anyone wants to look.
 
i should also add that T tauri have multiple types, K, M etc...
best way to tell is turn the red/orange/yellow into percentages.
codex pic seems to be
65-70%red
15-20% orange
5-10% yellow

i think adding that with a time frame will be a good starting point.

someone else mentioned 312ly as max distance for TDW to be from tau ceti.
but, who knows.
 
I think the trick can be that those cold stars can be from being farther out. It may not be the main star. But it could be around the 8th planet from a star. There are many of those special systems it could be hiding in. And being an exploration guild it would make sense if it's in an odd location. Unless it's as old as the raxxla references.
 
Dark wheel is meant to be clandestine. So why put your station in a system with a T-Tauri star, which are magnets for jump-honk explorers? (speaking as one myself, when I can't be bothered to full scan)
 
Long-time thread lurker here; finally back in the bubble after a long exploration trip and a break from the game.

I checked out HD 110813 tonight. S-type star. Had two gas giants, each with 9 moons. Checked out the 7th and 8th (binary) of the first giant and the 8th and the 9th of the second giant. First giant was about the right distance to match the screenshot.

Didn't see any station, but made me think that approaching the moon from the dark side is the way to go --- if the station is truly dark then the only way to see it may be as a silhouette against the bright star as you get close.

Another oddity --- I previously had noted HIP 109089 as a good candidate, as EDSM showed it to have a gas giant w/ 8th moon at about the right distance (~3,000 ls from a 139 solar radii C star): https://www.edsm.net/en/system/bodies/id/2489592/name/HIP+109089
However, arriving there the system is totally different from EDSM. The star is C type, but all the planets are different. There is no gas giant with 8 moons like EDSM says.

This has me pessimistic about using EDSM...what if FDEV changed the planets in a C, S, M, or other red-giant/supergiant system and EDSM hasn't been updated? Should we consider re-mapping every suitable giant star type within the bubble?
 
Any way you jumped into the wrong system?
I triple-checked I had the HIP number correct. Kept looking between game screen and EDSM. I thought I took a screenshot...but it must not have worked unfortunately. Might try and jump back for my own sanity. Or stop at a station and see if my market-connector update goes through.
 
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